32 replies to this topic

[swmr545]

http://firstread.msn...v-senate-wounds

Gibbs makes a statement about how there are enough seats in play in the House that Republicans could make a strong run at gaining control of the House again (something that many people have come to believe).

Pelosi's response seems childish, especially when the House Majority Leader essentially said the same thing that Gibbs did.

I think the Dems shot themselves in the foot this past year, and Obama has not helped their case much. Also, the strategy of "do nothing, stall everything" that the Republicans have implemented has worked in getting people to believe that the Dems are not effective leaders; but it could also backfire on them if they aren't careful.

This Nov. will be interesting to see what happens with the mid-term elections, the Tea Party vs. Republican vs. Democrat; heck results from the primary are still interesting: http://www.msnbc.msn...373/ns/politics

[Dave Burrell]

Pelosi's response seems childish, especially when the House Majority Leader essentially said the same thing that Gibbs did.

I think the Dems shot themselves in the foot this past year, and Obama has not helped their case much. Also, the strategy of "do nothing, stall everything" that the Republicans have implemented has worked in getting people to believe that the Dems are not effective leaders; but it could also backfire on them if they aren't careful.

It's Pelosi, Reed, Stark, Holder etc who are driving people away from the democratic party and beliefs. They are a complete embarrassment not only to your party but to America as a whole. There's no way anyone wants people like that who are completely out of touch with reality running our country anymore, we've had it with those oblivious boobs.

Plus when you have a president that wants to sue one state for doing something about illegal immigration but yet allow another city to be a sanctuary city for illegals - that indicates this administration is PRO illegal immigration, blatantly so.... and we've had it with that bs.

The dems have really gone down hill - they need new (better in touch with reality) leadership if they ever expect people to believe in them again.

[Bill Z]

Dems Seem To Be Getting Nervous

swmr,

I'm having a hard time understanding you. many times you seem to be on the conservative side of issues, but then you throw your support behind Jerry Brown against Whitman.

I'm sorry, but I don't get it.

[Robert Giacometti]

I think the Dems shot themselves in the foot this past year, and Obama has not helped their case much. Also, the strategy of "do nothing, stall everything" that the Republicans have implemented has worked in getting people to believe that the Dems are not effective leaders; but it could also backfire on them if they aren't careful.

http://www.msnbc.msn...373/ns/politics[/url]

I disagree with your comments about the REPS. Yes, both sides contribute to the politics of things, but to just repeat the DEMS claims against the REPS, like you did shows you are already part of the way down that slippery slope

Lets be honest with each other, this President has the WORST record of working on bipartisanship in recent history! When you shut out the other side the way he has, how in the world can anyone expect any type of cooperation back?

Lets NOT forget the DEMS had enough votes to pass the HCR, but the DEMS couldn't agree amongst themselves to get the thing passed. The REPS were completely shut out of the process. They were told take it or leave it, so they left it.

If the REPS were so motivated to to do what you claim, why then are they now introducing pieces of legislation to IMPROVE the HCR? That isn't the actions of do nothing, stall everything is it?

People have to open their eyes to the realities of what is happening instead of regurgitating partisanship rhetoric. Have things gotten better or worse since Bush left?

I can't ever recall in our History having such INEPT Leadership as Obama, Reid and Pelosi in charge at the same time. The validation comes from NOT a single person from the left on this forum is even attempting to make a logical rebuttal for their ineptness. The BLAME BUSH Days are over and things have gotten far worse under the leadership of these three!

I challenge anyone out there to offer any kind of rebuttal that things are better today!

[swmr545]

swmr,

I'm having a hard time understanding you. many times you seem to be on the conservative side of issues, but then you throw your support behind Jerry Brown against Whitman.

I'm sorry, but I don't get it.

That's why many of my Republican friends say I need to "come out of the closet" and acknowledge that I'm a Republican. If the Republican party divorces itself from the Religious Right, gets back to their platform of less govt interference in our life, and more fiscal responsibility, I would be more inclined to switch parties. However, they Repub party seems to be content to be the moral police in this country, and they showed little restraint in being fiscally responsible during the Bush years. So for now, I am a Dem with Republican tendencies.

Just because I am a registered Dem does not mean I won't cross party lines and support republican candidates/ideas. I have never thought that a single party should have control of Washington. The Dems have proven this, as did the Republicand during the Bush years.

What we need is less partisanship from both parties. The Reps in the Senate have filibustered a lot more than what has occurred in the past, a Democratic Repunlic shouldn't be forced to run on a 2/3 majority consensus by the party that's out of power. That said, the Dems shouldn't be alienating the Repubs from everything.

When it comes to Whitman vs Brown, the only way I can describe it is: Whitman is to me as Obama is to Tea Partiers.

I just don't think she is what CA needs right now. Her ideas of cutting spending and all that stuff sounds nice, but a lot of it has been mandated by the voters. Cut anything and you begin to face the threat of lawsuits from different special interest groups. Her plans to reform the legislature into being part time may sound good, but I believe that will bring more harm to our state.

Cutting 10,000 state workers my save us on pe sions, but those 10,000 jobs still need to be done, is she going to compensate the employees who are given the extra work load? Whitman has said/done little to woe me into wanting to vote for her. In my mind, Brown is the lesser of 2 evils.

[swmr545]

I disagree with your comments about the REPS. Yes, both sides contribute to the politics of things, but to just repeat the DEMS claims against the REPS, like you did shows you are already part of the way down that slippery slope

Lets be honest with each other, this President has the WORST record of working on bipartisanship in recent history! When you shut out the other side the way he has, how in the world can anyone expect any type of cooperation back?

Lets NOT forget the DEMS had enough votes to pass the HCR, but the DEMS couldn't agree amongst themselves to get the thing passed. The REPS were completely shut out of the process. They were told take it or leave it, so they left it.

If the REPS were so motivated to to do what you claim, why then are they now introducing pieces of legislation to IMPROVE the HCR? That isn't the actions of do nothing, stall everything is it?

People have to open their eyes to the realities of what is happening instead of regurgitating partisanship rhetoric. Have things gotten better or worse since Bush left?

I can't ever recall in our History having such INEPT Leadership as Obama, Reid and Pelosi in charge at the same time. The validation comes from NOT a single person from the left on this forum is even attempting to make a logical rebuttal for their ineptness. The BLAME BUSH Days are over and things have gotten far worse under the leadership of these three!

I challenge anyone out there to offer any kind of rebuttal that things are better today!

Show me where the Repubs have been the party of "yes" and have been trying to work with the Dems on all the bills they have filibustered in the Senate. The Republicans are not hurting themselves by blocking everything they can block. They just turnaround and say, "see? the Dems are in power and can't even get anything passed."

The Repubs had a pretty dismal record of working with the Dems during the Bush years. They did many of the same tactics the Dems have been doing.

While the Reps have been introducing their own versions of what the Dems have been working on, that doesn't mean they are working with the Dems. They don't want to see the Dem plans pass, and when the Dems maks concessions and re-structure a bill to be more appealing to the Repubs, the Repubs still give it a resounding "no".

Partisan bickering has gotten worse and will continue to get worse since Bush left, as will the deficit as long as we have ongoing wars.

What is your criteria for judging if things have gotten better/worse?

The stock market has climbed since Bush left, unemployment has slowly started to trend downwards (then again, those numbers are skewed), foreclosure rates are between steady and a slight decline (May saw a 2% decrease). The Federal govt. has began to expand benefits to the same-sex partners of its workers, less travel restrictions for families that still have members in Cuba...

[Robert Giacometti]

Show me where the Repubs have been the party of "yes" and have been trying to work with the Dems on all the bills they have filibustered in the Senate. The Republicans are not hurting themselves by blocking everything they can block. They just turnaround and say, "see? the Dems are in power and can't even get anything passed."

The Repubs had a pretty dismal record of working with the Dems during the Bush years. They did many of the same tactics the Dems have been doing.

While the Reps have been introducing their own versions of what the Dems have been working on, that doesn't mean they are working with the Dems. They don't want to see the Dem plans pass, and when the Dems maks concessions and re-structure a bill to be more appealing to the Repubs, the Repubs still give it a resounding "no".

Partisan bickering has gotten worse and will continue to get worse since Bush left, as will the deficit as long as we have ongoing wars.

Didn't GW work with the DEMS in getting NCLB passed? Didn't GW get universal support for getting the authorization for going to war with Iraq? During GW 's last 2 years, the DEMs had control of the congress.

I recall at many of GW press confernces he expressed thanks to DEMS for their support! Sometime they were on the podium with him.

I'm not denying that the REPs didn't play politics with things, but NO way to the degree they have been done under this Administration. The reason why partisan bickering has gotten worse as you say, is because this Administration has been the worst at doing this EVER.

Its almost comical that there were more than enough DEMS to pass HCR without a single REP needed to support the biil, YET it was the DEMS who couldn't agree to get enough votes to pass. When the DEMS couldn't build a consensous within their own party, the Administration blamed the REPS for being the party of NO and against everything.

Look at all the people who swallowed this hook line and sinker, without thinking and asking why couldn't the DEMS pass this by themselves if this was such a great a bill?

This administration has trumped over the core beliefs of the REPS and then thrown them crumbs of insignificant, telling them choose among these for your participation. Its mind boggling to me that some of those who think of themselves as being openminded, are so blinded that they can't comprehend what is happening!

Have you ever seen or heard where the President chides the SCOTUS during the State of The Union Speech like Obama did?

The POTUS sets the tone on partisanship and this one has been the worst, far and away! Its No wonder that nearly 60% of Americans have NO Faith in this President anymore! I suspect this number will continue to grow higher and higher.

If I was a moderate or conservative DEM , I'd be hoping for the REPS to regain control of the House for help!

[swmr545]

It's very clear that you have a personal agenda that you feel will be achieved by a Democratic leadership. And I understand your dismay of the religious Republicans trying to push their policies of morality into all we do. However, it is not that simple.

Take for instance the Gay marriage situation here in California. Even though this is a Democratic state, Gay marriage has not been passed yet. Why? Do you really think the only people against Gay marriage are religious? If that were true, the Gay marriage bill would have been passed because I'm sure there are not enough religious people in this state to oppose it. So to connect the leadership of this nation to achieving, or not achieving Gay Rights to marriage, is not only silly, it is very misinformed. Small gains in the Gay marriage goal is hardly a reason to believe big gains are on the way.

To address the topic of Republicans not cooperating with the Democrats to get bills passed....it's because those bills stood for everything most conservatives are against! Higher taxes, more control over our rights, and the spend, spend, spend that has brought us to this national debt that will be paid by many generations to come. I'm sure you would not cooperate with someone who was trying to oppose Gay marriage. And you wouldn't come to the table with the idea that you should cooperate with that thinking, even in a small way. Would you? So why is it so hard for you to understand why Republicans didn't cooperate with agendas that did not agree with their basic principles?

Also, Obama has been tyrannical in his leadership; not something that has been conducive to gaining the cooperation of the right or to conservatives in general. Nancy Pelosi even said as much when she said if they couldn't achieve their goal one way they would do it another way, when she referred to going under, or over or parachuting their way and dropping down into the health care bill...in order to get it passed.

As long as there are people like you, who only look at what is good for themselves, whether it's amnesty for illegal aliens or gay marriage for Gays...not thinking about what is good for this country, as a whole...we will have poor leadership and Presidents in the White House that have their own personal agendas, without regard to the countries' over all good.

Having higher taxes, higher unemployment and more national debt will not help get Gay marriage legalized, as you have seen. So why not take the path your heart is telling you to and stop believing the lies of Obama and the Democrats? All conservatives are NOT religious. I'm sure not. And, there are many of us who wouldn't mind Gays being able to marry. Trust me, Obama doesn't give a rat's arse about Gays and there are a lot of Democrats that are religious.

What is my personal agenda?

As for gay marriage, it had been passed a number of times by the legislature. In regards to Prop 8, there were many things that came together to get the Yes on 8 side to win. Was it only religious conservatives that voted yes? no, I know gay people that voted yes on 8 because they didn't read the language properly. I also know that many parents were concerned about the flasehoods that were raised by the Yes on 8 side. Also, contrary to what many people believe, the bulk of CA leans middle-right than they do middle-left. We may have a Dem. majority in the legislature, but that's because they have created the districts to be safe for them. 6 of the last 8 governors have been Republican.

As for working with someone that is against gay marriage, I have done so in the past and will continue to do so. Only by working together can we share ideas and broaden our own personal point of views. Outside of the gay friends that I have, the vasy majority of the people I know identify themselves as "conservative Christians" that have opposed gay issues in the past and continue to do so today.

In regards to the Dems bills being against what conservatives "stand for", how do you explain the "conservatives" spending spree pre-Obama, the expansion of the federal government, and the infringement upon our rights? If you use the argument that, "it was necessary", that's the same argument that the Dems are using.

As for the moral issues, what benefit is our country getting from denying same-sex couples the ability to marry? There are other issues that the Republican party has addressed that I don't agree with, and feel they are doing so to please the social conservatives instead of the conservatives that want less govt. intrusion in our personal lives.

I have never made the claim that all conservatives are religious, nor am I naive enough to believe so. However, the Republican party and its leaders have said that they do not need the moderates in their party anymore. They keep moving further and further right, and while it may be good in the short-term, there comes a point when they will have moved too far right for most people to be willing to support. The Dems on the other hand are inching their way more and more left, abandoning the moderates in their party; and at one point will reach the tipping point where they will no longer be an attractive party to most people.

The reason being they are moving away from the center is because those that are at the center and cross the aisle are labeled as "traitors" to their own party. And since a politicians goal is to be elected and re-elected, they do not want to put their position in jeopardy by crossing the aisle too often. So you get the hard party lines, you get the people that chastise any compromise that is made, and you get the politicians focusing their efforts on pleasing the more extreme elements of their party.

[Folsom Guy]

On the topic itself, yes DEMs are nervous...'coz the real power comes with majority. With real power comes campaign contributions as well. The economy is not picking up steam fast enough, the job situation is improving at all - and this mess is pretty much Obama's now rightly or wrongly. Plus, messing around with AZ's law was a politically stupid thing to do. The AZ law - as I understand it - is one of the most convoluted is a recipe for lawsuits after lawsuits and does nothing to seal the porous borders. Losing power naturally makes DEMs nervous.

As for REPs, I was very very happy when they won the Congress in 94. But, was totally illusioned when it turned out they used the power only and only to browbeat Clinton by carrying out petty investigations with taxpayer dollars - they eventually got him with Monica. So, REPs have a tracked record of being sore, lousy and poor losers and also very very very irresponsible with power. Quite a few DEMs also had hard time accepting Dubya's victory initially, but, eventually came around.

The fact that REPs haven't voted along with Obama on any issue (and in fact even felt the need to apologize to BP) is no surprise to me. They've been trying to gin up outrage about this or that but nothing is sticking. Even if they win majority, it would not be veto-proof and just like in the 90s, stage will be set for perennial dogfight.

So, based on what I've seen in past 20-30 years, both DEMs and REPs are lousy losers when they lose Presidency...but, REPs tend to be worse than DEMs (though I'd say DEMs were worse in 70s and 80s)...if one goes just by numbers like filibusters, botched (or held-up) nominations, etc..

But, still, America is better off with divided govt.

[Robert Giacometti]

On the topic itself, yes DEMs are nervous...'coz the real power comes with majority. With real power comes campaign contributions as well. The economy is not picking up steam fast enough, the job situation is improving at all - and this mess is pretty much Obama's now rightly or wrongly. Plus, messing around with AZ's law was a politically stupid thing to do. The AZ law - as I understand it - is one of the most convoluted is a recipe for lawsuits after lawsuits and does nothing to seal the porous borders. Losing power naturally makes DEMs nervous.

As for REPs, I was very very happy when they won the Congress in 94. But, was totally illusioned when it turned out they used the power only and only to browbeat Clinton by carrying out petty investigations with taxpayer dollars - they eventually got him with Monica. So, REPs have a tracked record of being sore, lousy and poor losers and also very very very irresponsible with power. Quite a few DEMs also had hard time accepting Dubya's victory initially, but, eventually came around.

The fact that REPs haven't voted along with Obama on any issue (and in fact even felt the need to apologize to BP) is no surprise to me. They've been trying to gin up outrage about this or that but nothing is sticking. Even if they win majority, it would not be veto-proof and just like in the 90s, stage will be set for perennial dogfight.

So, based on what I've seen in past 20-30 years, both DEMs and REPs are lousy losers when they lose Presidency...but, REPs tend to be worse than DEMs (though I'd say DEMs were worse in 70s and 80s)...if one goes just by numbers like filibusters, botched (or held-up) nominations, etc..

But, still, America is better off with divided govt.

Your bias is so obvious that even a blind person can see it!

BOTH sides play politics with things no doubt about it. I suspect the REPS see the DEMs doing it more than themselves and natuarly they DEMS probably see the REPS doing it more than themselves. This is simply human nature.

Your comment about How the REPS took control in 94, "ONLY and ONLY" used to it to go after Clinton shows how biased you are. In 94 the REPS adopted the "Contract with America" and had a number of planks they would implement IF they got an a majority elected. The facts are they did get a majority elected and they did pass most of the "Contract with America" by WORKING with Clinton! HEllO, how can you just ignore this?

The REPS NEVER apologized to BP, ONLY one made some comments regarding the payments BP made into a special fund. Collectively the REPS distanced themselves from this one person's comments. How in H..l can you possibly twist this into the REPS doing this when that wasn't the case?

The bottom line is this, OBama promised to change the partisan gridlock in Washington during the campaign by working with the other side. He has done more to widen the gap than any other Presdient in modern History! His positions on some issues are absolutely unaccepatble to the REPS and some DEMS, so there is now way they are going to vote for things like this. The simple fact that moderate DEMS don't support him on some of his polices is PROOF its him who is being so partisan!

Darn right the DEMs are getting nervous because they know the folks back home don't agree with most of what Obama is doing! This will only get worse as more people see and realize what the Justice's Department recent actions are all about and as more people are out of work! The unemployed numbers aren't dropping, more people are simply falling off the unemployed list and aren't being counted!

Obama has put elected DEMs in a terrible position because they are being arm twisted Chicago style, into voting for things they know the people back home don't support, yet they fear the wrath of the Presidents office if they don't.

Obama's lack of leadership experience, coupled with Pelosi and Reid's ineptness is creating the perfect storm for the REPS! The REPs got lucky, but its our country who is sufferring!

Hopefully the REPs will have learned their lesson and pursue simple middle of the road solutions to our problems, so that Businesses and citizens will have their faith restored in our Government.

[Folsom Guy]

Your bias is so obvious that even a blind person can see it!

BOTH sides play politics with things no doubt about it. I suspect the REPS see the DEMs doing it more than themselves and natuarly they DEMS probably see the REPS doing it more than themselves. This is simply human nature.

Your comment about How the REPS took control in 94, "ONLY and ONLY" used to it to go after Clinton shows how biased you are. In 94 the REPS adopted the "Contract with America" and had a number of planks they would implement IF they got an a majority elected. The facts are they did get a majority elected and they did pass most of the "Contract with America" by WORKING with Clinton! HEllO, how can you just ignore this?

And what did the contract achieve in substance? Nothing. They just kept investigation one silly thing after another...and came to an impasse over budget fight with Clinton...and then simply backtracked...and then launched more investigations. The budget model - of pompous and blustery talk and then retreat and launch more investigations was the norm. Again, one can have their point of view. That's how I remember Gingrich years.

The REPS NEVER apologized to BP, ONLY one made some comments regarding the payments BP made into a special fund. Collectively the REPS distanced themselves from this one person's comments. How in H..l can you possibly twist this into the REPS doing this when that wasn't the case?

Watch this and you will get better perspective - and this doesn't even include comments from Rand Paul others...and I'll eagerly wait for you to spin.

http://www.thedailys...-strife-aquatic

The bottom line is this, OBama promised to change the partisan gridlock in Washington during the campaign by working with the other side. He has done more to widen the gap than any other Presdient in modern History! His positions on some issues are absolutely unaccepatble to the REPS and some DEMS, so there is now way they are going to vote for things like this. The simple fact that moderate DEMS don't support him on some of his polices is PROOF its him who is being so partisan!

Darn right the DEMs are getting nervous because they know the folks back home don't agree with most of what Obama is doing! This will only get worse as more people see and realize what the Justice's Department recent actions are all about and as more people are out of work! The unemployed numbers aren't dropping, more people are simply falling off the unemployed list and aren't being counted!

Obama has put elected DEMs in a terrible position because they are being arm twisted Chicago style, into voting for things they know the people back home don't support, yet they fear the wrath of the Presidents office if they don't.

Obama's lack of leadership experience, coupled with Pelosi and Reid's ineptness is creating the perfect storm for the REPS! The REPs got lucky, but its our country who is sufferring!

Hopefully the REPs will have learned their lesson and pursue simple middle of the road solutions to our problems, so that Businesses and citizens will have their faith restored in our Government.

To quote you - Your bias is so obvious that even a blind person can see it!

I hope REPs have learnt their lessons, but, we all can dream. Right now, Issa has been making noises demanding investigation by an Independent Counsel...haven't heard anyone from the right question that line....

Still, a divided govt is always a good deal for the people.

[Robert Giacometti]

That's how I remember Gingrich years.


Watch this and you will get better perspective - and this doesn't even include comments from Rand Paul others...and I'll eagerly wait for you to spin.

http://www.thedailys...-strife-aquatic

How you remember the Gingrich years and what actually happened are 2 different things, that is where problem lies! You can choose to remember these years anyway you want, but that doesn't change the facts of what happened.

Let me see if I understand correctly, You want me to watch sound bite clips from the Stewart Show and you are waiting for MY Spin?

Have you ever thought about doing standup comedy....because you are killing me!

Maybe its best to agree to disagree on whatever it is we are disagreeing on? How about if we get together for coffee or lunch sometime so we can have a chance to get to know each other better?

[Folsom Guy]

How you remember the Gingrich years and what actually happened are 2 different things, that is where problem lies! You can choose to remember these years anyway you want, but that doesn't change the facts of what happened.

Let me see if I understand correctly, You want me to watch sound bite clips from the Stewart Show and you are waiting for MY Spin?

Have you ever thought about doing standup comedy....because you are killing me!

Maybe its best to agree to disagree on whatever it is we are disagreeing on? How about if we get together for coffee or lunch sometime so we can have a chance to get to know each other better?

If you watched the video in the link - you'd have seen that you are wrong about one little comment about by one little guy from lil Texas...and then I wuda love to see how you react...