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Folsom Water Supply Or Lack Thereof

Folsom Lake Drought Water

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Poll: Water Supply (20 member(s) have cast votes)

How many months of water supply does Folsom have reserved in Folsom Lake?

  1. 3 months (we will be out of water in May) (1 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  2. 5 months (we will be out of water in July) (4 votes [21.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.05%

  3. 6 months (we will be out of water in August) (6 votes [31.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.58%

  4. Your paranoid (the rain will come and we will be fine) (8 votes [42.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.11%

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#1 molloy

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 10:41 PM

Did you know that the only source of water the City of Folsom has is the Folsom Lake?

 

Do you know how many months of water we have in the lake today?  To answer that you should go to https://www.facebook...lsomLakeDrought and see the updated water levels.

 

Hint:  The formula is (acre feet of water in the lake - acre feet of water required for the water to be high enough to reach our pipe in the lake)/average number of acre feet used or released from the lake each month)

 

I will be interested to see what your estimate it.  Mine is a bit scary.



#2 ducky

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:35 AM

Are you assuming that everything that is in the lake is only for the City of Folsom?  That is not the case, which makes the calculation even scarier.

Are you assuming that water will be held back and not released?

 

Folsom's population is approx. 72,000.  According to epa.gov, a family of four uses 400 gallons per day (many of us are probably well below that though in winter months).  If you break up our population into families of four, that would be approximately 18,000 households. 18,000 households using 400 gallons per day is 7,200,000 gallons.  If an acre foot of water is 325,851 gallons, wouldn't that be 22.10 acre feet a month just for residential households?   *Edit.  Oops! that should be 22.10 acre feet per day.  Still doesn't look right though.

 

I know it doesn't include parks, schools, businesses, but that doesn't seem like much when our contracts add up to 34,000 acre feet (assuming the water is there to take out and not below the intake).  The lake level is showing storage of 262,874 acre feet right now.

 

There's got to be something wrong with my calculations.



#3 ducky

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:56 AM

I found a USBR document that shows historical use for 2009 was 26,710 AF.  The breakdown was 12,326 for single-family residential and 1,085 for multi-family = total residential of 13,411 AF.  The rest was made up by landscaping (I assume city use), industrial, institutional, commercial.  There was a category of "other," which was 3,022 AF for Aerojet and 2,671 AF for unaccounted for water use.

 

I guess you could figure out approximately how much just the City of Folsom uses per month, but it doesn't really matter if the Bureau of Reclamation lets out more than is flowing in.  There have been several news stories questioning the increased releases this year.  If memory serves News 10 did one.  I sure hope they come up with a better management plan.



#4 Darth Lefty

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 10:17 AM

Well I guess we can write off Folsom, then.


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#5 tony

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 10:58 AM

Are you assuming that everything that is in the lake is only for the City of Folsom?  That is not the case, which makes the calculation even scarier.

Are you assuming that water will be held back and not released?

 

Folsom's population is approx. 72,000.  According to epa.gov, a family of four uses 400 gallons per day (many of us are probably well below that though in winter months).  If you break up our population into families of four, that would be approximately 18,000 households. 18,000 households using 400 gallons per day is 7,200,000 gallons.  If an acre foot of water is 325,851 gallons, wouldn't that be 22.10 acre feet a month just for residential households?  

 

I know it doesn't include parks, schools, businesses, but that doesn't seem like much when our contracts add up to 34,000 acre feet (assuming the water is there to take out and not below the intake).  The lake level is showing storage of 262,874 acre feet right now.

 

There's got to be something wrong with my calculations.

OK, I'll bite.  I think you forgot to multiply by 30. You started with gallons per day, so 22.1 is acre feet per day. The number would be 663 acre feet per month, or 7,960 acre feet per year. The city has been, on average, treating about 23,000 acre feet per year (the city does not use reclaimed water to my knowledge).Currently, about 65% of city revenue water use has been for residential, the rest for commercial, industrial and parks.  That word, revenue, is important, because 25% of water use in the city has been "non-revenue", which includes leakage, construction use, fire-fighting, hydrant flushing and other unknown losses or apparent losses. So, if you remove 25% of the 23,000 acre feet total, that leaves 17,250 acre feet. Sixty-five percent of that would be 11,200 acre feet, which is not too far off of your calculation. Which begs the question of why you are low, given that your assumption of 4 people per household is high (for the south of 50, they assume about 2.8 per household, less for apartments), and your estimate of population was also high (for water purposes, the city does not include the prison population, so they used 65,000). I think the problem is in your 400 gallons per day per household number.  That is an average for CA. Folsom use is significantly higher because we have traditionally had non-metered water to go with our hot summers. In Folsom, for single family residential, outdoor use is about double indoor use, and indoor use is about 70 gallons per capia per day.  So, that's about 210 gallons per capita, or 588 gallons per day per household (for single family, assuming 2.8 people per household). By comparison, many southern CA cities use less than 150 gallons per capita per day, or 420 gallons per household. So, back to the totals, if you use 65,000 people and 210 gallons per day, that comes out to 15,290 acre feet for residential. This is high because a significant percentage of the population lives in small lot single family or multi-family, which use much less water. So, take the average of the corrected version of your calculation and my version, and, vualla (sp?), you get 11,600 acre feet as the residential use in Folsom, which agrees with the city's numbers.  BTW, all this info is taken from the CITY OF FOLSOM 2010 Urban Water Management Plan (although none of the numbers are simple to extract from their tables).  Also, please note that the 4,000 or so San Juan water users mess up this calculation and have not been considered. BTW, the other way to look at it is gross water usage, which ignores differences in residential use, and non-residential uses by simply dividing total population by total water  usage. This leaves you with about 315 gallons per capita per day (which can be thought of your water use at home and at  work, school and everywhere else you go. 

 

So, back to your question about Folsom's measly 34,000 acre feet (of which we currently only use 23,000). The city has 27,000 acre feet of "pre-1914" water rights that are guaranteed by the USBR. The problem is that of the 214,000 acre feet in the lake, a significant percentage of it is below the level of the intake pipes that the city (and San Juan) use. So, it they can't get to it, they can't deliver it, guarantee or not.



#6 tony

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 11:02 AM

I found a USBR document that shows historical use for 2009 was 26,710 AF.  The breakdown was 12,326 for single-family residential and 1,085 for multi-family = total residential of 13,411 AF.  The rest was made up by landscaping (I assume city use), industrial, institutional, commercial.  There was a category of "other," which was 3,022 AF for Aerojet and 2,671 AF for unaccounted for water use.

 

I guess you could figure out approximately how much just the City of Folsom uses per month, but it doesn't really matter if the Bureau of Reclamation lets out more than is flowing in.  There have been several news stories questioning the increased releases this year.  If memory serves News 10 did one.  I sure hope they come up with a better management plan.

Earlier high releases are, shall we say, water over the dam. Now they are releasing about 500 cfs, which is significantly less than typical summer releases. Any less and you get the San Joaquin River, which never makes it to the delta.  



#7 ducky

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 11:15 AM

Earlier high releases are, shall we say, water over the dam. Now they are releasing about 500 cfs, which is significantly less than typical summer releases. Any less and you get the San Joaquin River, which never makes it to the delta.  

I don't think we should just wave off those previous high releases.  Why were they so much higher than the releases in the previous five years during the same months (according to News 10), especially when we didn't get good rainfall in the first months of 2013?  Ironically, those earlier high releases to help the Delta and wildlife actually did more harm later, didn't it?  I think they need a better formula for releases in dry years.



#8 ducky

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 11:20 AM

OK, I'll bite.  I think you forgot to multiply by 30. You started with gallons per day, so 22.1 is acre feet per day. The number would be 663 acre feet per month, or 7,960 acre feet per year. The city has been, on average, treating about 23,000 acre feet per year (the city does not use reclaimed water to my knowledge).Currently, about 65% of city revenue water use has been for residential, the rest for commercial, industrial and parks.  That word, revenue, is important, because 25% of water use in the city has been "non-revenue", which includes leakage, construction use, fire-fighting, hydrant flushing and other unknown losses or apparent losses. So, if you remove 25% of the 23,000 acre feet total, that leaves 17,250 acre feet. Sixty-five percent of that would be 11,200 acre feet, which is not too far off of your calculation. Which begs the question of why you are low, given that your assumption of 4 people per household is high (for the south of 50, they assume about 2.8 per household, less for apartments), and your estimate of population was also high (for water purposes, the city does not include the prison population, so they used 65,000). I think the problem is in your 400 gallons per day per household number.  That is an average for CA. Folsom use is significantly higher because we have traditionally had non-metered water to go with our hot summers. In Folsom, for single family residential, outdoor use is about double indoor use, and indoor use is about 70 gallons per capia per day.  So, that's about 210 gallons per capita, or 588 gallons per day per household (for single family, assuming 2.8 people per household). By comparison, many southern CA cities use less than 150 gallons per capita per day, or 420 gallons per household. So, back to the totals, if you use 65,000 people and 210 gallons per day, that comes out to 15,290 acre feet for residential. This is high because a significant percentage of the population lives in small lot single family or multi-family, which use much less water. So, take the average of the corrected version of your calculation and my version, and, vualla (sp?), you get 11,600 acre feet as the residential use in Folsom, which agrees with the city's numbers.  BTW, all this info is taken from the CITY OF FOLSOM 2010 Urban Water Management Plan (although none of the numbers are simple to extract from their tables).  Also, please note that the 4,000 or so San Juan water users mess up this calculation and have not been considered. BTW, the other way to look at it is gross water usage, which ignores differences in residential use, and non-residential uses by simply dividing total population by total water  usage. This leaves you with about 315 gallons per capita per day (which can be thought of your water use at home and at  work, school and everywhere else you go. 

 

So, back to your question about Folsom's measly 34,000 acre feet (of which we currently only use 23,000). The city has 27,000 acre feet of "pre-1914" water rights that are guaranteed by the USBR. The problem is that of the 214,000 acre feet in the lake, a significant percentage of it is below the level of the intake pipes that the city (and San Juan) use. So, it they can't get to it, they can't deliver it, guarantee or not.

 

Thanks, Tony.  I did fix that later to a per-day figure.  I guess I wasn't that far off.

I have a family of four and with only landscape watering one day a week (large yard) we were 300 gallons a day, and I'm not including water usage for a rather large dog and two other pets.  Just can't keep that water bowl full enough.  

We are still trying to improve.  I'm removing yet more landscaping this summer. 

Your last paragraph is kind of the conclusion I came to.  It really doesn't matter what the water rights are if it's not there to take.



#9 4thgenFolsomite

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 11:55 AM

okay, I'm a slow learner.  what is the average monthly use of a single family residence in Folsom?


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#10 ducky

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:19 PM

okay, I'm a slow learner.  what is the average monthly use of a single family residence in Folsom?

You and me both.  It gets confusing.  The water use data shouldn't be counted merely per residence, because, obviously, a larger family is going to use more.  The epa.gov number I gave of 400 gallons per day is for a family of four.  The epa.gov site says that 70 percent of that use is indoors.  That doesn't leave much water for outdoor use.

Tony is right that in summer months Folsomites that have landscaping to water and pools to keep full would use much more outdoors than indoors, but then again they use much less during the winter months.  It seems like the city should have some sort of average number now that we are metered even if they don't know how many are living in a household.

I just don't know where to find that number.



#11 cw68

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:34 PM

Are you assuming that everything that is in the lake is only for the City of Folsom?  That is not the case, which makes the calculation even scarier.
Are you assuming that water will be held back and not released?
 
Folsom's population is approx. 72,000.  According to epa.gov, a family of four uses 400 gallons per day (many of us are probably well below that though in winter months).  If you break up our population into families of four, that would be approximately 18,000 households. 18,000 households using 400 gallons per day is 7,200,000 gallons.  If an acre foot of water is 325,851 gallons, wouldn't that be 22.10 acre feet a month just for residential households?   *Edit.  Oops! that should be 22.10 acre feet per day.  Still doesn't look right though.
 
I know it doesn't include parks, schools, businesses, but that doesn't seem like much when our contracts add up to 34,000 acre feet (assuming the water is there to take out and not below the intake).  The lake level is showing storage of 262,874 acre feet right now.
 
There's got to be something wrong with my calculations.


While the EPA average for a family of four may be 400, according to the Dept of Water resources database, Folsom averages 479 per PERSON per day.

#12 Darth Lefty

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:35 PM

Who is molloy (1 post) and why is it starting another thread about this when we've been going on for pages on the other threads?  I don't think anyone on this forum could remain ill-informed about it.  Is it a water rights troll?  Should I be holding my breath for the pivot to the blame game?  Folsom Lake is obviously not "the only source of water for Folsom", we have clever inventions called pumps and pipes and trucks and money.  Maybe the lawns need to die this year and the bills go up, but I don't foresee pit latrines or Road Warrior.


"I enjoy a bit of cooking, and this has always worried me. But it's OK. I only like it because it allows me to play with knives." - James May

Genesis 49:16-17
http://www.active2030folsom.org

#13 ducky

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:40 PM

While the EPA average for a family of four may be 400, according to the Dept of Water resources database, Folsom averages 479 per PERSON per day.

Well, I can tell you that is inaccurate for my family of four.  

Is that the same database that Camay linked?, because I have some questions about the way the numbers were reported.

If you read the full story with the link, they have Palm Springs lamenting that their figures are so high because they only count the permanent population and not the snowbirds or tourists.  I can't imagine why Anaheim wouldn't be complaining about the same thing, but they show low usage, which is hard to fathom when they have Disneyland and all those hotel guests 365 days a year.



#14 4thgenFolsomite

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:41 PM

479 gallons per person per day?  how is that possible?  that must be averaging in annual landscaping, etc., so a per household figure based on the number of people in the household.  If that is the case, the average household would be 4 people X 479 X 30 or 57,480 gallons a month and 689,000 annually?


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#15 ducky

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:42 PM

Who is molloy (1 post) and why is it starting another thread about this when we've been going on for pages on the other threads?  I don't think anyone on this forum could remain ill-informed about it.  Is it a water rights troll?  Should I be holding my breath for the pivot to the blame game?  Folsom Lake is obviously not "the only source of water for Folsom", we have clever inventions called pumps and pipes and trucks and money.  Maybe the lawns need to die this year and the bills go up, but I don't foresee pit latrines or Road Warrior.

 

Wrong.  With the exception of maybe a few properties on the other side of the river in the San Juan Water District, Folsom's only source is surface water.  We don't have wells, except maybe Empire Ranch Golf Course, but even they revert to surface water when the wells dry up.






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