261 replies to this topic

[supermom]

Well if the shoe fits...

I like the idea of deterrents too but it ain't that black and white. And neither is this case. We're talking about a couple of kids...got any?

Did they wake up that morning and decide to get behind the wheel of their car and kill somebody?

Deterrents are a nice goal but a better goal, IMHO, in this situation is trying to actually bring some good out of this tragedy. I'd go for the rehabilitation. And anyone who thinks California law operates under a rehabilitative strategy is sorely misguided. The recidivism rate of youth exiting the CYA is 70% or more. Why is that?

Probably because the guys doing the rehabing are not professionals- are not required to have specialized education--other than on the job training and they may or may not even have a college degree. In other words--they are completely lacking in the training required to RE-TRAIN a bunch of teenagers in how to reenter society as a decent human being, with goals and strategies in how to accomplish those goals. It stinks--but true. CYA is a hell fest of pubescent crap rolled up in a newspaper and left sitting by a filthy toilet and forgotten. Nothing glamorous than just any other jail in America--and no hope for kids who are guaranteed to be coming back into society--except just that guarantee.

[doj_gal]

sorry but I want to see deterents for committing crimes.

People are people...some commit crimes due to lack of age and judgement...I call it being young, not taught responsibilty by parents and lack of experience to realize their actions due have monumental effects.....

THEN there are the people who commit crimes because they are criminals...either taught or naturally mentally unstable evil and are compelled to be so...it is sad to see individuals who start out young and if there were positive role models influencing them they may have not ended up as hardened criminals....

There is a difference...some people you cannot trust to live in society...they will continue to commit crimes and hurt people...past will predict future...those people we must lock up and not let see the light of day...however I do not feel that this is the case of these young men...and frankly I don't want to see them turn into career criminals...

Unfortunately deterents only work for those who are scared of prision...frankly I do not commit crimes because I am not compelled to...jail does not cross my mind because I do not live a criminal life...however the people who commit crimes obviously do not care and nothing really deters them..not even jail..FREE ROOM & BOARD...FOOD...MEDICAL CARE...CABLE...GYM EQUIPTMENT...DO NOT HAVE TO WORK...frankly that's the life most criminals want to live with all the emenities life requires......a much harder life is working two jobs, going to school to pay for life and working so much that you can barely enjoy all that you work so hard for...that's the life I live...

Hopefully those boys knew if they killed someone they would go to jail...they would not kill for mere joy....however due to immaturity they did not think that speeding/racing would end tragically...That's the difference...they need not go without punishment...but the everyone goes in the box mentality never works...I think SuperMoms suggestion that they pay college tutuion for any children that the victim had is brilliant!!!

[banana]

I understand what you are talking about which is why your choice of words is incorrect. Eff Sid Vicious you trying to amke it look like you know what your talking about to relate to me??

Whatever, I can use any words (minus profanity) I want. I've seen your tough guy persona on here. It doesn't work on me.

[Steve Heard]

Funny that you call me a lib...I never have sided with, voted for, or believed in anything that came from a liberal persons mouth or position...Regardless of how I vote...my beliefs on this is to not send another young man who can make a positive contribution into the crappy CYA program...

That was my point.

It is not liberal vs. conservative here.

It's about who one wants to forgive, and why.

I'll put it another way:

Liberals tend to want to forgive criminals because they came up in difficult circumstances, bad neighborhood, etc., and deserve another chance - so they can live up to their potential

Conservatives tend to want to forgive criminals who come from a good family, good neighborhood, etc. , and deservae another chance - so they can live up to their potential

Both sides will say that prison will only make things worse for them

[LexHillsmom]

Man, that's alot of blah-blah. It will serve society because it will take these dangerous "nice little boys" OUT of society for a few years, and allow the family to receive a little reassurance that these animals are punished for their hideous crimes. A decent society needs to remove criminals from society for the sake of the honest, law-abiding citizens. And if they suffer at the YA, then "oh well". I thing the McNew's have suffered, too. If ya don't wanna do the time, don't do the crime. Pretty simple stuff, dear.

Maybe you should be locked up. You've got to be kidding. Hideous crime? Were you a mullah from Iran in a past life or what? Get some perspective man.

[doj_gal]

Deterrents are a nice goal but a better goal, IMHO, in this situation is trying to actually bring some good out of this tragedy. I'd go for the rehabilitation. And anyone who thinks California law operates under a rehabilitative strategy is sorely misguided. The recidivism rate of youth exiting the CYA is 70% or more. Why is that?

It's more like 80-85%...my dad tries to talk to the boys and get them to think out of the box...instruct them in life lessons and teach them to remove themselves from their situations which got them there in the first place....it's hard cause many of the teachers only focus on education...the children need more than the basic education they need guidance...which many of the CYA instructors do not care enough to give...

[ChipShot]

The odds are pretty good that this was NOT the first time these clowns raced, so I want them nailed with as stiff a penalty as humanly possible to send a message to the other "animals in cars" out there.

Also, please call me "Mr. Bloodthirsty Barbarian"......Yes, the shoe fits, and I wear it with pride. Maybe if we start to actually get tough on crime, we'll see less and less of the death, destruction, and mayhem out there. You'll "get it" one day...maybe when YOU are a victim. Karma?? Hmmm...

[supermom]

The odds are pretty good that this was NOT the first time these clowns raced, so I want them nailed with as stiff a penalty as humanly possible to send a message to the other "animals in cars" out there.

Also, please call me "Mr. Bloodthirsty Barbarian"......Yes, the shoe fits, and I wear it with pride. Maybe if we start to actually get tough on crime, we'll see less and less of the death, destruction, and mayhem out there. You'll "get it" one day...maybe when YOU are a victim. Karma?? Hmmm...

Chip...that was out of line. And I gotta say that that Karma--already came and left me in this lifetime. Except it wasn't kids racing or speeding--it was a DUI driver that fell asleep going 80 mph.....

For those who have truly seen justice and the torture of losing someone you love--there is no "getting back" there's no blood thirst that can quench, there's not hunger that can be sated. To assume that you as a non victim can speak for a family is --I am sure--well intentioned--but in truth helps no one involved and hurts everyone intimately involved.

[ChipShot]

For those who have truly seen justice and the torture of losing someone you love--there is no "getting back" there's no blood thirst that can quench, there's not hunger that can be sated. To assume that you as a non victim can speak for a family is --I am sure--well intentioned--but in truth helps no one involved and hurts everyone intimately involved.

OK, then why do we punish ANYONE for ANYTHING ?????

Why do we have laws ???

What's the point ???

Hey, I don't even know the McNews, but I want revenge for THEM. Those "good boys" need to be punished harshly for their vicious, horrendous, willful, and wanton disregard for the safety of society. No, revenge doesn't bring her back from the dead, but it'll make me feel better that they suffer, just like the McNews have suffered. It's a normal human emotion. Embrace it.

[doj_gal]

They aren't and can't be tried for any alleged past racing... so the point is? I still want to know if you do everything in life by the book, never break any laws.

Mr. Shot is perfect..don't ya know!!!!

[ChipShot]

Mr. Shot is perfect..don't ya know!!!!

Not really, just law-abiding, which is rare these days, I guess, judging by alot of these posts from people who want to dismiss the seriousness of the crime that those "fine boys" committed (yes, gross vehicular manslaughter). Excuses, excuses, excuses. That's the problem these days...nobody is held accountable for anything. What a shame. Thank you, libs. Nice job.

[stacycam]

I'm curious. If these kids were drunk instead of speeding, would you feel the same about the consequences? Or if a 4-year-old was killed instead of a woman?

[supermom]

I'm curious. If these kids were drunk instead of speeding, would you feel the same about the consequences? Or if a 4-year-old was killed instead of a woman?

Being drunk and getting in a vehicle is premeditated malicious behavior. Speeding can be as well-definitly racing but in racing and speeding one is assuming the perpetuators of this crime truly believed no one else was close enough to be harmed. Not the case in drunk driving. So I would expect a different outcome for a drunk driver.

I expect their driving privledges to be taken away (permanently but the courts don't do that) monetary allowance to the victims family for life (the courts don't do that) and in cases where DUI was not the first time jail time should be automatic. In addition, I think that if the person has never had a DUI before ; has driven a vehicle for less than 5 years - then the jail time should be substituted with extreme community service--which does not allow for any personal time--with a tracking device on the person 24/7. Also random blood checks with automatic 10 year sentence if caught drinking/drugs during that phase.

No-age doesn't play a difference in the crime for the victim--but I do think it should be a difference for young perpetuators of crimes.

Does that make sense?

[banana]

Good questions, I'll add what if they were only 5 mph over the limit and still killed the lady.

I'd view 5 mph over the limit as an accident, but 25-35-45 mph over the limit is wreckless, with disregard for the law and safety of themselves and others.

[Steve Heard]

Hey Folks

Let's keep the discussion civil. We can fuss and fight, but keep the personal insults out.

We are neighbors, afterall.