171 replies to this topic

[the_professor]

Are you a two salary kinda' guy? Many of us are not.


Nope - Wife got laid off last year.

[aubie84alum]

Mmmm-no.

They only show what they want. They only tell pareents about what want them to hear about.
And you are right. The unions are out of control-driving ca education out of the schoools for favor of employee pay scales.

The public needs to start demanding an overhaul of the way the system works.

Seems more pressing to me than government funded medical insurance-but that is just another indicator that californians just aren't willing to make hard choices.

Politicians. Unions. Greed.--its a wonder my kid can read.

I don't get how that's the teacher's fault.

[supermom]

I don't get how that's the teacher's fault.

Where,oh freaking where: did I say it is the fault of the teachers?



I believe I said: those whom budget and approve the hiring of teachers....


Don't make me out to be anti teachers. I'm not.

Though I do believe there are some in folsom schools who need to go...

But whatever, I imagine many parents have felt that way-sometime while their children went through the school sytem.

I do believe that "accoutability" is an overused, under enforced and sadly misguided worded in most california public services departments.

I don't get how that's the teacher's fault.

Where,oh freaking where: did I say it is the fault of the teachers?



I believe I said: those whom budget and approve the hiring of teachers....


Don't make me out to be anti teachers. I'm not.

Though I do believe there are some in folsom schools who need to go...

But whatever, I imagine many parents have felt that way-sometime while their children went through the school sytem.

I do believe that "accoutability" is an overused, under enforced and sadly misguided word in most california public services departments.

[tessieca]

Exactly! I'm a little curious...don't you always say how much you value teachers? That "Ha ha!" is a little disconcerting....

That was not a "ha, ha" as in "gotcha." It was more of an LOL that people were saying the COLA wouldn't be shared with teachers. Not laughing at the teachers. You're too sensitive, Aubie.

Sure teachers can opt out of the union. No one forces union members to vote, either. The COLA would only be an issue if there was money coming into the district.

No, they can't really. They still must pay into the union whether they are members or not, just at a lower rate.

I completely agree. Why does one of FCUSD's board members then have to cite them as the only local school district when discussing the TA? They should have been left out of the conversation, due to like you said, being completely different, or put all the details in to paint a true picture of what happened in Elk Grove. This is why many members are so frustrated with some board members and some parents have a hard time trusting what board members say at times.

If you look back several pages, I think the post gave a list of districts that had settled, many for more than 3 days. I haven't heard any board member talk much about EGUSD, although teachers and parents who have attended meetings are raising it.

When will drivers ed be looked at? If other districts can do it, why can't FCUSD? It has been brought up several times by teachers, but there has not been a response to it yet. Many teachers don't feel every stone has been looked under before cutting jobs.

It has been discussed. See minutes of previous meetings. The only thing that might happen in that area would be to make the health/driver's ed elective instead of required. That would allow for fewer teachers only if the students chose other options instead of the school heath/DE. No action has been taken.

[The Average Joe]

Re: teachers

A lot of my friends are teachers...I myself considered teaching. I think it is a great job. I do have a problem with how insulated and whiny many of them are, but overall, great profession and mostly good people (like any other job category).

When it comes to teacher's unions...it is a whole different story.

Here is what I would like our Gov to say and act upon...

Gov Christie rocks...

More common sense from "The Man"

Long but good on NJEA...A mirror of CA

I wish he was running in CA...Pres 2012?

[sckfc]

Mmmm-no.

They only show what they want. They only tell pareents about what want them to hear about.
And you are right. The unions are out of control-driving ca education out of the schoools for favor of employee pay scales.

The public needs to start demanding an overhaul of the way the system works.

Seems more pressing to me than government funded medical insurance-but that is just another indicator that californians just aren't willing to make hard choices.

Politicians. Unions. Greed.--its a wonder my kid can read.

Go to www.supportcakids.com . They need your input and support.

[sckfc]

That was not a "ha, ha" as in "gotcha." It was more of an LOL that people were saying the COLA wouldn't be shared with teachers. Not laughing at the teachers. You're too sensitive, Aubie.


No, they can't really. They still must pay into the union whether they are members or not, just at a lower rate.


If you look back several pages, I think the post gave a list of districts that had settled, many for more than 3 days. I haven't heard any board member talk much about EGUSD, although teachers and parents who have attended meetings are raising it.


It has been discussed. See minutes of previous meetings. The only thing that might happen in that area would be to make the health/driver's ed elective instead of required. That would allow for fewer teachers only if the students chose other options instead of the school heath/DE. No action has been taken.

When I was a freshman, we had health ed/world history. Drivers ed was available for some kids in 0 period and Drivers training was available for some after school. I never got Driver's Ed, but I did get Driver's training. I think there was only enough money for a few sections and if you did not get it, you had to do it privately.
I really don't think that health ed should be an elective.

[rightwingknot]

QUOTE (aubie84alum @ Jun 5 2010, 10:08 AM)
Sure teachers can opt out of the union. No one forces union members to vote, either. The COLA would only be an issue if there was money coming into the district.

No, they can't really. They still must pay into the union whether they are members or not, just at a lower rate.

Check that. Many districts allow teachers to opt out; it's called 'agency fee' status. Teachers must pay the entire amount of dues up front but simply have to fill out a form in October to request the portion back that represents the amount not related to bargaining, which they receive at the end of the school year. It's a very simple process and is outlined in the FCUSD/FCEA Collective Bargaining Agreement.

[Soonerborn]

If you look back several pages, I think the post gave a list of districts that had settled, many for more than 3 days. I haven't heard any board member talk much about EGUSD, although teachers and parents who have attended meetings are raising it.

It has been discussed. See minutes of previous meetings. The only thing that might happen in that area would be to make the health/driver's ed elective instead of required. That would allow for fewer teachers only if the students chose other options instead of the school heath/DE. No action has been taken.

The problem many teachers have with this list is that it does not show a comparison of districts that are similar to FCUSD which, if I remember correctly, the district used when discussing with the union on how much or little of a raise to give a few years ago. Why the need then to throw out districts that aren't local or that have unbelievably better working conditions already? Why not put EGUSD's class size numbers, which are substantially lower in K-5 and 9th even after the TA concessions, health benefits, lifetime medical perks, lottery checks that teacher's received until their TA was agreed to in there then to paint a true picture of why they were able to accomplish what they did? If this was done, people would see how drastically different FCUSD is compared to EGUSD. They are not the same at all! There is no consistency in what the district appears to use when stating their position. If I remember what we were shown a few years back for local districts to compare with, the only one on there (compared to the list a few pages back) was EGUSD. When they got their raises we heard "That is Elk Grove, they're different" and now we are using them as a district to judge furlough days on? Just confused by the different stance now.

In reference to driver's ed, we have friends up 50 who have children taking it through a company that contracts with the district and pays them a fee to use their space, etc. We are under the understanding that the district is actually neting income from this. Has FCUSD looked at doing this to generate revenue instead of just placing it as an elective? My understanding is that this is not required by the state so why not generate income from it if possible?

[Redone]

No, they can't really. They still must pay into the union whether they are members or not, just at a lower rate.

Check that. Many districts allow teachers to opt out; it's called 'agency fee' status. Teachers must pay the entire amount of dues up front but simply have to fill out a form in October to request the portion back that represents the amount not related to bargaining, which they receive at the end of the school year. It's a very simple process and is outlined in the FCUSD/FCEA Collective Bargaining Agreement.

That's what she wrote. They can opt out but still have to pay into the union.
It's known as the Beck decision.

[tessieca]

Why the need then to throw out districts that aren't local or that have unbelievably better working conditions already? Why not put EGUSD's class size numbers, which are substantially lower in K-5 and 9th even after the TA concessions, health benefits, lifetime medical perks, lottery checks that teacher's received until their TA was agreed to in there then to paint a true picture of why they were able to accomplish what they did? If this was done, people would see how drastically different FCUSD is compared to EGUSD. They are not the same at all!

There was no "need." Those were simply taken from the recent headlines.

Re, the comparison to EGUSD (and/or other districts), perhaps if the state were to fund on the same per-student basis for FCUSD and EGUSD, they could do similar things. And, don't bank on EGUSD keeping most of those things you list. They're hurting, even with the agreement.

[Soonerborn]

There was no "need." Those were simply taken from the recent headlines.

Re, the comparison to EGUSD (and/or other districts), perhaps if the state were to fund on the same per-student basis for FCUSD and EGUSD, they could do similar things. And, don't bank on EGUSD keeping most of those things you list. They're hurting, even with the agreement.

The sad part is, even with them hurting and giving up as much as they did, they are still light years ahead of FCUSD when it comes to working conditions. Even if they give more up, the student and working conditions are STILL drastically better. FCUSD seems to bank on Elk Grove in bad times, but don't want to acknowledge them in good times. This is the double speak that has been mentioned in this topic several times. When was the last time K had 24 students or 4-6 had 28 students in FCUSD...and this is after they have reached their TA! My point is that just listing districts throughout the state, to show why FCUSD needs more furlough days, without providing specific information is misleading and unfair. Put comparisons down for the public and teachers to see, so that a detailed agruement one way or the other can be made. Don't we instruct our students to gather the facts before writing a persuasive essay?

[The Average Joe]

"Even if they give more up, the student and working conditions are STILL drastically better. "

Don't forget to add in the intangibles. As someone who has worked in nearly every egusd facility, I can assure you that the "working conditions" are NOT better than Folsom. Having firsthand knowledge of what the EG schools student body and atmosphere were like was what drove me out of there...

Folsom teachers have it good...maybe not "the highest paid", but how much is your safety worth? Or parent involvement? Or a community that values education?
Go teach in Downey, Compton or even Oak Park, and then reevaluate your situation...

Stop whining...

[Soonerborn]

"Even if they give more up, the student and working conditions are STILL drastically better. "

Don't forget to add in the intangibles. As someone who has worked in nearly every egusd facility, I can assure you that the "working conditions" are NOT better than Folsom. Having firsthand knowledge of what the EG schools student body and atmosphere were like was what drove me out of there...

Folsom teachers have it good...maybe not "the highest paid", but how much is your safety worth? Or parent involvement? Or a community that values education?
Go teach in Downey, Compton or even Oak Park, and then reevaluate your situation...

Stop whining...

My point is that if the board wants to compare districts, keep it consistent. We lived in the Elk Grove attendance boundaries and had dealings with several of the schools while doing so. Like all districts, some schools are better than others.

For the Downey comment...taught in a title 1 school for 6 years, where being there after dark or before sunrise wasn't safe, windows were smashed repeateadly, murders right around the corner, buildings were falling apart, students were pulled out by CPS consistently and I had the number memorized and over 90% received free lunch and the rest were reduced basically! So the last comment is irrelevant because I have done so!

[The Average Joe]

mmmhmmm, so how did those working conditions compare to Folsom? And what value would you put on those intangibles?