88 replies to this topic

[EDF]

I can understand the frustration with the economy being the way that it is right now. But it seems all to convenient that when we were making hand over fist in the private sector and buying all of our toys no one really cared what these public employees were making. Now that we have seen a decrease in our income due to the economic down fall we all want to beat down the public sector. These are the men and women that while they are making decent money and continue to do so, they weren’t raking in the big money like the private sector that caused an inflated economy through the housing market that had no structure to fall back on.
Someone also gave the analogies that “Unlike any private sector purchase, as a taxpayer, I cannot shop for best price or best value for my money.” To this person I say you may want to talk to you Realtor because your disclosures when you bought your house should have told you about the schools and other amenities in the area. I know when I bought my house I checked to see where my kids would be going to school, what the crime rate and response times for the police where and what type of fire protection I could expect. These things were important to me and I understand that in order for them to work properly I, as a taxpayer, need to pay for their upkeep and ability to attract quality employees to meet the standards that brought me to the area.
I think that we need to stop fighting amongst ourselves with this mentality that I’m not making as much so you should have to suffer also. It seems all we are doing is perpetuating the problem. If we decrease everyone’s pay and the prices of goods remain the same no one will be able to afford anything and this economy will continue to fall. I mean look at how well the furlough of State Employees worked out. All they managed to do was close the doors of small businesses in Downtown Sacramento ( downtown was a ghost town on furlough days) and put more people out of work and relying an state assistance therefore increasing the states problem up with funds. In order for us to get out of this someone needs to make money and they need to be willing to spend that money otherwise we are all doomed.

Dude....

sorry your arguments don't work... so when you moved here you had no clue other than reports you read about response times and school's scores...

my friend... a lot of us, for a long time have complained about the costs of this city "guv-ment"...

A litle history for youi.... One of the reasons this town is as nice as it is... is because of community involvement of the people... especially in the early 90's...that's why you see so many parks and trails here... it wasn't because the city hall crowd and developers were so kind to put them in... these were the result of overflow crowds at city council and planning meetings and putting in some candidates that listened...

The problem is that government workers now have unions that use their dues money for elections to promote their agenda and it's not giving you and me better service... it's about their pay and benefits... plain and stinking simple... from the schools to police and fire...

Government workers make more and do less than the private sector... do you know anyone at INTEL that puts in less than 40 hours a week there...?

Where is it written in the constitution that a public employee can retire after 30 years and make between 85-100% of their salary for the remainder of their life no matter what the economy does... so yea... I'm big time in favor seeing what all these people make...

I think there is going to be revolution and those fat retirements may also be trimmed.... BECAUSE WE CAN'T AFFORD IT... no one bothered to replenish my savings when the economy went down... I don't think "guv-ment" worker bees should have it any different...

Just sayin...

[tgianco]

Where is it written in the constitution that a public employee can retire after 30 years and make between 85-100% of their salary for the remainder of their life no matter what the economy does... so yea... I'm big time in favor seeing what all these people make...

I think there is going to be revolution and those fat retirements may also be trimmed.... BECAUSE WE CAN'T AFFORD IT... no one bothered to replenish my savings when the economy went down... I don't think "guv-ment" worker bees should have it any different...

Just sayin...

It's not in the Constitution, but Karl Marx wrote something along those lines.

[4thgenFolsomite]

California Cities and Counties Mandated to Disclose Public Employees' Salaries.
http://www.govtech.c...articles/767984
cities and counties now must send this data to the state, starting next fall, for public disclosure.

[MikeinFolsom]

no one bothered to replenish my savings when the economy went down... I don't think "guv-ment" worker bees should have it any different...

Figured it was something along those lines........I DON'T HAVE IT....SO NO ONE ELSE SHOULD EITHER. I'M TAKING ALL MY TOYS AND GOING HOME.

[JRudi]

Like I said, all of Folsom's salaries are on the net.

MikeinFolsom: Not exactly. Not until just very recently were the salaries of the top managers posted on the city's website. And, although some of the benefits are now listed, not all are.

I believe this was a ploy by the city to give the appearance of being transparent, but some of the big numbers are not being revealed. As in the case of the city of Bell, some of the top managers were being provided "hidden benefits" that could be converted to cash. I'm suspect the same is occuring in Folsom. One way of discovering these additional benefits is to do a public records request and ask for copies of employment contracts and W2 forms going back a few years. I'm sure you'll find that some of the top managers are converting the equivalent of two or three months a year of vacation time to cash, as well as receiving pay for being "on call" on holidays (although they are salaried employees).

I suspect the more you dig the uglier it will become.

[EDF]

no one bothered to replenish my savings when the economy went down... I don't think "guv-ment" worker bees should have it any different...

Figured it was something along those lines........I DON'T HAVE IT....SO NO ONE ELSE SHOULD EITHER. I'M TAKING ALL MY TOYS AND GOING HOME.

The difference dude is that taxpayers don't support me... I don't think "public sector" employees should get it any better...

We can't afford as many of you as you'd like...

So let's start with police and fire services... you gonna tell me there is no "fat" in there...?

We know those jobs are kush jobs... my oldest son is going to paramedics school so he can get a leg up in his app to a fire dept... and you know... sadly he's doing it mainly for the money...

[irish1]

The difference dude is that taxpayers don't support me... I don't think "public sector" employees should get it any better...

We can't afford as many of you as you'd like...

So let's start with police and fire services... you gonna tell me there is no "fat" in there...?

We know those jobs are kush jobs... my oldest son is going to paramedics school so he can get a leg up in his app to a fire dept... and you know... sadly he's doing it mainly for the money...

I'm interested in hearing what your opinion of 'kush...' is, within the realm of those jobs you pointed out?? I'm very curious where you came to that opinion or belief.

As for your son choosing a career as a Fire Dept. Paramedic, I congratulate him on his desire and willingness to serve the public. I wish him much luck, and a meaningful career.

[doj_gal]

The difference dude is that taxpayers don't support me... I don't think "public sector" employees should get it any better...

We can't afford as many of you as you'd like...

So let's start with police and fire services... you gonna tell me there is no "fat" in there...?

We know those jobs are kush jobs... my oldest son is going to paramedics school so he can get a leg up in his app to a fire dept... and you know... sadly he's doing it mainly for the money...

I get the fact that tax payers pay for salaries...(I've heard that sentence be quoted every time...blah) however how is it any different with private industry? If I buy a pair of shoes and the owner of the company is taking nearly all the profits and essentially using slave labor to make and sell the shoes I would also like to know that. I would be more likely to purchase from companies that give back to the community and pay decent wages....but how do any of us really know that unless documentation is provided....talk is cheap...black and white is the only way to know if you are getting the best item for your $....cost and retail can differ largely and for the most part very few know how to get the best deal for their hard earned cash.

To think that a police officer or fire technician ESPECIALLY paramedic has a easy, simple job you are really blind or extremely mislead by individuals whom severely misrepresent those fields. They are overworked and while I do believe that are fairly compensated for risking their lives daily....I do not think that any "fat" could be trimmed from their already skeleton departments.

It's always greener on the other side....What really needs to happen is more restrictions on welfare and social services and the unemployment needs to be abolished. Removing all the freebees and safety nets and make people accountable for their financial future. Not spend yourself into thousands of dollars in debt and not have a reserve especially if you are in fields that have large ups and downs such as real estate. Live below you means and not at it.

However, nothing upsets me more than someone I went to high school with. She is on my facebook and currently on unemployment...Funny thing though instead of hitting the pavement and getting a job she facebooks aaaaaaalllllllll day and goes on weekend trips EVERY WEEKEND....So we as a society/employers are paying for her to do nothing all day and take weekend trips. Meanwhile little ol' state worker/full time student me is busting my hump to make myself and my family the money we need and making myself a better candidate for future employment. I would NEVER sit and collect money especially for two years and make (0) attempts to be a contributing member to our society.
However, people blame the individuals trying to provide services our state needs and members that generate revenue (police).

[knowfolsom]

Irish1,
Thank you for your service to our city. I know several police officers and fire fighters here in Folsom and they earn every penny they make. It is a job I would not want to do day in and day out. With that being said, I am irritated that the chief of police makes over $300,000 a year in salary and benefits and took a $12,000 pay raise when the street officers took pay cuts.

Irish1 how do you feel about the Chief making over 3 times what the street officers make, or do you have to "plead the 5th" on that. I have seen few people on here question his salary, which amazes me. I have had the displeasure of meeting him on a few occassions and can tell you that everyone that I know that "knows" him, definitely thinks he's overpaid.

[EDF]

Here! I found this for you at the FCUSD website in the Human Resource Department. Take a look. It's all here. <a href="http://www.fcusd.org...department.htm" target="_blank">http://www.fcusd.org...artment.htm</a>

I looked at that site... thanks for posting it...

Looks like a lot of folks in "academia" make bank... I don't know of any profession that gives you a raise for just completing a new set of courses...

How about a results based system...

and lastly on this post... I noticed the starting salary for an intern is like what $35,000 plus some change... for 9 months...? extrapolate that out to a 12 month job and you get $46,666 plus benefits...?

You gonna tell me that some of these administrators aren't over paid... and now we'll have a Taj Majal admin building that will further entrench this bunch of educrats...

[MikeinFolsom]

EDF, you're losing credibility on this one. It seems like you have a beef with EVERYONE that is sitting a little better than you are. Is that it?

I have a really good idea. Spend some time with your public employees. Go into their departments and look for the fluff and the "fat" as you like to call it. Do it. I challenge you. Sitting on the sidelines and lobbing grenades is very out of date. Come up into mainstream society and look around.

I think you get most of your information from the news or some crappy website you like to frequent. I'm a public employee. I'd LOVE to be working in the system that you think is in place for types like us.

You bring up the Intel employee. I have a few friends that cashed in stock options several years ago that made them instant millionaires. They put in their time, did their jobs, and got paid. Yep, they did work over 40 hours a week. For a looooooong time. They did their time, and reaped the benefits. I have neighbors that worked for E Trade. Did their time, put in the hours, cashed out when times were good, and now own two houses in the very tropical locations.

The list can go on and on and on and on. You seem to like to. Let me know when the public employee is going to cash out his stock options and become an instant millionaire. You're very hung up on the retirement system. 30 years of being a cop or fireman and retiring with 90% of their highest income. Decent if you were able to promote throughout the ranks during your career. If not, 90% of $60,000.00 All of the sudden doesn't sound so much, does it? Oh wait a second......show me a policeman or firefighter getting hired at the age of 20 now a days. I'll show you 10 more getting hired in their late 20's or early 30's. Most are still retiring at the age of 50 because at that age it is almost impossible to carry someone down a ladder should the need arise, or chase a guy over several fences, if need be.

So that same guy is retiring at age 50 with 20 years of service. That would net him 60% of his income in retirement. 60% of $60,000.00 sure changes the picture now.....doesn't it? All I ask is......if you want to sound educated on an item, educate yourself before you hop on your soapbox and start singing your melodic tunes.

[EDF]

EDF, you're losing credibility on this one. It seems like you have a beef with EVERYONE that is sitting a little better than you are. Is that it?

I have a really good idea. Spend some time with your public employees. Go into their departments and look for the fluff and the "fat" as you like to call it. Do it. I challenge you. Sitting on the sidelines and lobbing grenades is very out of date. Come up into mainstream society and look around.

I think you get most of your information from the news or some crappy website you like to frequent. I'm a public employee. I'd LOVE to be working in the system that you think is in place for types like us.

You bring up the Intel employee. I have a few friends that cashed in stock options several years ago that made them instant millionaires. They put in their time, did their jobs, and got paid. Yep, they did work over 40 hours a week. For a looooooong time. They did their time, and reaped the benefits. I have neighbors that worked for E Trade. Did their time, put in the hours, cashed out when times were good, and now own two houses in the very tropical locations.

The list can go on and on and on and on. You seem to like to. Let me know when the public employee is going to cash out his stock options and become an instant millionaire. You're very hung up on the retirement system. 30 years of being a cop or fireman and retiring with 90% of their highest income. Decent if you were able to promote throughout the ranks during your career. If not, 90% of $60,000.00 All of the sudden doesn't sound so much, does it? Oh wait a second......show me a policeman or firefighter getting hired at the age of 20 now a days. I'll show you 10 more getting hired in their late 20's or early 30's. Most are still retiring at the age of 50 because at that age it is almost impossible to carry someone down a ladder should the need arise, or chase a guy over several fences, if need be.

So that same guy is retiring at age 50 with 20 years of service. That would net him 60% of his income in retirement. 60% of $60,000.00 sure changes the picture now.....doesn't it? All I ask is......if you want to sound educated on an item, educate yourself before you hop on your soapbox and start singing your melodic tunes.

I don't know any firemen or cops making the low bucks you are talking about... but I have a friend who retired after 33 years working for the state... made 99,000 per year... calculated by multiplying 2.5% of her annual salary times the number of years, 33, equals $81,675...oh and she cashed in about 2 months of vacation to bump up her last years' salary which gave her a last year salary of $115,500 x's 2.5% = 2,887.5 X 33 years = $95,2875... IN RETIREMENT... she's only 56... oh and we'll throw in the all inclusive health, dental and eye care...

Oh and she's gonna go get one of those nice "retired annuitant" gigs... you know paying close to what she earns now and then her monthly retirement on top of that...? you know she'll make bank but they won't throw in any benefits because she's already making that... so.. you gonna tell me that "guv-ment" workers aren't over paid...?

How much did she put in..? being self employed I had to pay into SS 15%... 7.5 of the employee side and 7.5 for being my own boss...

So... get back to me with some numbers Mike... We just can't afford it anymore... it's not sustainable... we're broke as a state and a country...

You public employees must feel the same pain we do... when times are bad...

to quote Obama.... "It's all about fairness"....

Just sayin...

[MikeinFolsom]

EDF, again, I urge you to look over the city web page to find salaries of the cops and firemen. It isn't as ridiculous as you think. A few years ago ago on this forum it was being discussed just that fact....Folsom people were below the current trend. Always have been, always will be.

Current PERS rules don't allow for the cash out of vacation to be included in your highest year criteria to determine your retirement income. Unless they retired awhile ago, I don't think that part is true.

Retired people coming back as paid employees. There is a problem with someone getting a job after they retire from their first gig? And being paid a decent salary minus benefits? I know Air Force pilots putting in 30 years and then getting out and getting a private job as a pilot, making more than they did while in the service. That is bad? I would think you would find it beneficial for the state to employ a person and have to pay salary only. You seem to complain about the benefits package employees receive. In this case, the returning employee is collecting only salary. So what's the gripe on that? Oh, because they're making money on their retirement as well as currently being employed? So in your version, once you retire, if you wish to work again, you have to choose a completely different field of employment so it doesn't look like you're double dipping on the knowledge and skills you have developed over the years? Good train of thought on that one.

I agree, we all need to feel the pain. Flip the tables. How about when it is prosperous? You going to cough up some of your hard earned bucks to the public sector? They're usually in multi-year contracts that don't provide for bonuses, salary increases, etc. When you get your sabbatical and are off for several weeks out of the year, should you forfeit your salary to the public worker because they aren't getting one?

Maybe there was a problem with your budgeting skills while times were good. Whereas you were probably raking in the dough hand over fist, the public guy was steadily making their salary. No huge increases. No bonuses. Just regular 'ol salary. Times started going bad, and you didn't scale back your spending. The public guy didn't have to.....they didn't have the ability to spend crazy money. It wasn't there in the first place. Now times are bad, and so is YOUR pay. Doesn't mean the public guy caused it. It means you failed to plan, so you planned to fail. So misery loves company and everyone should be in your boat paddling up a river without a paddle?

I'm just not seeing your logic when you say everyone should feel the same pain. It's usually the people that pace themselves that are going to win the race. If you EVER want to compare highest yearly salary, let me know.

[texson]

Wait... i like EDF's idea. When the economy was booming i made the same salary i do now (yes im public safety), you could care less what i made. Now when the economy has slumped you want to reach in my wallet and grab a few bucks. (Just to even the score...) So im sure you won't mind when the economy is booming again if i stop by your house with hat in hand and ask you to give me some of your boom dollars? Don't want to do ya? BTW, you said before your son is going to "paramedics" school, which, by the way is paramedic school, only on the context of getting in on the good salary and benefits. Well my friend, those days are over, i surely hope he does his research, you just can't get your paramedic card and walk through the door anymore! And "if" he gets a job, will you show the same disdain and nastiness toward him that you show toward all of the other "guv-ment" people, P.S. he will also be a union member at that point. I only wish that if he gets a job you may understand a little better what it is all about. oh, and by the way, the guys who get into the job for pay and benefits and not for the right reasons are quickly rooted out and cast aside. Hope your boy reevaluates his true motivations.

[EDF]

Wait... i like EDF's idea. When the economy was booming i made the same salary i do now (yes im public safety), you could care less what i made. Now when the economy has slumped you want to reach in my wallet and grab a few bucks. (Just to even the score...) So im sure you won't mind when the economy is booming again if i stop by your house with hat in hand and ask you to give me some of your boom dollars? Don't want to do ya? BTW, you said before your son is going to "paramedics" school, which, by the way is paramedic school, only on the context of getting in on the good salary and benefits. Well my friend, those days are over, i surely hope he does his research, you just can't get your paramedic card and walk through the door anymore! And "if" he gets a job, will you show the same disdain and nastiness toward him that you show toward all of the other "guv-ment" people, P.S. he will also be a union member at that point. I only wish that if he gets a job you may understand a little better what it is all about. oh, and by the way, the guys who get into the job for pay and benefits and not for the right reasons are quickly rooted out and cast aside. Hope your boy reevaluates his true motivations.

You bring up good points... My son has told me he wants to get into fire and to get there he's gonna have to be a paramedic just to get an "entre"... and even then he's got an inside because one of his close friends grew up with a captain in one of the fire districts.. not sure which one.. and his girl friend is an RN who also has an in one of the districts...

However in talking with both of them.. especially my son... he's into it for the money.. oh don't get me wrong...he likes the excitement and I'm sure he'll get the Adrenalin rush from responding to a call.. but he's told me more than once he likes the $$$ that come with it... and a lot of time off...and the benefits...

My point is that my son has told me that they have hundreds of applications for a few jobs and that the only way he's gonna get in is to complete the paramedic school... stay in great physical shape and hope that his "connection" comes through...

Which brings me to the point... with that many people waiting to work in the fire department... isn't there a thing called supply and demand..? if we have so many guys willing to take those jobs... you'd think "prices" would come down... prices by the way being "salaries"...

just sayin...