148 replies to this topic

[Dave Burrell]

My point is: It is currently defined as a mall since it's 1970's upgrades. Perhaps some key players would like to convert the "mall" into a "lifestyle center"

how about HISTORIC center

[cw68]

how about HISTORIC center

With just museums? or shops and restaurants? A retail/entertainment hub with theaters and the like? HISTORIC center to me sounds like a cultural/museum area.

Not that I wouldn't mind having that here in Folsom, but I'd really like Old Folsom to be a place that residents would go to again and again.

[mylo]

I liked what one speaker said at City Council. He talked about the Ford Dealership, and the Race car manufacturer. Those would be Historic businesses for Sutter St.

[Dave Burrell]

With just museums? or shops and restaurants? A retail/entertainment hub with theaters and the like? HISTORIC center to me sounds like a cultural/museum area.

Not that I wouldn't mind having that here in Folsom, but I'd really like Old Folsom to be a place that residents would go to again and again.

a nice mix would be nice - leaning more twords historical ...and I think it'd be great to expand the museum and cultural center - keeping the emphasis on history more then turning it into a shopping center.

Whats there now is nice - there's a good mix of independent restaurants bars and curio shops. I'd hate to see Starbucks or a commercial restaurant in there.... that would make old town suck (just my opinion)

My hope is that the existing business' remain. we don't need more banks and mall shop outlets, especially in old town

[crossski]

I am having a very hard time with this. I feel I am watching this historic
town of Folsom slip away before my very eyes.

I watched the entire city council meeting saturday morning and am not
seeing enough from our representatives to make sure we do not degrade
what we have in place.

I am ok with removing the medians, but making wide sidewalks is not
historic and neither are automobile turnabouts. What is happening here.
Don't be pushed and prodded by automobiles and mass influx of traffic
and people to destroy our past. Look instead to preserve what we have on Sutter Street. If you have to remove the medians but don't change the sidewalks until much more input is in place. Don't give it all away in one sitting. Let's take small steps not all bundled together but independant ones and see how it goes.

[Darthvader]

I am having a very hard time with this. I feel I am watching this historic
town of Folsom slip away before my very eyes.

I watched the entire city council meeting saturday morning and am not
seeing enough from our representatives to make sure we do not degrade
what we have in place.

I am ok with removing the medians, but making wide sidewalks is not
historic and neither are automobile turnabouts. What is happening here.
Don't be pushed and prodded by automobiles and mass influx of traffic
and people to destroy our past. Look instead to preserve what we have on Sutter Street. If you have to remove the medians but don't change the sidewalks until much more input is in place. Don't give it all away in one sitting. Let's take small steps not all bundled together but independant ones and see how it goes.

Don't worry, your little historic Sutter Street will soon just be another glorified strip mall.

Think of it this way: You know how you go to Disneyland and they have all those "worlds" in different parts of the park, well that's what you'll have on Sutter. It will be all new, clean, and anal and have 0 reality or old time feeling to it. After about 5 years when the "makeover" is done the city council will be trying to find new ways to keep business alive there because it will suck, you'll see.

[Dave Burrell]

Don't worry, your little historic Sutter Street will soon just be another glorified strip mall.

Think of it this way: You know how you go to Disneyland and they have all those "worlds" in different parts of the park, well that's what you'll have on Sutter. It will be all new, clean, and anal and have 0 reality or old time feeling to it. After about 5 years when the "makeover" is done the city council will be trying to find new ways to keep business alive there because it will suck, you'll see.

Optimism isn't your specialty is it?

[Darthvader]

Optimism isn't your specialty is it?

Cmon Dave, look at the trends. Outlet Mall, Palladio Mall, Sutter Street Mall, on and on. There's no originality to any of the designs, etc. It's all just stores and stuff. In fact here's a better analogy:

My brother came here to visit and he was laughing his arse off. I asked why and he said all the store names he saw: "Carpeteria, It's a Grind, Pick up Stix" all looked and sounded like something straight from The Simpsons. Welcome to the new Springfield!

[cw68]

Cmon Dave, look at the trends. Outlet Mall, Palladio Mall, Sutter Street Mall, on and on. There's no originality to any of the designs, etc. It's all just stores and stuff. In fact here's a better analogy:

My brother came here to visit and he was laughing his arse off. I asked why and he said all the store names he saw: "Carpeteria, It's a Grind, Pick up Stix" all looked and sounded like something straight from The Simpsons. Welcome to the new Springfield!

He must be laughing all over America because it's like a cancer that's spreading. Definitely not unique to Folsom.

[newsblaze]

I don't know what the cost is, but I will find that number.
Remember, there are lots of other things going on besides revitalizing Sutter Street.
Anyone who is against this could pull any number out of a hat to discredit it.
- so I will get the numbers as soon as can. (it is not $115 million)

I see people talking about a "strip mall" - anyone who says that obviously has no idea about what is going on. The historic look and feel of the historic district is paramount.

Whatever happens down there has to be approved by the Historic District Commission. Do you think for one second that they will throw out everything they've worked for over the past 50 years to get a strip mall? Do you think the merchants want to destroy the very reason people come to Historic Sutter Street?

Check the story I wrote about the merchant survey:
Folsom Streetscape Survey Results Show Common Ground, Differences

crossski: This has been a two year process involving hundreds of people.

re Starbucks: Just remember this - all those buildings are owned by individual building owners. They can lease to anyone they want. If you owned a building and it was empty and you had to pay the mortgage, would you hold out until you went into foreclosure or lease to Starbucks? That said, nobody wants Starbucks or any other chain on the street, unless it is one that is nowhere else in this area and it fits into the historic district. The aim is to have things you either can't find elsewhere or are rare.

I've seen a few people advocating doing nothing or doing minimal things. They need to read more. Sutter Street has some problems that need to be fixed and a quick patch job will not do it. The big trees are in less than 2 feet of soil. Get up close to them, you will see they are not in good condition. The sewers are clay pipes. They need to be replaced. The shed roofs are in poor condition. The uprights are 4x4 - wouldn't it be nice to have turned wood like they were 100 years ago. The facades are damaged by the shed roofs. There is a lot more...

See the story and find out what the merchants think - I need to get to more of them, but it took a week to research and write that much - I needed to get it out and I'll add more later or do another story on the 800 block merchants.

I really want to see this discussion going somewhere. It is strange to see people assuming the merchants, building owners, City, FHDA, Historical Society, Preservation League and Historic District Commission are a collection of morons that want to destroy Historic Folsom and turn it into a strip mall.

The main issue - that is 80% of the division here - is the removal of the median and using that space in the sidewalks. The other 20% is people sounding off opinions without knowing what is happening. Some people was to do nothing and that basically means let it die a slow death. Changes are desperately needed. Please get involved - there are lots of meetings planned - or join a committee.

I will write stories about issues that aren't clear, as soon as I recognize them. Feel free to tell me what you want to hear about and I will research it.

[4thgenFolsomite]

I have taken a close look at the proposed plan for Sutter Street. We currently have 138 on-street parking spaces from Scott Street to the Lightrail Station. The new plan reduces that number to 75! That means more people will have to park on the lots down hill from Sutter Street or the residential streets. Most people do not want to walk up hill, especially with children or older people. Add to that the upcoming increase in parking demands from the new developments up and down the street. The new Railroad Block will be underparked by about 140 spaces to meet its own needs, Westwood building will be 20 spaces underparked for its own needs and Doug Scalzi's will be underparked by 6 spaces. These developers really can't help it. It's the nature of building in the area. However, that puts an additional 166 spaces in demand on the district. Where will those people park? The parking garage is not going to be sufficient to meet that need. Remember it wasn't that long ago that the entire railroad block was a parking lot and we still needed more. I would imagine more people (especially diners and partiers) will park in the residential areas. The majority will instead choose to shop elsewhere.

However, if we keep the sidewalks at their current width and let on-street parking continue, we can park 185 cars on Sutter Street. If we limited parking on the 700 block and the high curbed areas of the 800 block, we could still have more onstreet parking than we do right now.

By the way, I talked with 15 merchants in the last two weeks about keeping the current sidewalk width and maximizing on street parking. 12 were absolutely in favor of this. Only 3 were against it. One of them owns a major bar/restaurant and wanted to have more night time outdoor dining, but acknowledged it wouldn't be good for daytime stores. Another was against cars on the street at all and wanted to encourage people to use lightrail. While I agree with this sentiment, I think you can't compete in our area as a retailer if you put obstacles in the way of your customers.

The median and awnings are things I don't lose sleep over because these can always be modified in the future. However, widening the sidewalks with modern cut-outs for cars, etc., will be cast in concrete and could cause permanent harm to the district. I don't think the huge reduction in available parking and modernization of the historic sidewalks is worth the trade-off of four or so restaurants being able to add another four or five tables in front of their stores.

[courtknee]

Those trees have shallow root systems. Even if they stay, the street will have to be fixed.

[ovey1]

I'd like to see the whole of Sutter street converted to a bricked pedestrian zone, maintaining the beautiful trees in the median. Restaurants could expand their terraces without impeding pedestrians. The city could install a fountain for kids to play in and hire musicians to play periodically to add to the ambiance.

[4thgenFolsomite]

I'd like to see the whole of Sutter street converted to a bricked pedestrian zone, maintaining the beautiful trees in the median. Restaurants could expand their terraces without impeding pedestrians. The city could install a fountain for kids to play in and hire musicians to play periodically to add to the ambiance.

oh yes, now THAT would be historic!! just not folsom's history.

can't you just see the cattle drive going down around the fountains....