190 replies to this topic

[Bill Z]

I've been trying to avoid posting too much on this topic as it is obviously a heated subject. That being said, I have to admit I don't disagree with supermom. The words may have been harsh, but ultimately not to far off base. Saying you're sorry and you know you screwed up isn't enough. I'm glad there was a life lesson here, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be some form of punishment to ENSURE the message got through. No offense Pathfinder, but you have to realize there is no reason to believe you weren't smoking pot. Why, just because you said so? I also have to admit if I were in your shoes, first off, I wouldn't even have access to a computer, cell phone, tv, really nothing but oxygen at this point. And if I were you I think I'd be a little more concerned of jail time or other form of punishment aside from what your parents bestow on you. You are just as responsible for this near tragedy as your friend who took the keys. You just seem to be getting defensive and the more you post the less I feel sorry for you and your situation. Seems like there is a lot more to learn and the people on this forum have the right to express their opinion on your mess. You aren't in a position to be defensive.
Just my 2 cents... Oh and just so I'm not accused of being a cold hearted, teen hater... I too am relieved that all teens involved will be ok. This story could have had a much different ending and no one would want this topic to read: "4 teens KILLED in car wreck"

Well said, I too have been wondering why the owner of the vehicle has not been charged with a crime, surely he must be guilty of something as the owner of the vehicle and as the one who handed his keys to an unlicensed drunk driver. although, maybe not, I've tried searching the CA vehicle code and can't find anything other than possession

V C Section 23224 Possession of Alcohol in Vehicle Person Under 21
Possession of Alcohol in Vehicle: Person Under 21
23224. (a) No person under the age of 21 years shall knowingly drive any motor vehicle carrying any alcoholic beverage, unless the person is accompanied by a parent, responsible adult relative, any other adult designated by the parent, or legal guardian for the purpose of transportation of an alcoholic beverage, or is employed by a licensee under the Alcoholic Beverage Control Act (Division 9 (commencing with Section 23000) of the Business and Professions Code), and is driving the motor vehicle during regular hours and in the course of the person's employment. If the driver was unaccompanied, he or she shall have a complete defense if he or she was following, in a timely manner, the reasonable instructions of his or her parent, legal guardian, responsible adult relative, or adult designee relating to disposition of the alcoholic beverage.

(b) No passenger in any motor vehicle who is under the age of 21 years shall knowingly possess or have under that person's control any alcoholic beverage, unless the passenger is accompanied by a parent, legal guardian, responsible adult relative, any other adult designated by the parent, or legal guardian for the purpose of transportation of an alcoholic beverage, or is employed by a licensee under the Alcoholic Beverage Control Act (Division 9 (commencing with Section 23000) of the Business and Professions Code), and possession or control is during regular hours and in the course of the passenger's employment. If the passenger was unaccompanied, he or she shall have a complete defense if he or she was following, in a timely manner, the reasonable instructions of his or her parent, legal guardian, responsible adult relative or adult designee relating to disposition of the alcoholic beverage.

© If the vehicle used in any violation of subdivision (a) or (b) is registered to an offender who is under the age of 21 years, the vehicle may be impounded at the owner's expense for not less than one day nor more than 30 days for each violation.

(d) Any person under 21 years of age convicted of a violation of this section is subject to Section 13202.5.

(e) Any person convicted for a violation of subdivision (a) or (b) is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished upon conviction by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six months, or by both that fine and imprisonment.

[supermom]

Wow, Judge, Jury and Executioner all rolled into one. It seems to me that the authorities ought to make those decisions.

What?

That's a mature attitude about civilization. Let's see.

Make a law. Form a punishment for law breakers.

If not effective-put blinders on-thus ensuring more law breaking and therefore more ruined lives and broken bodies and early graveyards.

Yeah.....


Sometimes....just sometimes......you have to have someone stand up and say, enough is enough.

Turning your head away is simply saying the pain of the accident is enough punishment - its not good enough.

Would you say the same for the person who stole a car, got into a high speed chase and crashed the car?

Is sorry, enough, then?

Don't turn me into the monster.

That job falls squarely onto the shoulders of the 16 and 17 year old felons in this sad story.

[eVader]

Okay, I know I'm the grammar/spelling police, so here's where I get involved in this.....the Bee article said NOT that the incident occurred at 3:30 am, but that the kids were reported to be in serious condition at 3:30 am. Okay? Enough with the 3:30 am and go back and read the article and pay attention. Maybe it wasn't worded in the best way, but that's what it meant.

Thanks Capt Obvious but this was cleared up quite some time ago.

[BobbiMcGee]

Why is this "Pathfinder" kid's parents letting him post on social forums after being at least partially responsible for this terrible accident? What are they thinking? Why does he even have access to a computer?

[Folsombuilder]

What?

That's a mature attitude about civilization. Let's see.

Make a law. Form a punishment for law breakers.

If not effective-put blinders on-thus ensuring more law breaking and therefore more ruined lives and broken bodies and early graveyards.

Yeah.....


Sometimes....just sometimes......you have to have someone stand up and say, enough is enough.

Turning your head away is simply saying the pain of the accident is enough punishment - its not good enough.

Would you say the same for the person who stole a car, got into a high speed chase and crashed the car?

Is sorry, enough, then?

Don't turn me into the monster.

That job falls squarely onto the shoulders of the 16 and 17 year old felons in this sad story.

What?

That's a mature attitude about civilization. Let's see.

Make a law. Form a punishment for law breakers.

If not effective-put blinders on-thus ensuring more law breaking and therefore more ruined lives and broken bodies and early graveyards.

Yeah.....


Sometimes....just sometimes......you have to have someone stand up and say, enough is enough.

Turning your head away is simply saying the pain of the accident is enough punishment - its not good enough.

Would you say the same for the person who stole a car, got into a high speed chase and crashed the car?

Is sorry, enough, then?

Don't turn me into the monster.

That job falls squarely onto the shoulders of the 16 and 17 year old felons in this sad story.

Supermom, what ages are your children?

[BobbiMcGee]

supermom said:


"this kid isn't sorry.

Tell me follks- why is everyone going easy on him?
What, because he came on here and said it is him?

How about asking- why weren't you arrested for possession of marijuana and marijuana products that were in your vehicle?

Why weren't you arrested fro knowingly giving your keys to an unlicensed, drunk, underage person?

Why aren't your parents in jail for the exact same reasons, mentioned above?

There is absolutely no acceptance for this behavior.

I am absolutely, 100% relieved that none of these kids died.
And we really don't know if any of these kids will have any lasting issues, just word of mouth by the kid who gave his keys away.

All of these kids should be in jail. For a long time. Every one of them. Period.

Hows that for teaching the kids at Vista and Folsom Highschools that drinking and driving is incredibly stupid and life altering?

Alter their lives and maybe, someone will respond by not putting the key in the ignition.

Highschool is too good for these kids.

They should be in jail."

I absolutely agree, supermom.

[doj_gal]

Give it a rest people. These teens will be dealt with as the lovely FPD sees fit. Gotta a problem with the fact that little to no punishment will be given, start with FPD and work your way up to the Attorney General. Which at this point is working on his Govenor campaign and has always been more concerned with enviroment crimes than any other types.

As far as his parents punishing, it's up to his parents. The fact that you are sooooo concerned with revenge is starting to frighten others and possibly Pathfinder, that or he's in trouble, working off his punishment...or heck has a life outside of telling others what to do on the computer!

[supermom]

Supermom, what ages are your children?

My oldest child is an incoming freshman. And a member of this forum.

She has been keeping abreast of this thread-and we have been talking quite a bit- about why dui is so unacceptable.

She nearly lost her mother and unborn brother because of a drunk driver-12 years ago.

A year later her mother watched a friend get discharged from the army-a hospital and get lifeflighted to go live the duration of his life with his mother as a quadriplegic after a drunken dive into the shallow end of a pool

Her mother saw several friends in high school and other places get hurt due to accidents.

Her mother went to 5 soldiers memorial (4 were 19 years old-the other woman was the "victim-my platoon sergeants wife-it was a bad week-waiting to see if she would survive a headlong collision-obviously she didn't) after they had been out drinking and driving.

Her mother watched an entire installation get put on lockdown after a 2nd lieutenant went drinking and driving and ran over a local national, which created a riot.

So yes, if you were going to ask me how much experience I have in teen drinking and driving....


} have seen the carnage of alcohol and vehicles.

Friendships destroyed.

Passionate love affairs abruptly terminated.

Military mission capability compramised by death.

A mans first car ruined (he was pretty upset by that)

And a whole lot of faith, trust, hope hurt beyond relational repair.

And it is such an avoidable thing.

Dui accidents are not accidents. People know when they are partaking in alcohol and that it is illegal.


You really think I'm the bad message sender?

I'm not the silence-condoning the behavior.
I'm not the parent drinking that glass of wine and showing a good role modeling behavior by then driving that kid home.
I'm not the parent going to bars and getting drunk and driving home (though I will call a taxi after one beer)
I'm not the prior teen who nearly killed a friend in a drunken fling with death.

I do speak out passionately for the publics right to safe roads and a parents desire to see their kids survive (it only takes one willing to drive)
I make my kids get in the taxi with me after I have had that glass of wine at a restaurant.
I have been a designated driver/walker (because ...oh my god...the ditches in korea are deep)

Please don't infer that because my freshman is not 16-that I can't know what I'm saying.
Because she knows-if she does something this terrible-I won't pick her up from the juvenile hall.

They can keep her. I'll pay the child support. Gladly. Rather than have a killer one bedroom away.

[doj_gal]

Studies have shown that most people who get DUIS are driving at about a .08 to 1.0 blood alcohol level.

Those same studies/statistics have also shown, that people who drive with passengers and talk, while sleepy, text, talk on their cell phones or play with their radio station channels have more accidents while in the test case senario and in real life and drive at about a 1.5 or greater level.

Now, I am not in any way condoning alcohol use while driving...after even a sip you should not drive. I am just saying that being a distracted driver is just as deadly. Due to being young and stupid I have gotten tickets in the past for driving. I however take a very different approach while driving. I keep my 100% focus where it should be, on the road. No bluetooth calls. I completley pull over in a safe area to make or recieve any calls. I leave the radio on whatever is on when I take off. I limit my coversations in the car. If my son throws a fit, we pull over. I make the safest decisions possible and would rather be late than dead.

People in general are too casual when they drive and need to take it as a life or death situation. This video sums up the idiocy of what happens when you do not priortize driving. This is for mature viewers only!!!

http://www.facebook....=...1607&ref=mf

[GoodFellas]

Studies have shown that most people who get DUIS are driving at about a .08 to 1.0 blood alcohol level.

Those same studies/statistics have also shown, that people who drive with passengers and talk, while sleepy, text, talk on their cell phones or play with their radio station channels have more accidents while in the test case senario and in real life and drive at about a 1.5 or greater level.

Now, I am not in any way condoning alcohol use while driving...after even a sip you should not drive. I am just saying that being a distracted driver is just as deadly. Due to being young and stupid I have gotten tickets in the past for driving. I however take a very different approach while driving. I keep my 100% focus where it should be, on the road. No bluetooth calls. I completley pull over in a safe area to make or recieve any calls. I leave the radio on whatever is on when I take off. I limit my coversations in the car. If my son throws a fit, we pull over. I make the safest decisions possible and would rather be late than dead.

People in general are too casual when they drive and need to take it as a life or death situation. This video sums up the idiocy of what happens when you do not priortize driving. This is for mature viewers only!!!

http://www.facebook....=...1607&ref=mf

WoW...INTENSE VIDEO

[tigerlily6]

WoW...INTENSE VIDEO

Yes, it was intense. Maybe some parents should show their driving children this video. Will it help? Only if your child's brain is like an adult
Years ago, my 16 year old brother was killed when his car was hit on a train track. He drove onto the train track with his radio blaring. I found the graphic insurance pictures in my father's desk after he died. I saved them to show to my own kids when they started driving. I thought it would make a huge impact.
I learned later that they made fun of the pictures as they drove around Folsom drunk and stoned with their friends. They felt invincible because of the way their brain is wired. Most kids cannot see the consequences of their actions. All things happen to someone else.
I have no advice to give except to love and cherish your children with everything you have.
Once they are older, you can't monitor every minute, but you can ASK a lot of questions.
I FEEL for the parents of these kids.

[supermom]

Its an unbelievably ridiculous attempt to displace blame by comparing inattention of a cell phone user to driving drunk.


Let me ask this.

How many people who have been directly involved in a teen DUI crash, would feel ok about seeing legislation that all vehicles which drivers under a certain age (some say 25, some say 21 or 18) must have a vehicle lock out system breathalyzer?

Would you support that legislation?

Meaning, before your teen gets licensed and insured-a lockout must be installed?

What if the law encompasses all vehicles the child may have access to?

How far would you go to accept this equipment as a necessary lifesaver-like a seatbelt saves lives?

We know pictures and movies don't work.

We know they might sneak the keys after a parent falls asleep.

How far can a teen get when the car just doesn't start?

[chris v]

Its an unbelievably ridiculous attempt to displace blame by comparing inattention of a cell phone user to driving drunk.


Let me ask this.

How many people who have been directly involved in a teen DUI crash, would feel ok about seeing legislation that all vehicles which drivers under a certain age (some say 25, some say 21 or 18) must have a vehicle lock out system breathalyzer?

Would you support that legislation?

Meaning, before your teen gets licensed and insured-a lockout must be installed?

What if the law encompasses all vehicles the child may have access to?

How far would you go to accept this equipment as a necessary lifesaver-like a seatbelt saves lives?

We know pictures and movies don't work.

We know they might sneak the keys after a parent falls asleep.

How far can a teen get when the car just doesn't start?

They can and will always find a way around it. Get a sober friend to blow into it...

[Dave Burrell]

Parents should always hold off on allowing their teens get drivers licenses until they can prove they are responsible enough to deserve to drive, that starts with getting good grades at school, don't give a license to a kid who isn't at least getting C's or better (A's and B's preferred).

If they can't be responsible at school and get good grades, they sure as hell won't be responsible driving.

IMO, most teens shouldn't be allowed to drive until they are 18, most are too immature and irresponsible (as evidenced with this accident)

The problem around here is too many parents don't care, they have latch key kids, they throw money at their kid to get them out of their face, they let their kid get licensed, they buy them a fast car, pay their insurance etc, they teach zero about being responsible, they reward for failure...this teaches teens to be irresponsible - it all starts at home with what the parents teach and what they allow to happen.

Another important note - teens are not allowed to drive with any other passengers, that was just the first of many things these kids did that was wrong that night...

[2kids4me]

Its an unbelievably ridiculous attempt to displace blame by comparing inattention of a cell phone user to driving drunk.

Actually, talking on the cell phone while driving impairs your ability to drive the same as driving drunk. And texting while driving is TWICE as dangerous as drunk driving. I know that wasn't your point, but I did want to mention it.

From the sounds of things, the only real way to prevent your kids from getting into trouble is to be pretty strict, and pray they have decent judgment. I think parents these days give their children WAY too much freedom. Too many times I have heard, "that's what all the kids do." I remember when I was in HS and "all the kids" were partying, smoking pot, sneaking out late, and my parents managed to keep me away from that. How did they do it? They were on my a$$. I wasn't allowed to go to parties unless they talked to the parents and it was supervised by adults (e.g. no alcohol), I had an 11pm curfew except for school dances (straight home after the dance), and they waited up when I did come home. I guess I wasn't sneaky enough to try to get away with lying. I knew I'd get caught anyway - and I'd be in BIG trouble.

I thought my parents were so mean, but now I'm glad they were. They still let me make plenty of mistakes, but they were never that serious.

eta: Also, I was NEVER home alone. Not for a minute. My boyfriend hated it, but I graduated HS a virgin.