88 replies to this topic

[john]

there may have been a winery somewhere but that area is definitely Mormon Island. Too many houses, where I was was the center of town.

There was a grove of trees and some steps to a house about half a mile away that could have been a winery.

[4thgenFolsomite]

there may have been a winery somewhere but that area is definitely Mormon Island. Too many houses, where I was was the center of town.

There was a grove of trees and some steps to a house about half a mile away that could have been a winery.

My info comes from Bureau of Reclamation. They did a fly over. Mormon Island was one mile away. They are going to issue info in the next day or so.

[john]

I find that unlikely but we will see.

[ducky]

Is the big round thing with a huge piece of concrete on top an old well? It's close to the stacked rock foundation. If so, probably best to not get too close to it.

I also heard John clearly say on the video not to pick up any artifacts from the site.

[Bill Z]

Is the big round thing with a huge piece of concrete on top an old well? It's close to the stacked rock foundation. If so, probably best to not get too close to it.

I also heard John clearly say on the video not to pick up any artifacts from the site.

So what's considered an artifact? The 2 old Xmas trees someone dumped in the one house or wine cellar.
The tire on the other side of the hill.

I wish I would have known about this last weekend as I'm sure some of the mud I was walking thru would have been hard ground before the last 2 days of rains.

[jafount]

So what's considered an artifact? The 2 old Xmas trees someone dumped in the one house or wine cellar.
The tire on the other side of the hill.

I wish I would have known about this last weekend as I'm sure some of the mud I was walking thru would have been hard ground before the last 2 days of rains.

As an FYI, "old Christmas trees" and tires are routinely place into reservoirs like Folsom as habitat for the bass population. In many reservoirs up and down the Sierras you'll see these kinds of things when the water drops.

[Bill Z]

As an FYI, "old Christmas trees" and tires are routinely place into reservoirs like Folsom as habitat for the bass population. In many reservoirs up and down the Sierras you'll see these kinds of things when the water drops.

Ah, bass habitat, a good excuse to throw junk in the water.

Hmm, acres upon acres of nothing and two old trees and one tire provide bass habitat for the lake. I don't think so.

[john]

Ah, bass habitat, a good excuse to throw junk in the water.

Hmm, acres upon acres of nothing and two old trees and one tire provide bass habitat for the lake. I don't think so.

You only see 2 trees. Boy Scouts collect christmas trees every year and toss them in to the lake for the fish. The trees eventually rot and naturally erode.

[jafount]

Ah, bass habitat, a good excuse to throw junk in the water.

Hmm, acres upon acres of nothing and two old trees and one tire provide bass habitat for the lake. I don't think so.

When I've done it, I've usually done it with my bass club. You have around 12 - 15 $40,000+ bass boats each usually with two or three trees/tires in them, because nobody wants to damage their boat and around 10,000 surface acres to find a spot. So in total, you and up with, lets just say, 50 trees/tires.

So, if you had 10,000 boats out there, each boat would have one acre to drop three trees and two or three tires . Gosh, it would look like a forest/junk yard having three trees and three tires spread out over a 44,000 square foot acre! You DO make a great point.

I guess the more likely scenario is as you think. Some hooligan waited until the water was so low, they could walk up the earth dam, down the other side, out close enough to the area just to throw these things out there before the Christmas tree season was over --OR-- they were really bad litterbugs and wanted to pollute the lake, so they put these three items into their boat one summer...you know...because they were sitting around the house... and they dumped 'em off the boat to get rid of them.

Brilliant deduction. Maybe you should leave the "thinking" to other people.

[tessieca]

Has anyone been out there since the rain? Can you still see the winery or town?

[ducky]

As an FYI, "old Christmas trees" and tires are routinely place into reservoirs like Folsom as habitat for the bass population. In many reservoirs up and down the Sierras you'll see these kinds of things when the water drops.

Yes, they are artifacts left over from the Ye Olde Christmas Tree Recycling Program to answer Bill Z's question. Every year thousands of Christmas trees (what many now inaccurately call Holiday trees) were sacrificed by the townspeople and thrown into the lake in the hopes the next fishing season would be a good one. You used to be able to see hundreds of them at the bottom of Dyke 8 (inaccurately known as Folsom Point now).

Little did those poor people know that all the trees would attract would be Bay Area transplants and there would be very little water left over for the fish.

[MSgt]

I've amended the article to note not to take anything... I'll amend to say not to touch anything as well. It's important to note that it really is an archeology site and even moving them is a bad idea, because once things are moved, archeologists can't understand the context of it...

Ok, someones got to ask this so I will - If I found something (say an old bottle or nails) and I can't take it. What do I do with it? Leave it where I found it to be covered by the lake again? What am I missing here?

[4thgenFolsomite]

Ok, someones got to ask this so I will - If I found something (say an old bottle or nails) and I can't take it. What do I do with it? Leave it where I found it to be covered by the lake again? What am I missing here?

Yes, you are supposed to leave any artifacts, including old bottles or nails, where you find them. These are diagnostic materials that, when analyzed together with the history of the site, would tell the archaeological information. This site, and others under the lake, will probably eventually be studied scientifically as historic sites. This is often done when lakes are dewatered. PG&E has done conducted archaeological digs on numerous occasions over the years when they drop water levels in reservoirs. Check out Butt Lake near Lake Almanor and you may find information on that dig, since materials from the dig were placed at the local museum in Chester. The history of these sites belongs to all of us and when any one picks up these seemingly worthless materials to take home for their own amusement, they are lost to archaeologists. Usually when someone takes them home, they put them on a shelf in the garage for a while and then forget about them. As soon as they leave the site, they do become worthless, but at their original location, they provide information on time of construction, local trade, styles of construction, ethnicity, etc. Having the site covered by the lake is actually the safest way to protect it. I know its very tempting to want to take something home. I think its almost human nature, but try to resist the urge.

[Bill Z]

Has anyone been out there since the rain? Can you still see the winery or town?

I was out there last weekend. Because of the rains, what had been hard cracked mud was now soft. But the water was even lower than what the pictures showed on myfolsom.

[MSgt]

Yes, you are supposed to leave any artifacts, including old bottles or nails, where you find them. These are diagnostic materials that, when analyzed together with the history of the site, would tell the archaeological information. This site, and others under the lake, will probably eventually be studied scientifically as historic sites. This is often done when lakes are dewatered. PG&E has done conducted archaeological digs on numerous occasions over the years when they drop water levels in reservoirs. Check out Butt Lake near Lake Almanor and you may find information on that dig, since materials from the dig were placed at the local museum in Chester. The history of these sites belongs to all of us and when any one picks up these seemingly worthless materials to take home for their own amusement, they are lost to archaeologists. Usually when someone takes them home, they put them on a shelf in the garage for a while and then forget about them. As soon as they leave the site, they do become worthless, but at their original location, they provide information on time of construction, local trade, styles of construction, ethnicity, etc. Having the site covered by the lake is actually the safest way to protect it. I know its very tempting to want to take something home. I think its almost human nature, but try to resist the urge.

but... this isn't like it was ancient Egypt. This stuff is only a little over a hundred years old. We have extensive written historical data from the era.
When a lake is dewatered the bottom is usually scraped by bulldozers and the material is usually dumped miles away. Just seems to me that the alarm about taking nails and bottles is just a little overkill. Are you telling me no one has officially dug up around Mormon Island? Why arn't they out there now?
It would be fun to find a couple old coins or something. I hear what you are saying but seems like overkill to me. If my grandson and I went out there with a metal detector and found an old coin - it still doesn't make sense to me that I would have to leave it in the mud.