26 replies to this topic

[Folsomite]

Man, I just learned that Folsom's practice to prevent sewage spills in the streets is to - get this - bolt down the manhole covers so they don't pop off!!!

Not surprisingly, this is not cutting it with the authorities!!! Who's the Einstein who came up with this idea???

...and they wonder why people are against growth in Folsom. If they can't plan for growth to begin with, you're just asking for trouble. And here it is!

[bettyemahan]

Does anyone know if the above ground PVC pipe the city installed for sewage disposal at the little 80+ lady's house was ever replaced with proper hookup to sewer lines after a developer building behind her wrecked her septic tank/field 2+ years ago??????

[Folsom Phillip]

that is so typical... look the other way and hope it will go away.

It's embarrassing sometimes to live here - every time I look at the news, we're in it for dumping sewage or something.

Bad, bad.

[jake]

I agree... putting bubble gum on a leaking dam is not an accepteble solution, why should this be?

Boy, I sure hope the dam isn't leaking!

[camay2327]

I knew they had welded the manhole covers down so they would not leak.

What will probabally happen when the heavy rains come is, the sewers will probabally back up into our drains and nothing will flush!!!

[Terry]

As I recall, the reason the City started bolting down manhole covers was because:

1. pranksters had removed several that were in roadways causing a high danger of vehicles driving into the open hole; and

2. pranksters had dumped large rocks down one drain effectively blocking flow and causing a severe backup that resulted in flooding of streets.

People really should check out the "why" of City actions rather than jumping to conlusions, particularly when those conclusions paint the City as the bad guys. Anyone have better suggestions as to how the City could have dealt with the above 2 pranks?

[Bob]

Terry's information is incomplete at best. The "why" of the City's action is contained in numerous reports performed for the City by Consulting Engineering firms.
The reasons for bolting down manholes are as follows:

1. Stop vandalism.
2. Stop water from leaking INTO the manhole.
3. Stop sewage from spilling OUT OF the manhole.

The engineering documents point to the third reason as being the primary reason that dozens of manholes have been sealed and bolted down around the City. The studies show that many manholes can surcharge (sewer line becomes full and pressurized, causing sewage to back up into the manhole). The next step would be a sewage spill.

Pressurizing manholes can cause the following: (again per the City's own engineering reports)

1. Force sewage out of leaks in the pipe into the adjacent ground.
2. Damage the pipes and manholes as they are generally designed to be gravity (free) flowing.
3. Back up sewage up the line, into the laterals, and possibly into homes and businesses.

The City is under strict regulations from the Regional Water Quality Control Board (RWQCB) for their history of numerous spills over the past few years. This past November 1st was a deadline that the RWQCB had imposed on the City to provide documentation that our sewer system is OK and that their program of bolting down manholes will not have the above ill effects.

The RWQCB felt that the City's submittal was incomplete, inconclusive, and inadequate, and does not provide the engineering documentation required (it was not even signed by a registered professional engineer as was required) and issued the City a Notice of Violation. The City now has until November 25th to fully comply.

Note that the same engineering reports referenced above also indicate that we will have to spend millions to correct our deficient sewer system. Bolting down manholes, using new pipes to interconnect pipes in the hope that both will not surcharge at the same time, have already cost us hundreds of thousands if not more. These are considered as “interim corrections and is not considered compliance with the provision” (RWQCB order to prove that our sewer system is adequate). All of these problems can be directly attributed to uncontrolled development without the collection of adequate fees to increase the capacity of our system. You and I are again are being forced to subsidize the developers.

City Hall continues to tell us that there is no problem with the capacity of our sewer system and, by the way, if there is a problem, it has nothing to do with their policy of uncontrolled development.

Common sense, supported by the City’s own engineering reports, the accusations levied at the City by our lead Sewer Maintenance Supervisor for not reporting and under reporting spills, the RWQCB’s actions against the City, and the numerous and continuous spills, tell us differently, not to mention the 2002 Grand Jury’s report at
http://www.sacgrandj...rt2001-2002.pdf
that blasts Folsom for our inadequate sewers.


Regards,
Bob Fish
Folsom Families First

PS
By the way, (in response to the above post) even though the City (including council members) made a big deal about how they would rush in and fix the above ground sewer pipe placed in the yard of 80+ Gladys Trejo(sp?) as a result of work to accommodate an adjacent housing development, over a year later, nothing has been done.

[NRB]

This forum wouldn't be complete without Bob and Terry going head to head! I look forward to the colorful debates that are sure to come! Back to the topic, I have to admit I was rather disapointed when I read in the Bee last week that the City has still failed to meet the requirements to fix our sewer problems! What are they going to do when the rains come? A lot of people that live in Willow Springs and Prairie Oaks (myself included) thought that the pipes going in around our part of town were to help aleviate this problem but now I am hearing that these pipes are for future development?!?!? Can anyone give me some facts on this? For anyone who thinks our sewer system is adequate, let me tell you a true story.................Soon after we moved in to our brand new home in Willow Springs, our Master bedroom, bathroom sprang a leak (so to speak). I tried to explain to the warranty guys that the bathroom only flooded when it had been raining heavily for several days and I was doing laundry at the same time. I realize this sounded weird but they brushed me off and told me it was my washing machine and we hadn't properly clamped the drainage hose. Long story short, 2 years, several bathroom floods and pipe inspections later they found the culprit. We had cracks in the seal of our washing machine drainage pipe, above the elbow (about a foot above the floor). When I asked why it only leaked after it had been raining heavily, I do laundry almost everyday without any problems, their response shocked me. Basicaly they said that when it rains heavily the City's sewage/drainage pipes are slowed to the point where my washing machine water drains so slowly that it just sits in my pipes looking for a way out! That's why it didn't leak during regular use because when the water drains quickly it doesn't have time to find the little cracks in the seal! Now, these were not little floods mind you. I am talking about 1/2 an inch of standing water in my master bathroom! In order for that much water to leak out of those tiny cracks one or two drops at a time, it had to be sitting in those pipes for quite a while. I am happy to say that since we fixed the pipes we have had no more leaks. But I hate to think where the water is going to go now! I wonder how many poeple have water backing up in their pipes but don't even know it! Let's hope the City get's on the ball and fixes this problem once and for all! In the meantime, I'll just be thankful that the water that leaked from my pipes was just from my washing machine and not something worse!

[valdossjoyce]

How many pranksters does it take to lift a manhole cover? I thought they were pretty darn heavy...

[Terry]

It only takes one prankster to lift a manhole cover IF he/she has the special tool - a crowbar can be used also, but yes, maintenance hole covers are very heavy.

Certainly didn't mean to cause such a stir, but as Paul Harvey used to say........"and that's the rest of the story"............seems so many people want to tell just part of the story.

Folsom residents also should remember when they want to complain about the "City", well, we are a democracy, so "we" are the "City"........care to pony up all the money to make all the repairs, renovations that are needed for the "City".........it is up to us, you know. Yes, I know the response will be "...well, the developers should.....", and that is a valid argument, however, those of us who have been here awhile need to pay up for our own maintenance. Are we sure that ALL the infrastructure problems are due to growth and not due just to maintenance needs?

The blame game goes on...........it can't be US, so it's got to be the City....

[bettyemahan]

Official records on file with the city (Folsom) and Sacramento County will tell you how long the "blame game" has gone on, and continues. The example I cited above----the above ground sewer lines the city provided 2+ years ago for the property of Gladys Trejo which is STILL ABOVE GROUND, should give you a good example of the "city" remedys! Who is to blame there? How long would you put up with that situation? Mrs. Trejo has lived here 50 years or more and a DEVELOPER caused her problem! How much longer should she wait? The developer sold his builddings and the city gets taxes from them AND Mrs.Trejo! Again------how much longer should she wait at age 80+?????

[valdossjoyce]

Terry asks for other suggestions for stopping the manhole cover pranksters. My kids vote for re-deploying the police officers stationed at our secondary schools. That would free-up four officers to patrol manholes all day long. The poor youngsters don't realize, however, what havoc this would wreak. If the officers leave campus, the principals and vice principals will have to actually deal with kids' truancy, smoking on campus, etc. Next thing you know, the the school district will be on our backs because all that over-time by school district staff will come out of district budgets. They might have to get teachers to pitch in too, like they did when I was a kid, but then the teachers union will probably strike. I guess when you come right down to it, bolting down the manhole covers makes a lot of sense. But, wait a minute, aren't we being politically incorrect? I think we should call them personhole covers...

[Bob]

Terry is right about one thing, "We are the City." With all the news Folsom has had regarding our constant spills (most of which have not been reported by the media) one would think that residents would be outraged. There has been extensive debate about affordable housing and how, in some people’s perspective, it will cause all kinds of ills from property devaluation to damaging our quality of life. All this for something that has not yet occurred.

Yet, we have been subject to what is seemingly a very deficient sewer system, one that has led to numerous spills on a yearly basis, one that has polluted our streets, local streams, Lake Natoma, and the drinking water of downstream users, and it has hardly registered with residents at all.

A recent spill last month was estimated at over 10,000 gallons. Yet the City claimed that it did not reach any waterways. A small swimming pools worth of sewage, flows down a nearby storm drain and the City claims it just disappeared?

There are many other examples that leaves one wondering what the City is doing (sorry Terry, but not only did we elect officials to represent us, but we are paying professional staff to oversee such problems, your position of throwing this kind of problem back on the residents does not cut it by any rational common sense look at the situation.)

As for ponying up the money that should be paid by developers, it is already in the works. Look for a significant sewer rate increase soon. Of course, the City could just stop all new sewer connections to our system, that is already over burdened and......oh, sorry, that would mean that the developers would have to pay to increase the capacity of the system if they wanted to continue hook up new sewer connections.....never mind, lets just continue to let the City raise our rates so we can continue to subsidize those developers. Along with other infrastructure items, we are already being forced to pay for half of the new water treatment plant expansion that is needed ONLY by the developers of the east area. It will do virtually nothing for existing residents. I have asked for the Nexus study (who should pay based on who will benefit from a new facility) on several occasions, once directly to the Council, but have not received a document that meets the requirements of a nexus study. Our “share” is apparently about $18 million. (How much was that new library going to cost?)


NRB - Consider this: You indicated that your washing machine would not drain during a rain, causing it to back up through a crack in the drain pipe and flooding your master bathroom to a depth of about ½”. If you are talking about a relatively small master bath, then perhaps it was only water from your washing machine. However, if you are talking about a larger master bath, that is a considerable amount of water, perhaps more than would drain from a washing machine. If, what the builder told you is correct, and the system outside your home is draining slowly, it could have actually backed up the line to your house. Not a very pleasant thought, but it does happen. It likely did not occur during the event you described, but with perhaps another 1,000 sewer connections added since last year, the chances of this occurring obviously have increased.

The point is, as noted in my previous post, the City has not provided the documentation required by the RWQCB to prove otherwise. Many areas of the City may be at risk. At this point, we just don’t know.

I suspect that you know about this NRB, but for other readers, I would like to point out the Willow Springs Neighborhood Forum website at:
http://groups.msn.co...365138269986250

This link should take you directly to a tread titled: Mystery Leaks.
Perhaps this post was also by you (similar leak problem). Given the pending rain I suggest the following:
1. Survey your neighbors if they have had leaks or noticed slow draining of sinks, tubs, showers, etc. when it rains.
2. Report your problems and concerns to Karen Niiya at the RWQCB. They are the ones regulating and overseeing Folsom’s sewer problems and should know about this. Karen is an engineer and should be able to provide you with some information. She can be reached at: (916) 255-3362

Regards,
Bob Fish
Folsom Families First

[bettyemahan]

Also, don't forget,------a really "on the ball" solution to the sewer spills, over-flows, etc., resulting from the LONG TIME inadequate sewer system the city officials came up with was sewer pits!!!!!! You reelected two of those city officials so you should not be surprised if you get more of the same type of solutions, ----but don't blame the city!!!!!!!

[ljselig]

It is dead wrong to bolt down, seal, pressurize, hundreds of sanitary sewer manholes. Contact Water Quality Board Engineers Karen Niiya by e-mail or 255-3362, or Patricia Leary 255-3023.

The city is harming the sewer system and environment by pressuring and sealing manholes. The Water Board and the city's own super-expensive consulting engineers have warned the city against sealing.

Vandalism claims are not true. Coverups. Nothing justifies sealing hundreds of manholes in the middle of busy streets like Folsom Blvd. and Blue Ravine. Sealing is intended to hide sewage spills, but it causes the sewage to back up into the homes.

Sewage is backing up because the sewers are full and sewage has been surcharging (backing up into manholes) for years -- even in dry weather. The city decided to seal hundreds of manholes to "hide spills," but sewage has to go someplace --- toilets, sinks, washing machines in homes.

If there is liquid around a manhole cover or a clean-out cover, THAT IS A RAW SEWAGE SPILL.
REPORT THE SPILLS.
If sewage backs up into your home, REPORT IT.
REPORT stench, sewer gas, liquids running down the river banks, liquids entering the River.
THIS ISN'T POLITICS -- IT IS RAW DISEASE-CARRYING SEWAGE!