25 replies to this topic

[NRB]

I copied this hear because it directly affects your neighborhood. Please feel free contact me regarding this matter.

-Nicole

Dear Folsom residents,

As Secretary for FIDO Inc. I have taken it upon myself to keep you informed via this forum on our progress to bring a dog park to Folsom. We have had discussions on the benefits of dog parks for our canine companions, their owners and neighbors alike. I have done my best to answer any questions or concerns any of you might have had regarding this issue. Now for an important update.

FIDO, after working for over two years, and the dog park ad hoc committee have finally agreed on a site for Folsom's first dog park. The ad hoc committee will be submitting it's recommendation for approval at the June 1st Parks and Rec meeting (7pm in the City Council Chambers).

A dog park was first suggested to the Parks and Rec Dept. in April of 1997. In October of 1997 the P&R Dept. approved a portion of BT Collins for development of a dog park. They held a public forum in February of 1998 and after some vocal opposition, tabled it. It was brought back up in 99/2000 this time with Catlin Park as the propossed site. But after both public opposition and loss of funding the dog park was again shelved. Seven years! It has taken seven years to get back to square one!

After touring and evaluating over 12 potential sites we have returned full circle and come back to BT Collins park. It was the best location seven years ago and still the best location today. The reason this site was chosen was because it provides something no other site did...mature shade trees and a somewhat reasonable cost. Without proper shade any dog park in Folsom will be unusable during the high heat of a Summer day!

The June 1st P&R meeting will also serve as a public forum for anyone who wishes to speak on the matter, both for and against. FIDO will be out this Saturday, going door to door, canvassing the area to inform residents of the potential dog park, educate them about the benefits of a dog park and to get a feel for the oppossition we may face.

It is our sincerest hope that after seven years people are more receptive to the idea of a dog park. It is important to remember that a dog park is essentially a fenced area where dogs (and owners alike) can get the exercise and socialization they need which in turn makes them better pets and neighbors. We are not taking over the park! We will be utilizing a portion of the park that is currently undeveloped!

If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to respond here or PM me. I will try to be as honest and forthcoming as possible with my answers. I have dedicated many hours to this cause because I believe it would be a great amenity to our community. I hope the dog parks time has come and I hope those of you out there that will utilize such a park will come and show us your support on June 1st.

Thank you for your time,

Nicole Brown
Secretary, FIDO Inc
www.fidoinc.org

[bigsheldy]

dog park?

[Terry]

Will your group be providing dog waste pickup services for this park?

City maintenance would have enough to do with regular park maintenance duties - mowing, trash pickup, etc., but they shouldn't have to pick up after your dogs. I'm sure most park users will pick up after their own, but who will enforce if they don't (and there will be those who don't).

I think most residents would support this if they felt it wouldn't increase normal park maintenance costs. And part of the promotion for this dog park should be that signs be placed at other city parks directing dog owners to go to that park. Too many dog owners already use other parks illegaly (let dogs off leash).

I've personally always felt that if you don't own enough private property to properly provide for adequate exercise for your dog (or any other animal for that matter), you shouldn't have one. I don't feel the community should have the obligation of providing publicly maintained areas for this, particularly when it comes at such a cost. Now I'm sure I'll hear about all the good reasons for having a pet, I've had several but I also grew up in a much more rural Folsom than we have now, so don't even start.

[john]

Terry you weren't hugged very much as a child, were you?
So cynical...

[bordercolliefan]

Ok, Terry, I won't hit you with all the good reasons to own a dog because it sounds like you've already heard them all... [say, about the documented health benefits, increased longevity, etc.]

But I would like to ask you this: You state that the community should not provide publicly maintained (and funded) areas to facilitate dog ownership. --What do you feel is the "rule" or "standard" that should be used to determine if a particular amenity should be publicly funded?

The reason I ask is because it seems clear that municipalities fund all kinds of amenities, even though only a small portion of the public is interested in that particular sport or hobby (for example, the swim center, the skateboard park, the planned art/culture center, etc.)

I believe more than 50% of households have dogs -- a greater proportion of households than have swimmers, skateboarders, or artists... So, why do you feel it is appropriate for the city to fund amenities for the latter but not for the former?

[Terry]

Simply put - all other uses are predominantly human uses.

When people choose to own animals they must be responsible and basically pay to play - horse owners either have property or PAY to board their animals.

You want other taxpayers to subsidize your pet ownership. I'm simply asking that you contribute a little more than non-pet-owning taxpayers - either by doing your own waste pickup and/or waste pickup enforcement.

Oh, and John, the "hugged as a child" was my original quote from some time ago. Thanks for the compliment (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery).

[folsom500]

Terry,
I think that bordercollies comments are applicable as an argument to counter your suggestion that dog owners 'pay to play" We as a community subsidize all types of venues some of which we never personally use. And Human venues should not have special considerations over others in the city.

Who cleans up the other subsidized parks after residents & kids leave their trash ?
I am a strong believer in keeping my pups poop in the bag, as I am about keeping my kids trash in the trash can, but this is not a universal feeling among some soccer moms and dads, nor some dog owners- let alone venues such as the skate park and other parks where the kids are without an adult around.

I pay to keep up soccer fields, skate parks, hockey rinks and baseball diamonds as well as the family picnic groups that dont do their part- so what is the difference in having a dog park-
As we hire caretakers for our other City venues , we can hire a super duper pooper scooper for the dog park and share the costs as we do with everything else.
The alternative is more poop on our front lawns

[NRB]

Dog parks are more for dog owners than dogs. Dogs that are well exercised and well socialized are less likely to become agressive and less likely to participate in unwanted behaviors such as excessive barking, digging and chewing. This is return makes them better pets and neighbors! But a dog park also creates an environment where dog owners can socialize as well. It provides a way for less abled people such as the elderly to give their comppanions the exercise they need that they may not be able to provide themselves. For some, a trip to the dog park is the only social interaction they get. I have a list of benefits a dog park provides to the community, dog owners and dogs. If you are interested I will post it for you.

Thank you Bordercolliefan and Folsom500 for speaking up. Dog owners are a large part of the population. Nation wide approx. 25% of the population owns a dog. In Folsom that would mean roughly 13,000 dogs. We have 19+ ball fields, soccer fields, aquatic center, skate and BMX park and we are intent on building a sports complex (there's even talk of a Crickett field). Why shouldn't 25% of the population have an area where they can recreate with their dogs?

Most likely FIDO will serve as a monitoring group and help to make sure that everyone follows the rule including picking up after their pets. We have fought long and hard for this park and I can guarantee that we wont let a handful of irresponsible pet owners ruin it for the rest of us. Another benefit is that once the dog park is in place...the city plans on increasing it's enforcement of leash laws. Hopefully, we will be able to get the unleashed dogs out of the parkways and into their own park where they can run and play without infinging on the rights of other park users.

I have to go now but I would be more than happy to post more info if anyone is interested. Let me know!

[bordercolliefan]

Terry,

I don't think your argument that "all the other uses are primarily human uses" holds up.

The fact is, an amenity for dogs is a benefit to ME -- not just to my dog. It's probably accurate to say that my dog is my main hobby -- just like for some people skateboarding might be their main hobby. I enjoy exercising her and I love talking to other dog owners (almost as much as I enjoy talking about kids to other moms that I meet at the city-funded playgrounds...!)

I think there is a deeper point, too: don't humans have SOME collective responsibilities to animals... particularly to species that love and serve us in so many ways?? (This is why we care for and train stray animals at animal shelters, rather than just euthanizing all of them...).

I guess you would also say that the state should not be providing horse paths and "horse assembly" areas at the state parks.

[NRB]

Very well put! Thank you, Bordercolliefan!

[pampChefLady]

I totally agree with Bordercollie. My dogs run around quite a bit in the backyard, which isn't as big as we'd like, but probably okay for daily exercise. However, I LOVE seeing them run around at the dog park in Fair Oaks - probably more than THEY love it. I also really enjoy seeing the other breeds and talking to their owners. After all, most dog-people like to talk with other dog-people. Thus, I'd say that my family will get a lot more enjoyment from a dog park than we will from the pool, skate park, etc - that we never use.

As for picking up after the dogs, the other dog parks we've been to in the area seem to do just fine. Why? Because people appreciate the parks and want to make sure they stay accessible and pleasant. I'd bet that a Folsom dog park will be kept even more impeccable than others...

Lisa

[Steve Heard]

I would be against the dog park in that location, if my kids were still small.

I see parents, usually women, taking their small kids to climb all over the play structure, and to have a bunch of dogs running through there, sniffing, barking, peeing, pooping, and perhaps, biting, would scare me off. It's not fair to the residents who use the park.

I know, there are other parks. Instead of walking down the street, they can get in their cars and drive.

Still, not fair.

As for the comparing the trash humans leave behind with dog crap, there is no comparison. If someone throws their soda bottle or potato chip bag on the ground, it might draw some ants or bees, and can be easily picked up by park employees, and often will be picked up by other park users.

Not so for a pile of crap, which can be sat on or stepped in, and draws disease carrying flies.

I like dogs as much as the next person (well, not really, but I don't hate them), but I get tired of the comparison of dogs to our kids, or equating their waste with ours.

I won't make a stink (pun intended) about the site, but please be honest. You know that dogs take over, scare children and adults, bite people, and leave nasty smelly piles. They do. I know, not your dog, it must be someone else's.

Don't take offense, I speak the truth.

[john]

Steve, first of all, any dog area would be fenced in - so dogs can't attack your children. It's not like the people who visit dog parks are going to take their 200 lb attack pit bull and set them loose in a park.

Quite the contrary - the dogs I have seen at dog parks are usually labs, terriers, collies, beagles - if you knew anything about dogs you'd know they are very friendly. At any rate, though dogs may scare people who are not "dog people", I highly doubt anyone with any sense would bring an aggressive dog to a dog park. The only situation I could foresee is a large dog (like a lab or something) that is a little over-friendly. But again, the area would be fenced in and the only people who may be inconvenienced is other dog owners.

As for dog poop, I guarantee there will be ample doggie bags available. Anyone that would be sitting or stepping in dog crap will be within the fences anyway, and I doubt there would be much, as dog owners who go to dog parks *love* their dogs, and are respectful to the rules of a dog park (namely picking up their poo).

I swear you are painting a picture of some slobbering doberman running around, humping people's legs, and crapping all over the kids play structure.

[NRB]

Thank you, John.

Stevethedad, I have to admit that I am surprised by your response. You are usually so well informed and see both sides. The picture that you have painted is what I'd expect from someone that has no idea what a dog park is! For you information, most dog parks are in existing "people" parks complete with play areas and ballfields. All dogs must be on a leash until they are in the double gated entry (to prevent escapes). The entry gate will be before the dogs get to the play area so they will not have to walk through or by the play equipment. People with agressive dogs usually do not use dog parks. If they did they would be kicked out at the first offense.

As far as other sites...were you on the sub committee formed by the Parls and Rec. Dept.? Over the last year the sub committee and FIDO have toured, evaluated and re-evaluated 12 different sites. Each with their own positives and negatives. After 12 months we have agreed upon this site. So please don't tell me there are other sites because believe me, we've been there and seen them all (unless of course you have some land you would like to donate).

As far as the moms and their kids... I have been to this park several times over the past month. I have never seen more than a handful of children playing there at one time. I always talk to the poeple using the park regarding the proposed dog park and have yet to find any mom/dad there who opposed it. I even ran into a church group once and their toddlers and even they didn't see the problem with a dog park being so close. The residents are another matter. We surveyed the surrounding neighborhood and while there is some opposition most residents we surveyed we in favor or neutral regarding the park (including the one resident whose property actually touches the site!).

If you have a problem with dog parks or this site you have every right to voice your opinion. But it saddens me when I see "myths" being stated as facts. Go to a dog park, see for yourself and then tell me what you think!

Please remember that we are not taking over the park. We are utilizing a undeveloped part of the park to create a fenced in exercise area for dogs and their owners where they can recreate off-leash without infinging on the rights of other park users!

[NRB]

Here's a document that I compiled from various humane society and dog park websites. Hopefully, it will shed some light on the matter...

Benefits of off-leash parks to the community:
By providing socialization and exercise opportunities off-leash areas can make dogs less aggressive, reducing the risks of dog attacks. In addition, well-exercised puppies and dogs make better neighbors and are less likely to create a nuisance by barking excessively or destroying property. Additional community benefits include:
· Off-leash areas promote public safety. Designated spaces for dogs and their owners reduces the likelihood that dogs will be let loose in other recreational areas where they could infringe on the rights of other park users.
· Off-leash areas make the surrounding area safer. Dog owners have an interest in the safety of their community and can act as a neighborhood watch. In addition, designated off-leash spaces reduce the resources law enforcement and animal control officials must spend on enforcing leash laws, allowing of them to devote their time to other areas of crime prevention.
· Off-leash areas are a social hub for communities. Dogs often help people break the ice, allowing people who share interests to socialize while exercising their dogs. These interactions help neighbors to get to know each other and to build a sense of community.
· Off-leash areas promote responsible dog ownership. All users will license their dogs, not only because the threat of a fine is greater in an off-leash areas but also because there is considerable social pressure from regular off-leash areas users to do the right thing. The social aspects of off-leash areas also tend to enforce the basic rules of dog ownership such as cleaning up after one’s dog and always controlling one’s dog’s behavior.
· Provides elderly and disabled owners with an accessible place to exercise their companions.
Benefits of off-leash parks to dog owners:
· Off-leash areas provide a public space that allows people to meet and form the bonds of community.
· Off-leash areas allow people to have the pleasure of watching their dogs at play.
· It relieves feelings of guilt knowing that your canine companion is getting the mental stimulation and exercise he needs and deserves.
· Off-leash areas contribute to overall physical fitness of people by encouraging them to exercise with their dogs.
· Off-leash areas provide an opportunity for dog owners to enjoy the outside.
Benefits of off-leash parks to dogs:
· Studies have shown that dogs that exercise and are allowed to run freely are not as aggressive towards people as dogs that are under-exercised.
· Allowing dogs to have an off-leash area socializes dogs. It brings them in contact with other dogs and causes them to be less aggressive in each future encounter with dogs.
· Off-leash areas improve the mental state of dogs. Many dog owners report that after a visit to an off-leash area, their dog is less agitated, more relaxed and in general nicer to be around.