171 replies to this topic

[JoAnne Reinking]

[quote name='MikeinFolsom' date='Jun 5 2010, 09:25 AM' post='386975']
I think I am getting rather tired of JoAnne always attempting to blame the "outrageous" salaries of the teachers as being the prime suspect for all the cuts needing to be made in the education system.

I've never meant to imply that the salaries are "outrageous" or that teachers are over paid- we only have so many ways to offset the deficit. But, I believe you already know this.

How much do YOU make JoAnne?

Me, $404.00 per month.

There has been obviously poor oversight on spending the last several years. Money spent needlessly on crap. How many assistants have assistants that have assistants that have secretaries? Quit looking to the worker bees as the "quick fix"....I know it is the popular stance right now, but it is truly getting quite old.
[/quote]

I respect your input and will continue to look for solutions and question the status quo. Suggestions are always welcome and appreciated.

[sckfc]

I think I am getting rather tired of JoAnne always attempting to blame the "outrageous" salaries of the teachers as being the prime suspect for all the cuts needing to be made in the education system. The district is currently building a Taj Mahal as an office building. Sure the funding for that building is coming from a "different fund". But what about the costs to run that building? These teachers are just like you and I trying to make it work during hard times and support a family and make monthly payments.

Teachers get paid no more or no less than mainstream occupations in California. Their salaries/benefits/retirement packages are all part of their compensation. Quit blaming their AVERAGE salaries as the only fix in the current budget. How much do YOU make JoAnne?

There has been obviously poor oversight on spending the last several years. Money spent needlessly on crap. How many assistants have assistants that have assistants that have secretaries? Quit looking to the worker bees as the "quick fix"....I know it is the popular stance right now, but it is truly getting quite old.

I believe that JoAnne makes $220 per school board meeting.

[sckfc]

no--its actually from a movie.

not sure if I remember which one, anyomore.

the line was"gag me with a spoon"

But, beside the point.

to other OP:

no one is arguing that electives do not hold some value. I find it sad and laughable that someone would say-especially for the rancho side....

The fact is--middle school electives are : art, conversational spanish (only a few kids each year get that, anyway-because it is so limited), typing and technology class. Then there is the music hall. All of them are on the chopping block, still, anyway--right?

kids do art when they do their wonderful greek gods, animals of the seas, literary book reviews--reports.


The music is harder to replace outside of the actual class.

Frankly, that should be the one department that is carefully considered before the others.

But, they are just fluff compared to the major stuff.

Ulitmately, we really need kids who understand math, can read, write and hopefully appreciate the sciences (this is california, afterall!).

I'm not trying to upset the great deal of teachers who participate on this site.

I'm just saying there comes a time when you really do have to completely look at the priorities. Sometimes, that means peeling the dried skin off the onion.

yeah, the skin enhances the flavor and promotes a longer shelflife of the onion--but, the great part about this, is that these are kids, not onions and they can survive without the fluff, and they probably would do better passing the cahsee and getting jobs if they have more class time in the 3 R categories.

Sucks, but true. I don't hear anyone arguing that part. Really, can you?

Can anyone argue that giving the kids more time in the 3 R's would be catastrophic to their education?

They are typing these reports.

So are you saying that it is better to cut electives, and many full time positions that teach those electives, than for everyone to take a cut in pay? Really? It's better to have people on unemployment, than to let them keep their jobs for a little less money?

[Soonerborn]

I think I am getting rather tired of JoAnne always attempting to blame the "outrageous" salaries of the teachers as being the prime suspect for all the cuts needing to be made in the education system. The district is currently building a Taj Mahal as an office building. Sure the funding for that building is coming from a "different fund". But what about the costs to run that building? These teachers are just like you and I trying to make it work during hard times and support a family and make monthly payments.

Teachers get paid no more or no less than mainstream occupations in California. Their salaries/benefits/retirement packages are all part of their compensation. Quit blaming their AVERAGE salaries as the only fix in the current budget. How much do YOU make JoAnne?

There has been obviously poor oversight on spending the last several years. Money spent needlessly on crap. How many assistants have assistants that have assistants that have secretaries? Quit looking to the worker bees as the "quick fix"....I know it is the popular stance right now, but it is truly getting quite old.

You are not alone. Apparently 90% is not convincing enough for our board or the district. It has been suggested to the district several times to cut drivers ed/outsource it with a fee to a company like districts up 50 do, but nothing has been done. Is it too much work right now as the mansion known as the new d.o. is being built? If they were truely worried about saving money, many of the extra ammenities would not be being put in the new building. If I understand correctly, there will be no matching funds from the state, so doesn't the district have to pay for it then? What about the non-voter approved loans the district has had to take out according to their budget? I haven't heard the district mention these outloud yet?

I love how we are being asked to take more "for the team" because of Elk Grove. They have never mentioned how much better Elk Grove teachers have it compared to us. They just want to mention the concessions they are giving, but not the better working conditions they have worked under for years! Please don't just state what they are giving up, but also what they are keeping. Once this is done I think they loose ground because their teachers are treated much better than FCUSD teachers.

[supermom]

They are typing these reports.

So are you saying that it is better to cut electives, and many full time positions that teach those electives, than for everyone to take a cut in pay? Really? It's better to have people on unemployment, than to let them keep their jobs for a little less money?

That is the first fair and truly down to eath question on this topic (in my opinion).

The answer?

If putting 300 teachers families close to the edge of not being able to pay a mortgage, a sudden medical issue for a family member, etc....is a risk, because of continued pay cuts in the face of constant rising costs of living (and it is-except the number, i don't know how many teachers are in the fcusd, at this moment.)

vs...cutting 9 teachers at two sites {maybe count in all middle schools equal ? x teachers)

well...thats a hard decision. Maybe we should ask fiscal conservative? (he hates publiic education and $ waste)


i wonder how many teachers are laughing at my idea to put the janitors on hiatus and have kids cut the grass,clean the bathrooms, etc. in PE?

oi---sounds extreme--but nothing is ever free, especially education.

somebody had to learn the hard way. Might as well teach them that, when they are young--before they get that distasteful sense of entitlement.....

how about we make everyone happy--offer only one elective

life's lessons-101- how to cut grass-prune brush-trim trees-rake leaves-scrape up bubblegum, balance a school budget, clean the cafeteria, bathrooms, man the phones for the secretaries (so they can go on hiatus, too), and type up hall passes.

That is six classes. The kids can rotate subjects through out the year.

[JoAnne Reinking]

you are not alone. Apparently 90% is not convincing enough for our board or the district.



My whole problem with this process (again) has been that teachers were never given the details of what a 6 day agreement would have reinstated. The line was drawn , because of the survey that 3 days was the best option. 90% of 2/3 of your membership is convincing, but we don't know why they voted the way they did or if more options/information would have changed things. It's water under the bridge, I'm grateful that the union is being part of the solution but I maintain my opinion that we could and should continue to look for ways to do better. I look forward to the day ~ when we can discuss what to spend funds on instead of what to cut.


What EGUSD did does not matter, their situation is different and is not a good comparison for our district.

[Soonerborn]

you are not alone. Apparently 90% is not convincing enough for our board or the district.



I look forward to the day ~ when will can discuss what to spend funds on instead of what to cut.


What EGUSD did does not matter, there situation is different and is not a good comparison for our district.

I completely agree. Why does one of FCUSD's board members then have to cite them as the only local school district when discussing the TA? They should have been left out of the conversation, due to like you said, being completely different, or put all the details in to paint a true picture of what happened in Elk Grove. This is why many members are so frustrated with some board members and some parents have a hard time trusting what board members say at times.

When will drivers ed be looked at? If other districts can do it, why can't FCUSD? It has been brought up several times by teachers, but there has not been a response to it yet. Many teachers don't feel every stone has been looked under before cutting jobs.

[aubie84alum]

Can anyone speak to this proposal? Have students clean the classrooms? You're kidding, right? Parents would be down there so fast....Or should the teacher have to do it? Maybe there's a course we can take in how to smile while we clean up your kid's mess.

It's okay to get rid of maintenance? Those folks don't need to make money.....What?

Electives provide so much more than you're saying. The three r's were a different time, a different world. Typing is computer apps., understanding the world wide web, understanding the future...


"When will drivers ed be looked at? "

Can all students in our district afford driver's ed? Seems to me that proposal is not good for all students.


"My whole problem with this process (again) has been that teachers were never given the details of what a 6 day agreement would have reinstated. The line was drawn , because of the survey that 3 days was the best option. 90% of 2/3 of your membership is convincing, but we don't know why they voted the way they did or if more options/information would have changed things. It's water under the bridge, I'm grateful that the union is being part of the solution but I maintain my opinion that we could and should continue to look for ways to do better. I look forward to the day ~ when we can discuss what to spend funds on instead of what to cut."

That is absolutely UNTRUE. Our team gave us current reports regarding all offers. We spent hours discussing them. There were several meetings offered. Some folks chose not to come to them.


What EGUSD did does not matter, there situation is different and is not a good comparison for our district.[/quote]

Why doesn't matter now? It did during negotiations. You wanted teachers to take the same cuts, without the same prior benefits. WOW!

[supermom]

Can anyone speak to this proposal? Have students clean the classrooms? You're kidding, right? Parents would be down there so fast....Or should the teacher have to do it? Maybe there's a course we can take in how to smile while we clean up your kid's mess.

It's okay to get rid of maintenance? Those folks don't need to make money.....What?

Electives provide so much more than you're saying. The three r's were a different time, a different world. Typing is computer apps., understanding the world wide web, understanding the future...


"When will drivers ed be looked at? "

Can all students in our district afford driver's ed? Seems to me that proposal is not good for all students.


"My whole problem with this process (again) has been that teachers were never given the details of what a 6 day agreement would have reinstated. The line was drawn , because of the survey that 3 days was the best option. 90% of 2/3 of your membership is convincing, but we don't know why they voted the way they did or if more options/information would have changed things. It's water under the bridge, I'm grateful that the union is being part of the solution but I maintain my opinion that we could and should continue to look for ways to do better. I look forward to the day ~ when we can discuss what to spend funds on instead of what to cut."

That is absolutely UNTRUE. Our team gave us current reports regarding all offers. We spent hours discussing them. There were several meetings offered. Some folks chose not to come to them.


What EGUSD did does not matter, there situation is different and is not a good comparison for our district.

Why doesn't matter now? It did during negotiations. You wanted teachers to take the same cuts, without the same prior benefits. WOW!

Everybody can dislike belt tightening, changes at the last hour and heel dragging or even arse braying; but, the hard choices have to come from the management and that's what stinks.

The fcusd managment program is all over the place budget goals, budget spending, types of budgets, red lines pink lines and futures coming due.

The whole enchilada with out surprises or oops we forgot.

How about throwing an honest guesstimate out the within a reasonable amount of time: in the states negative condition and use recent historical data to propose how much $ it will affect our district.

In other words-this was seen comming at least 2 years ago. Why is the public not being given more than 2 months notice prior to the school budget suspension date?

How about we start with that question-and who can we release from our services for not using sound proactive judgement with regards to teachers salaries being used as a carrot for school budgeting woes.

[MikeinFolsom]

Exactly the doublespeak I'm talking about. One one hand, it is beneficial for the board to compare the teachers to EG. When the figures benefit them. But when the tables turn, we now SHOULDN'T be using the EG deal.

And we're trusting them to spend our money wisely?

[sckfc]

That is the first fair and truly down to eath question on this topic (in my opinion).

The answer?

If putting 300 teachers families close to the edge of not being able to pay a mortgage, a sudden medical issue for a family member, etc....is a risk, because of continued pay cuts in the face of constant rising costs of living (and it is-except the number, i don't know how many teachers are in the fcusd, at this moment.)

vs...cutting 9 teachers at two sites {maybe count in all middle schools equal ? x teachers)

well...thats a hard decision. Maybe we should ask fiscal conservative? (he hates publiic education and $ waste)


i wonder how many teachers are laughing at my idea to put the janitors on hiatus and have kids cut the grass,clean the bathrooms, etc. in PE?

oi---sounds extreme--but nothing is ever free, especially education.

somebody had to learn the hard way. Might as well teach them that, when they are young--before they get that distasteful sense of entitlement.....

how about we make everyone happy--offer only one elective

life's lessons-101- how to cut grass-prune brush-trim trees-rake leaves-scrape up bubblegum, balance a school budget, clean the cafeteria, bathrooms, man the phones for the secretaries (so they can go on hiatus, too), and type up hall passes.

That is six classes. The kids can rotate subjects through out the year.

Right now, they only have one elective. And they can't do the custodian's work. The union won't allow it. This is not private industry. It's an out of control crazy game.

[sckfc]

Everybody can dislike belt tightening, changes at the last hour and heel dragging or even arse braying; but, the hard choices have to come from the management and that's what stinks.

The fcusd managment program is all over the place budget goals, budget spending, types of budgets, red lines pink lines and futures coming due.

The whole enchilada with out surprises or oops we forgot.

How about throwing an honest guesstimate out the within a reasonable amount of time: in the states negative condition and use recent historical data to propose how much $ it will affect our district.

In other words-this was seen comming at least 2 years ago. Why is the public not being given more than 2 months notice prior to the school budget suspension date?

How about we start with that question-and who can we release from our services for not using sound proactive judgement with regards to teachers salaries being used as a carrot for school budgeting woes.

The public has been given budget information since the school year started. At every Parent Distritct Advisory Committee Meeting, the budget has been discussed. At just about every board meeting, it has been addressed. There have been district forums. There was a Support California Kids Communtity Meeting. There have been Budget Central updates with e-mail notification and Connect Ed calls. All I have been hearing is how the calls have intruded on people's private lives and nobody is reading the e-mails. Who is at fault for that? We all have a responsiblity to read and listen to the information given. It has been there, over and over. This is no surprise!

[supermom]

Mmmm-no.

They only show what they want. They only tell pareents about what want them to hear about.
And you are right. The unions are out of control-driving ca education out of the schoools for favor of employee pay scales.

The public needs to start demanding an overhaul of the way the system works.

Seems more pressing to me than government funded medical insurance-but that is just another indicator that californians just aren't willing to make hard choices.

Politicians. Unions. Greed.--its a wonder my kid can read.

[Howdy]

They are typing these reports.

So are you saying that it is better to cut electives, and many full time positions that teach those electives, than for everyone to take a cut in pay? Really? It's better to have people on unemployment, than to let them keep their jobs for a little less money?

There have been studies and polls done that show pay should be left at the same level and people let go rather than have people take pay cuts to save a few jobs which will probably be still eliminated down the road.

[supermom]

I'm actually not for pinking anyone. Nor am I for cutting pay, benefits nor forcing children to sacrafice their education for other people's mortgages...


What I am saying--is that the responsibilities of these massive budget woes are disgusting.

Everyone of these employers claiming budget woes (in the government) so far have shown serious lack of planning and proactive insurance bumpers in regards to rainy day savings, and discipline in overhiring and over spending.

It falsely led to a "need" of educators whom were hired on thin pipe dreams for careers.

It is disguting. It is disgusting that it is happening in government offices all over the state.