195 replies to this topic

[Robert Giacometti]

Can I answer though?

There are many different reasons why someone would move to a certain community, so I don't think it's in direct opposition to their beliefs/values to move to a politically opposite community.

Since you are one of the few DEMs on here who participate in the political dicussion, I didn't feel that you should have to answer every question out there on behalf of the DEMS. That is why I wasn't directing the question to you, but thanks for your response.

Regarding your response above, I agree with what you wrote. The part I don't understand is why would any person DEM or REP, seek out desirable a city to live, then once living there then continue with their political philosophies, if they don't match the collective philosophies of the city they are living in?

It seems that if I chose to pick out a DEM leaning city because of its desirability, then maybe I should be rethinking my political beliefs, because they aren't matching my actions. I'm wondering how many DEMS on here who CHOSE to live in Folsom, because of its desirability, ever do this?

[caligirlz]

In all honesty, our referendum system has messed us up as bad as the politicians have. Should the people have a voice in the process? Yes. But there needs to be a reform on our current system (a constitutional amendment should take more than just 8% signatures of the last number of voters who voted in the last gubernatorial election, it shouldn't be so easy to change the constitution, it should be more difficult).

Ok, forgive my ignorance here (& going off topic per Rich_T), is every bill that is passed considered a constitutional amendment? If that is true, somehow that just sounds scary. I think I must've been in denial to even need to ask the question...

I totally agree that it should be more difficult to change the constitution, by BOTH special group initiatives and by our incompetent politicians.

If/when I decide to move away, I will be taking the political makeup of the community I'm looking at before deciding to move there. Would I pick a community that is more conservative like Folsom? Maybe. Would I get involved in the local community and make sure that even though I may be in the minority that my voice be heard? Yes (although I have been focusing more on state politics than local politics in my young adult life). I don't think of the actions of the political minority as changing the community but more of wanting to be represented within their community, but I will say that there is a proper way of doing it.

There are many different reasons why someone would move to a certain community, so I don't think it's in direct opposition to their beliefs/values to move to a politically opposite community.

Swmr, if you do move away, please stay active on myfolsom & keep the rest of us on our toes. The forum would not be the same without you.

IMO, people move to communities for the same reason you or I would move to a community - good quality of life, reputation, good schools, close to work centers, access to entertainment (the arts, sports, the outdoors, etc), family. Basically, everyone really wants the same thing, they just have different beliefs in how the government should be run to support that quality of life.

I've never really heard any dems complain about all the repubs moving in & taking over the town, but I have certainly heard about the opposite affect.

But that's what you get in a democratic society.

I was always under the impression (& I learned in school) that America is (or was) a Constitutional Republic. In your opinion, when did it change to a Democracy, and why do you think it changed? Do you think there is any difference between the Constitutional Republic & Democracy?

[caligirlz]

Regarding your response above, I agree with what you wrote. The part I don't understand is why would any person DEM or REP, seek out desirable a city to live, then once living there then continue with their political philosophies, if they don't match the collective philosophies of the city they are living in?

It seems that if I chose to pick out a DEM leaning city because of its desirability, then maybe I should be rethinking my political beliefs, because they aren't matching my actions. I'm wondering how many DEMS on here who CHOSE to live in Folsom, because of its desirability, ever do this?

Why??? That's a crazy assumption! Why would you change your beliefs or values just to mix in with everyone else? That suggests to me that the person who would consider doing that, let alone do it, doesn't know who they are as a person. It's one thing if you choose not to discuss your personal beliefs because of, say, the corporate culture you work in, but to change your personal beliefs to fit into the herd....I think that would be one miserable person in short time.

[swmr545]

Ok, forgive my ignorance here (& going off topic per Rich_T), is every bill that is passed considered a constitutional amendment? If that is true, somehow that just sounds scary. I think I must've been in denial to even need to ask the question...

I totally agree that it should be more difficult to change the constitution, by BOTH special group initiatives and by our incompetent politicians.



Swmr, if you do move away, please stay active on myfolsom & keep the rest of us on our toes. The forum would not be the same without you.

IMO, people move to communities for the same reason you or I would move to a community - good quality of life, reputation, good schools, close to work centers, access to entertainment (the arts, sports, the outdoors, etc), family. Basically, everyone really wants the same thing, they just have different beliefs in how the government should be run to support that quality of life.

I've never really heard any dems complain about all the repubs moving in & taking over the town, but I have certainly heard about the opposite affect.



I was always under the impression (& I learned in school) that America is (or was) a Constitutional Republic. In your opinion, when did it change to a Democracy, and why do you think it changed? Do you think there is any difference between the Constitutional Republic & Democracy?

So not all initiatives are constitutional amendments. However to qualify an amendment to the ballot, you need roughly 8% (or 12%, can't remember off the top of my head) of the signatures of how many people voted in the last gubernatorial election (so if 100 people voted, you only need 8 or 12 [depending on the percentage] to sign your petition or an amendment). I think that number should be way higher and not so ridiculously low (it's the lowest in te nation I think, or one of the lowest).

If the legislature wants to pass an amendment they have to either do a 2/3 vote then have the people vote, or they can have a special interest group do the amendment for themvia ballot (most of the time they do the latter).

In regards to a republic vs. democracy, you're correct in saying we are a constitutional republic, however our initiative process in this state is democracy since it is the people and not our representatives voting on the issue. Our founding fathers never wanted us to be a true democracy because they didn't trust the people. I think our state has proven that with the ballot box legislating we have done.

[Robert Giacometti]

Why??? That's a crazy assumption! Why would you change your beliefs or values just to mix in with everyone else? That suggests to me that the person who would consider doing that, let alone do it, doesn't know who they are as a person. It's one thing if you choose not to discuss your personal beliefs because of, say, the corporate culture you work in, but to change your personal beliefs to fit into the herd....I think that would be one miserable person in short time.

I'm NOT saying one should change their beliefs to fit in.

If you are a person who believes in less Government ( REP) and you choose to live in SF because of the great Government programs they provide, maybe its time for that person to reevaulate their beliefs?

If you believe that Government should be more involved in providing programs for people(DEM), then its puzzling why this person would choose to live in a city like Folsom that typically allocates more of its resources to Public safety and basic services, compared to social programs.

In both examples above, the person is choosing to live in a city for reasons that are inconsistent with their core beliefs, so I'm asking do people ever reevaluate their core beliefs to be consistent with their actions?

[cw68]

Regarding your response above, I agree with what you wrote. The part I don't understand is why would any person DEM or REP, seek out desirable a city to live, then once living there then continue with their political philosophies, if they don't match the collective philosophies of the city they are living in?

OMG, it's like a political version of "A Raisin in the Sun." WOW.

[Robert Giacometti]

I pick a place to live based on work in the area and how much I like the place.

So we agree that we pick a place to live based upon work and if we like that area.

What are the factors that go into deciding if we like that place....maybe low crime rate, recreational ammenties good infrastructure and solid basic services?

Communities that have needle exchange programs, enhanced welfare programs and maybe higher rates of subsidized housing....do you think those are attractive features that you may like to live in and around in your community? When communities are spending tax dollars on these programs....it takes tax dollars away from other programs, like Public Safety, recreation and basic services.

Do you think new companies are going to locate in communities that have higher percentages of the above characteristics or one that has lower crime rates and recreational amenities for their employers?

Every decesion that is made by our elected officials affects us in some way and there is a cost associated with it. Its too bad a majority of the people can't comprehend this issue. An Example would be teaching about gays in school. There will be a cost for all new textbooks, additionl training, cost to maintain compliance and the additional cost associated with all the litigtion this law will bring about. Where are those tax dollars going to come from for these costs?

Folsom isn't a place you like, because of chance. Its reflective of the collective philosophy of the community that shaped what it is. That is why I wonder why do people seek out to live in communities for their desirability based upon characteristics that are NOT consistent with that person's core beliefs?

[Robert Giacometti]

OMG, it's like a political version of "A Raisin in the Sun." WOW.

Usually, when a topic goes over my head and I don't get it, I try and ask questions to become better informed rather that expose my lack of understanding. I guess there are different ways of handling things.

[cw68]

Usually, when a topic goes over my head and I don't get it, I try and ask questions to become better informed rather that expose my lack of understanding. I guess there are different ways of handling things.

I completely get it and haven't "exposed" any lack of understanding. What you're promoting is like is supposed to live with like.

[Robert Giacometti]

I completely get it and haven't "exposed" any lack of understanding. What you're promoting is like is supposed to live with like.

Sorry CW, but you completely missed it and am NOT promoting what you claim.

What I am asking is do people ever stop and reevaulate their core beliefs based upon the choices they make in seeking out the desirable characteristics of communities to live?

The choices we make are far more reflective of our personal beliefs than the things we say.

[cw68]

Sorry CW, but you completely missed it and am NOT promoting what you claim.

What I am asking is do people ever stop and reevaulate their core beliefs based upon the choices they make in seeking out the desirable characteristics of communities to live?

The choices we make are far more reflective of our personal beliefs than the things we say.

I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make. You can't understand why people wouldn't want to live with other like people. In "A Raisin in the Sun" John Fielder's character couldn't understand why the Younger family didn't agree with or understand the neighborhood's desire for all to live with their "own people." In your case you're using political philosophies instead of skin color.

There are SO many reasons why people choose to live where they do! My reasons for choosing Folsom were mainly its proximity to employment and outdoor recreation. No need to re-evaluate anything. Politics had nothing to do with it, not to mention I don't have a need to be surrounded by people who agree with me (obviously, I moved to Folsom).

[Robert Giacometti]

You can't understand why people wouldn't want to live with other like people.

Can you show me where I said this?

[Robert Giacometti]

There are SO many reasons why people choose to live where they do! My reasons for choosing Folsom were mainly its proximity to employment and outdoor recreation. No need to re-evaluate anything. Politics had nothing to do with it, not to mention I don't have a need to be surrounded by people who agree with me (obviously, I moved to Folsom).

At some point your employer had to get a permit to build or occupy the building and/or a license to operate the business. There had to be an approval of policies by the elected officials at some point for this to happen. There was MOST definitely political process to go through to allow this to happen. IF the community had elecetd people who were opposed to your business being here you wouldn't have the job you do.

The recreation you mentioned was either approved by elected officials at some point or if it was created by the almighty, was preserved by elected officials so it too was part of the political process some point.

To say politics had "NOTHING" to do why you are here is very inacurate indeed.

These examples show how people can't seem to understand how politics affect almost everything in our lives.