343 replies to this topic

[camay2327]

If I drive down Iron Point road, or any other road, doing 45 - 50 MPH and someone goes by me really fast, YES you can estimate their speed. If traffic is going along at 50 MPH and a car goes by really fast you can estimate they are going 70-80 MPH just by how far they get ahead of you. Yes, it is an estimate but you can tell that they are speeding.


Enough said. The two boys, witnesses say, were speeding. The people that reported them as speeding were more than likely themselves going 40 - 45 MPH and if they went flying past them, they were speeding.

Whatever happens, I hope they get their just rewards.

[OctoberLily]

I am sorry you felt my reference to "inattentive" was insensitive. I am just trying to be realistic. Simply going over the speed limit does not absolve any other driver of liability. Let's say you are at a stop sign - cross traffic does not have stop sign but a car is travelling 15 or 20 mph over the speed limit. Do you seriously think you have a right to pull out in front of them and not have any contribution to fault? Clearly it was not safe to proceed. We don't even know if she stopped prior to pulling out - there simply are so many variables we just don't know about at this time when it comes to assessing fault.

Your husband sounds like he does the right thing -- one should always expect the unexpected. Let that be a lesson to all of us.

When it comes to a wrongful death claim, trust me, everyone is going to be named as a defendent most of the time - car manufacturers, tire companies, landscapers, etc...you name it. I wouldn't be suprised if Mr. McNew has already retained counsel who inturn is already looking into reconstructionists, biomechanical engineers, etc to look into all aspects of this tragic accident.

And as to the braking issue, it certainly will be complicated by a number of things such as tire condition, roadway surface condition/wear, temperature, roadway grade, etc... While not exact, I am certain the FPD investigators should come up with a pretty close estimate. Also, I am not sure if the Stealth or the other vehicle racing with him has a black box but if they do, that would likely provide some invaluable info such as speed, time of braking, etc. with much greater accuracy than measuring skid marks.

This is true... experts take into consideration everything including how light or dark it was at the time of the accident and whether there was anything obstructing the view of the road when pulling out into it. Speed is not the only factor that causes an accident.

In fact, I've had people pull out from one of the side roads on Folsom Auburn Boulevard who looked left then right and then pulled out without ever looking left again - by this time, I was about 50 feet from them and had to slam on my breaks after she just pulled out in front of me. Thank God my breaks worked well and I was able to stop in time - of course, I laid on my horn for a while to tell her how reckless she was to do that. She could have killed herself and taken me with her!!

When you pull out you look both left and right - but the few seconds it takes for you to look right a car could be on their way to your left - please always look left again before you pull out onto the road because a few seconds and being extra careful can make a huge difference in your life.

I also count three seconds after my red light turns green on any intersection because that is about how long a red light runner takes to blow into your intersection and take you out. This rule has saved me a couple of times during my lifetime.

We can't even speculate how this tragic accident occurred - numerous factors could have played in causing this terrible incident to happen. Let the experts investigate this terrible event and pray for those involved.

[Jaxx]

They could have been driving 70-80MPH, but that doesn't mean he impacted her car at full speed. The skid marks show the driver had slammed on the brakes, so the car would have slowed somewhat by the time he hit her car. He was still going fast enough to kill the other driver even after the severe braking attempt.

[Steve Heard]

The witnesses say they were racing and speeding, the cops say they were racing and speeding, the skid marks indicate speeding, the DA filed manslaughter charges against them, citing gross negligence, yet many keep posters, despite all of the above, despite the fact that they did not witness it the killing, nor are they teen street racing crash experts, keep defending the kids, or saying 'it's impossible for them to have been going that fast', or 'wait for the facts to come out'.

As far as I'm concerned, the facts are out. Two teens driving fast cars were speeding down Iron Point, as many kids and adults do each day. They were likely eyeing one another and having fun, as irresponsible street racing teens will do, when an innocent woman pulled into the intersection, and it was too late for the boys to stop.

Will a conviction do it, or will you say the jury was biased because they were teens? Do the boys have to admit it? If they do so, will you say they were just pleading to a lesser charge to avoid longer jail time?

I don't get all of the denial.

[Dave Burrell]

The witnesses say they were racing and speeding, the cops say they were racing and speeding, the skid marks indicate speeding, the DA filed manslaughter charges against them, citing gross negligence, yet many keep posters, despite all of the above, despite the fact that they did not witness it the killing, nor are they teen street racing crash experts, keep defending the kids, or saying 'it's impossible for them to have been going that fast', or 'wait for the facts to come out'.

As far as I'm concerned, the facts are out. Two teens driving fast cars were speeding down Iron Point, as many kids and adults do each day. They were likely eyeing one another and having fun, as irresponsible street racing teens will do, when an innocent woman pulled into the intersection, and it was too late for the boys to stop.

Will a conviction do it, or will you say the jury was biased because they were teens? Do the boys have to admit it? If they do so, will you say they were just pleading to a lesser charge to avoid longer jail time?

I don't get all of the denial.

[cw68]

The witnesses say they were racing and speeding, the cops say they were racing and speeding, the skid marks indicate speeding, the DA filed manslaughter charges against them, citing gross negligence, yet many keep posters, despite all of the above, despite the fact that they did not witness it the killing, nor are they teen street racing crash experts, keep defending the kids, or saying 'it's impossible for them to have been going that fast', or 'wait for the facts to come out'.

As far as I'm concerned, the facts are out. Two teens driving fast cars were speeding down Iron Point, as many kids and adults do each day. They were likely eyeing one another and having fun, as irresponsible street racing teens will do, when an innocent woman pulled into the intersection, and it was too late for the boys to stop.

Will a conviction do it, or will you say the jury was biased because they were teens? Do the boys have to admit it? If they do so, will you say they were just pleading to a lesser charge to avoid longer jail time?

I don't get all of the denial.

Go Steve! Go Steve!

[ducky]

Good post, stevethedad. I don't get all the denial either. Why automatically assume that a witness is mistaken? I know I've witnessed racing on crowded roads, cars weaving in and out of traffic. Usually the thought that cross my mind is, "Those idiots are going to kill someone."

While I can sympathize that these young men's poor decision will change their lives forever, I don't think just because they are young there should be no consequences. Their lives are changed, but they are young and they can accept responsibility and still have time to turn things around. Mrs. McNew doesn't get that chance. She doesn't get to see college graduations, weddings, grandchildren. It's way too early to ask for forgiveness.

[FolsomBarb]

The witnesses say they were racing and speeding, the cops say they were racing and speeding, the skid marks indicate speeding, the DA filed manslaughter charges against them, citing gross negligence, yet many keep posters, despite all of the above, despite the fact that they did not witness it the killing, nor are they teen street racing crash experts, keep defending the kids, or saying 'it's impossible for them to have been going that fast', or 'wait for the facts to come out'.

As far as I'm concerned, the facts are out. Two teens driving fast cars were speeding down Iron Point, as many kids and adults do each day. They were likely eyeing one another and having fun, as irresponsible street racing teens will do, when an innocent woman pulled into the intersection, and it was too late for the boys to stop.

Will a conviction do it, or will you say the jury was biased because they were teens? Do the boys have to admit it? If they do so, will you say they were just pleading to a lesser charge to avoid longer jail time?

I don't get all of the denial.

I don't get it either.

[stacycam]

Excellent post Steve. I think it's very scary that so many adults are so willing to unconditionally defend teens, without merit. I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt, but this is way beyond.

It will be very interesting to see how this case shakes out.

[Steve Heard]

Excellent post Steve. I think it's very scary that so many adults are so willing to unconditionally defend teens, without merit. I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt, but this is way beyond.

It will be very interesting to see how this case shakes out.

I'll start another post on parental denial.

[camay2327]

Steve, I agree with you...


Also, OctoberLily, the speakers you talk about are usually in the back of the car so they wouldn't be damaged in a head on crash.


Wake up and smell the roses....

The boys are a fault...

[Folsom_Blues]

While this collision is unfortunate, it's not unsurprising. This occurs over 40,000 times a year, 115 times a day. And certainly these kids are responsible for her death, but we also approve and condone the system that killed her.

Please read the words of her husband in today's SacBee. http://www.sacbee.co...ory/109659.html

We have created the culture and infrastructure that enables and encourages this behavior. Street racing has been completely glorified in movies for decades. NASCAR drivers are treated as demi-gods. TV commercials constantly blare about bigger engines and faster cars. "Does your car only go 0-60 in 7 seconds? Well, THIS one goes 0-60 in 6 seconds!" And appending "Professional driver on a closed course" in a microscopic does not qualify as an adequate warning. I wonder if producers of these movies would be willing to watch a graphic documentary about the aftermath of street racing. I doubt it.

Our infrastructure is designed to move many cars at a high rate of speed. Mankind had made it for quite some time before having the ability to travel at 55 MPH. Now, we can't drive 55. We must go FASTER! We have shunned narrow two-lane roads for wide 4-6 lane roads with sweeping turns, and interminably long blocks. I have driven well-above the speed limit myself, even at that very spot. (I even got a ticket!) Iron Point is severely over-built. I have never seen anything that resembles a traffic jam. Folsom Blvd is another popular spot for racers. Why do we have the lights on FB default to green at night?

I don't think anybody in Folsom can change American culture anytime soon, be I think we could change our infrastructure in small ways to discourage this behavior. It would take a drastic overhaul to make it nearly impossible. But is that what we really want? How many of us are willing to wait a little bit more everyday in order to save some lives?

[folsombound]

If I drive down Iron Point road, or any other road, doing 45 - 50 MPH and someone goes by me really fast, YES you can estimate their speed. If traffic is going along at 50 MPH and a car goes by really fast you can estimate they are going 70-80 MPH just by how far they get ahead of you. Yes, it is an estimate but you can tell that they are speeding.
Enough said. The two boys, witnesses say, were speeding. The people that reported them as speeding were more than likely themselves going 40 - 45 MPH and if they went flying past them, they were speeding.

Whatever happens, I hope they get their just rewards.

If as indicated, there were significant skid marks, then they could have been going at excessive speeds. Braking as indicated by the skid marks would have slowed them down but still left more than enough speed for a major impact. A broadside impact at 40-45 MPH after slowing would be more than enough to kill a person in a car being broadsided.

[crossski]

If as indicated, there were significant skid marks, then they could have been going at excessive speeds. Braking as indicated by the skid marks would have slowed them down but still left more than enough speed for a major impact. A broadside impact at 40-45 MPH after slowing would be more than enough to kill a person in a car being broadsided.

this is true- looking at a back issue of Sports Car International shows
braking distances of 60mph -0 at 120 ft
80mph -0 at 214 ft

http://www.stealth31.../sci91tt-p4.gif

with the measured skid marks of 170-190ft places the car most likely at 80mph
as car was not even close to a stop after the long skid marks measured.

[M.E.G.]

While this collision is unfortunate, it's not unsurprising. This occurs over 40,000 times a year, 115 times a day. And certainly these kids are responsible for her death, but we also approve and condone the system that killed her.

Please read the words of her husband in today's SacBee. http://www.sacbee.co...ory/109659.html

We have created the culture and infrastructure that enables and encourages this behavior. Street racing has been completely glorified in movies for decades. NASCAR drivers are treated as demi-gods. TV commercials constantly blare about bigger engines and faster cars. "Does your car only go 0-60 in 7 seconds? Well, THIS one goes 0-60 in 6 seconds!" And appending "Professional driver on a closed course" in a microscopic does not qualify as an adequate warning. I wonder if producers of these movies would be willing to watch a graphic documentary about the aftermath of street racing. I doubt it.

Our infrastructure is designed to move many cars at a high rate of speed. Mankind had made it for quite some time before having the ability to travel at 55 MPH. Now, we can't drive 55. We must go FASTER! We have shunned narrow two-lane roads for wide 4-6 lane roads with sweeping turns, and interminably long blocks. I have driven well-above the speed limit myself, even at that very spot. (I even got a ticket!) Iron Point is severely over-built. I have never seen anything that resembles a traffic jam. Folsom Blvd is another popular spot for racers. Why do we have the lights on FB default to green at night?

I don't think anybody in Folsom can change American culture anytime soon, be I think we could change our infrastructure in small ways to discourage this behavior. It would take a drastic overhaul to make it nearly impossible. But is that what we really want? How many of us are willing to wait a little bit more everyday in order to save some lives?

Folsom Blues and others,

While this is a senseless death and one that will have lifetime of pain for those still alive I feel as though there is only so much you can do, and that it needs to be one to one with your children when they are still young enough to listen to you. I don't believe it is the fault of movies, car makers or the roads. There has always been and will always be some type of racing. In prior centuries it was horse racing, chariot racing, even now they race camels in the mideast! People like to race.

I grew up before the mandatory 55 mph law was around (lets not forget that was to save gas, not lives) and no one drove that slow. As a teenager in the bay area there was street racing every weekend on a public road. Everyone knew about it and there would be tons of people watching. This is not a new issue. I can understand the feeling you get when you have are driving a car that is probably faster than a lot of others, someone comes up next to you showing off, some young people when challenged will take that challenge. I did a few times in a fast car and raced on public streets when I was young and stupid. And I was an 18 year old girl! I never watched racing movies, I don't even know if NASCAR was around then. I was lucky, I totaled a car racing and did not injure myself or anyone else.

I don't know if there are any places now that offer kids/adults a place to race their own cars, but if we perhaps had that, with some real marketing that might help.

On a side note I have a younger son that his father says if he gets good grades he will get a nice cool car. I have already started that battle because I want him to drive the slowest car (with a gps speed tracking device) I can find. I know what is in his genes (his dad doesn't). I have also started talks with him on driving, what has just happened and the responsiblity issues.

M.E.G.