343 replies to this topic

[Robert Giacometti]

The witnesses say they were racing and speeding, the cops say they were racing and speeding, the skid marks indicate speeding, the DA filed manslaughter charges against them, citing gross negligence, yet many keep posters, despite all of the above, despite the fact that they did not witness it the killing, nor are they teen street racing crash experts, keep defending the kids, or saying 'it's impossible for them to have been going that fast', or 'wait for the facts to come out'.

As far as I'm concerned, the facts are out. Two teens driving fast cars were speeding down Iron Point, as many kids and adults do each day. They were likely eyeing one another and having fun, as irresponsible street racing teens will do, when an innocent woman pulled into the intersection, and it was too late for the boys to stop.

Will a conviction do it, or will you say the jury was biased because they were teens? Do the boys have to admit it? If they do so, will you say they were just pleading to a lesser charge to avoid longer jail time?

I don't get all of the denial.

Steve,

Are there witnesses who saw the crash?

Are there witnesses who claim they saw them going 60-80 mph right before hitting the brakes and accident. I was under the impression the witnesses saw them driving in this manner prior to the accident scene.

I've asked the question before about the skid marks.....but does anyone know if the length of the skid marks is from where he first hit his brakes to point of impact or to where the car stopped?

I was under the impression that people are innocent until proven guilty....beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm neither defending nor judging....just trying to get the facts. IMHO....some are convicting the drivers based upon their impression of their behavior/ cars they drive/ and mothers comments. These may be a reflection on their character or values....but aren't relevant to how fast they were going.

Justice is best served by following a process based upon the testimony of the facts and judged by peers. Those of you who want to circumvent the process and judge what happened...feel free to do so...but it doesn't give you the right to judge those who want to follow the process!

[eli]

I believe these kids can go to the sac raceway on excelsior on one or two days a week and race away for 15 bucks.

[UnionBlondie16]

I believe someone asked about the accident on Folsom Blvd and Glenn. I know the people that were in the accident. Really good friends actually. My friend (a girl) let her boyfriend drive her car. A brand new Mini Cooper. Anyway, he decided to street race another car that his friend was driving. He lost control of the car and slammed into some trees. They were both stuck in the vehicle.

Helicopters came and eventually they had to cut the top of the car off to extract them from the vehicle. The girl was critically injured and they didn't think she was going to make it. The boy, by the way, is 15 and doesn't even have a learner's permit.

My friend ended up being okay. She just had stitches on her face and broken a leg. The boy broke his femur. Of course, the friends they were racing sped off to keep out of trouble.

It's a terrible thing. This weekend had a huge affect on me. I'm much more defensive when I drive. I don't race, but I do, however, have to avoid those who do. Hopefully some others will learn from these, too.

My prayers go out to all families affected by this past weekend. God Bless.

[Duke]

Steve,

Are there witnesses who saw the crash?

Are there witnesses who claim they saw them going 60-80 mph right before hitting the brakes and accident. I was under the impression the witnesses saw them driving in this manner prior to the accident scene.

I've asked the question before about the skid marks.....but does anyone know if the length of the skid marks is from where he first hit his brakes to point of impact or to where the car stopped?

I was under the impression that people are innocent until proven guilty....beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm neither defending nor judging....just trying to get the facts. IMHO....some are convicting the drivers based upon their impression of their behavior/ cars they drive/ and mothers comments. These may be a reflection on their character or values....but aren't relevant to how fast they were going.

Justice is best served by following a process based upon the testimony of the facts and judged by peers. Those of you who want to circumvent the process and judge what happened...feel free to do so...but it doesn't give you the right to judge those who want to follow the process!

This matter will likely remain in Juvenile Court and be heard in Adjudication by one of the Superior Court judges (...as a Delinquency case--no jury).

Independent witness accounts are clearly relevant to establish the chain-of-events which caused this disaster. Witness #1 might testify to seeing the high-speed racing, Witness #2 might testify to seeing the impact, Witness #3 might testify to identifying the drivers.

Consider the fact that the DA promptly charged this case. I'm thinking it's a very provable Vehicular Manslaughter w/gross negligence. My humble opinion, of course...

[SST]

The judge called them a "Danger to the Public". I guess the judge was able to "fairly" look at the the driving records and stated that one of the defendents has a little history, besides one report put speeds at 85 Humm are you in denial or do you know these kids. I knew Susan McNew and going to the memorial on Saturday with my 8 and 6 year olds. You need to read what you write based on a person dying...

[SST]

Folsom Police log states the following:
1/13/2007 Traffic Accident - Iron Point Road - Female driver of Shingle Springs sustained fatal injuries after her car was struck by one of two vehicles racing on Iron Point Road. Juvenile drivers of vehicles that were racing were booked at Juvenile Hall.

[Steve Heard]

Steve,

Are there witnesses who saw the crash?

Are there witnesses who claim they saw them going 60-80 mph right before hitting the brakes and accident. I was under the impression the witnesses saw them driving in this manner prior to the accident scene.

I've asked the question before about the skid marks.....but does anyone know if the length of the skid marks is from where he first hit his brakes to point of impact or to where the car stopped?

I was under the impression that people are innocent until proven guilty....beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm neither defending nor judging....just trying to get the facts. IMHO....some are convicting the drivers based upon their impression of their behavior/ cars they drive/ and mothers comments. These may be a reflection on their character or values....but aren't relevant to how fast they were going.

Justice is best served by following a process based upon the testimony of the facts and judged by peers. Those of you who want to circumvent the process and judge what happened...feel free to do so...but it doesn't give you the right to judge those who want to follow the process!

Robert

Is it possible that the boys weren't racing, and were minding their own business when an unfortunate and unavoidable accident occured? Of course. Is it likely? I think not.

The police don't often speculate publicly about incidents. The DA doesn't often file frivolous charges. Witnesses don't generally step forward to make up racing teen stories.

Many 17 year old boys in fast cars do often speed.

So, we have two teenage boys in fast cars, witnesses who saw them racing, skid mark evidence of speeding, a dead woman hit broadside.

I want them to get a fair trial, but my problem is with all of the denial. We've heard everything from 'my son doesn't speed' (despite the above mentioned evidence to the contrary), to 'quit pickin' on kids', to 'there's no way they could have been going that fast', even, 'maybe it was HER fault!'

Yes, we want the boys to get a fair trial, but please don't act as public defender for them.

None of us saw OJ kill his wife, and he wasn't convicted of it, but the evidence sure points in his direction, and we sure have been talking about it for a long time.

In general, but not always, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quack like a duck...

[SST]

Skid speed calculator at
http://www.claimstar...?erube_fh=cstar

The Bee reported 166 ft skid mark. If accurate then the calculator show 58 MPH at impact. Based on the death and dent it was much much faster...

[DrKoz23]

From the SacBee article today...

"Police say the car was traveling at least 60 mph, and probably faster, in a 45 mph zone. The Stealth left left 166 feet of locked-brake skidmarks at the collision scene, Folsom police spokesman Kurt Knudsen said."

That's some pretty damning evidence.

[cw68]

Skid speed calculator at
http://www.claimstar...?erube_fh=cstar

The Bee reported 166 ft skid mark. If accurate then the calculator show 58 MPH at impact. Based on the death and dent it was much much faster...

58MPH after braking. Crazy.

Oh, I forgot. The kids might not have been speeding.

[Robert Giacometti]

Skid speed calculator at
http://www.claimstar...?erube_fh=cstar

The Bee reported 166 ft skid mark. If accurate then the calculator show 58 MPH at impact. Based on the death and dent it was much much faster...

Thanks for the link. This was very helpful.

I got the same number of 58 mph....but is that the minimum speed required to skid 166' at the start of braking? Do you or anybody know if the skid marks are 166" from start of braking to impact or where the vehicle stopped? You can understand how it would affect the calculation.

How does one calculate this when only one tire locks up for the majority of the skid?

Also, it lists tire conditions as a factor that will affect the calculation...how does one do that?

Thanks again....I'm just looking for info before making up my mind.

[Robert Giacometti]

58MPH after braking. Crazy.

Oh, I forgot. The kids might not have been speeding.

How did you come up with that number after braking?

[SandPebble]

I want them to get a fair trial, but my problem is with all of the denial. We've heard everything from 'my son doesn't speed' (despite the above mentioned evidence to the contrary), to 'quit pickin' on kids', to 'there's no way they could have been going that fast', even, 'maybe it was HER fault!'

I find it interesting that with all the "denial" references, it sure seems that many on the boards aren't terribly open minded - it's their way or you are wrong. I don't think it is unreasonable to think that all 3 of the drivers contributed to the accident. Simple fact. I don't see anyone praising these boys - I certainly am not. What they were doing was wrong. But when you take a step back, shun all the emotional aspects of this tragic loss and instead look at every contributing factor to the loss, the vehicle code seems clear to me. IMHO of course.

[Steve Heard]

I find it interesting that with all the "denial" references, it sure seems that many on the boards aren't terribly open minded - it's their way or you are wrong. I don't think it is unreasonable to think that all 3 of the drivers contributed to the accident. Simple fact. I don't see anyone praising these boys - I certainly am not. What they were doing was wrong. But when you take a step back, shun all the emotional aspects of this tragic loss and instead look at every contributing factor to the loss, the vehicle code seems clear to me. IMHO of course.

On the contrary, those who are in denial are the ones with closed minds. They just can't fathom these boys racing, when witnesses saw it, the evidence suggests it, and the DA felt there was enough to file charges on.

Can't you be open to the possibility that the witnesses, police, and evidence could be right?

By the way, there is praise for at least one of the boys. An administrator at Bella Vista called him the 'most important student at school', or something like that.

[cw68]

How did you come up with that number after braking?

The post said, "58MPH at impact." I'd say it's fair to assume that, since there were skid marks, the brakes were applied before impact.