177 replies to this topic

[Rich_T]

No, sorry-- I never said this is a gay thing. Someone else said this was about hating the gay haters. I think.

When you show high profile cases of people doing 'wrong-doings'= you will be hard pressed to find cases where they were fired--unless they actually committed a crime( felony, or misdemeanor, or even getting a speeding ticket while driving a company car). OR, they were doing the wrongdoing, while working, wearing a uniform, on business property...etc.

At that point this argument becomes moot.

Now if someone tells me, this guy took an unauthorized break and left his place of business, then I would say that that is what he was fired for. However, the company still misrepresented this " privacy violation" by stating he was fired because they do not agree with his political stance.

You've got me confused, so maybe I had better bow out of this particular discussion. Now that I remember, CarlG said that it was actually reported that the man resigned when the video went viral, in which case he was not fired at all. So was he really fired, or was he compelled to resign? It seems like almost the same thing, but the two outcomes are probably treated differently by the law.

And did they actually say they disagreed with his stance on gay marriage (I doubt it), or are you just inferring that?

[supermom]

You've got me confused, so maybe I had better bow out of this particular discussion. Now that I remember, CarlG said that it was actually reported that the man resigned when the video went viral, in which case he was not fired at all. So was he really fired, or was he compelled to resign? It seems like almost the same thing, but the two outcomes are probably treated differently by the law.

And did they actually say they disagreed with his stance on gay marriage (I doubt it), or are you just inferring that?

I was not inferring any religious/gay statements upon this particular subject. My comments have been solely based upon the employers response to the employees behavior.

There are other posters who made comments about even anti gay supporters believing the person should be fired just because he acted like a jerk.

Could you imagine how many unemployed people there would be if employers fired all the jerks in their establishments?

[The Average Joe]

splitting hairs over something that isn't even part of conversation. Negligence, gross incimpetence, or tardniess

yeah sure. Have you ever fired someone because they said they think someone is morally repressed in their polcitacal sexual beliefs while not working?

No?

Because you know it can be challenged.

I have never hired someone that stupid. But I have fired someone because they were generally unpleasant to work with. I have also fired someone for their off-duty actions with alcohol and/or drugs. I have even fired someone with obviously suspect moral character (he stole from others). I don't need someone who can't work with others. Is that a protected class as well?
I don't hire someone to give them a job, I hire them to make me money. If their actions COST me money, I have no use for them. I am not a babysitter or sugardaddy. Now I just work by myself. No whining, no hand holding, no monday morning calls for bail...so much simpler.

Typically, someone as stupid as this CFO tends to make other bad decisions.

You can be "fired" from the armed services for conduct unbecoming, and that covers a lot of ground. You can be fired from Congress for personal beliefs. No one is guaranteed a job (unless you are tenured ). You have every right to speak your mind, but if you reflect poorly on your place of work, they are not required to enable your bad decisions

[Rich_T]

I put an application in at a top corporation once. Upon being approved to be their employee, I had to read and then sign a paper, acknowledging that I could quit without notice and they could dismiss me without notice.

I think that is called, “The Right To Work Act”, but not sure.

If that “jerk” worked at such a company and signed such an paper, he could very well be fired without any reason at all. Because, no reason is called for under that agreement.

Most large US companies have "at will" contracts - you can supposedly be fired for any reason or no reason at all, with or without notice. Likewise, you can quit without notice and without giving a reason. But I'm not so sure it's legal in California to "terminate" an employee without notice AND without giving a reason.

[caligirlz]

Most large US companies have "at will" contracts - you can supposedly be fired for any reason or no reason at all, with or without notice. Likewise, you can quit without notice and without giving a reason. But I'm not so sure it's legal in California to "terminate" an employee without notice AND without giving a reason.

I'm pretty sure the "at will" contract is legal. My company operates under that premise, and people have been escorted out of the building with no warning other than a short little "you're being canned" meeting..sometimes chair side, sometimes in an office. However, in most situations, management goes out of their way to work with people who aren't meeting the company/departmental goals.

[Rich_T]

I'm pretty sure the "at will" contract is legal. My company operates under that premise, and people have been escorted out of the building with no warning other than a short little "you're being canned" meeting..sometimes chair side, sometimes in an office. However, in most situations, management goes out of their way to work with people who aren't meeting the company/departmental goals.

Yeah, the box on a Friday afternoon... and usually it's nothing to do with performance, but is about some layoff directive from the CEO. I've never actually witnessed that first hand, but have often heard about it happening. I vaguely remember someone saying it was different in California, but maybe not - or maybe it's that they still owe you pay for unused vacation in CA, but not in most other states.

[bordercolliefan]

Employment in California is "at will." That means the employer can terminate you at any time, for any reason. It doesn't matter if the reason is unfair, as long as the reason is not discriminatory (i.e., a protected class). Thus, for example, your boss could fire you to make room for his daughter, even if you were more qualified than his daughter.

The exceptions are public employees and unions, because in both cases they have negotiated restrictions on the employer's ability/procedure to fire employees.

[supermom]

Employment in California is "at will." That means the employer can terminate you at any time, for any reason. It doesn't matter if the reason is unfair, as long as the reason is not discriminatory (i.e., a protected class). Thus, for example, your boss could fire you to make room for his daughter, even if you were more qualified than his daughter.

The exceptions are public employees and unions, because in both cases they have negotiated restrictions on the employer's ability/procedure to fire employees.

Fairs Labor still has stipulations on "at will" being used for retribution that is not work related.

No, it is rarely enforced. Probably because people fired can't afford a lawsuit to challenge it in court <go figure>.

But, Yes, I do have a grasp on "at will" methods; and yes, employers (especially small businesses) must be very careful how they fire people.

[caligirlz]

Yeah, the box on a Friday afternoon... and usually it's nothing to do with performance, but is about some layoff directive from the CEO. I've never actually witnessed that first hand, but have often heard about it happening. I vaguely remember someone saying it was different in California, but maybe not - or maybe it's that they still owe you pay for unused vacation in CA, but not in most other states.

I've worked at a company were we were all suddenly laid off without any warning because they were shutting down the entire shop. I was there as a contractor & it sure would've been nice to have some forewarning. Some of the benefits were, however, that I got to take home my specially order chair & other special supplies my company purchased for me.

I've also seen this happen at my current company when they are getting rid of middle management, and most frequently for performance issues of both long standing & temp employees. I would assume the long standing employee had already been on a performance plan. In one case, I didnt even realize a guy sitting near me had the "your canned" talk until he was packing his personal belongings & security came to escort him out the door. I've seen other times here, were people are escorted out before they even have time to collect their personal belongings. Another longstanding employee who had resigned & given a 2 week notice, was escorted out a few days early. for some weird reason, management had decided she was a threat (which was absurd). They promised to ship her personal belongings, but then refused to clean out her desk. I got the job 2 months later when I moved to her cubicle. The boss still refused to sort through or ship her belongings even though the ex-employee was calling & requesting her belongings. The boss wanted me to keep the stuff at my desk. I left in on her desk in boxes. totally inappropriate boss behavior.

[nomad]

I've worked at a company were we were all suddenly laid off without any warning because they were shutting down the entire shop. I was there as a contractor & it sure would've been nice to have some forewarning. Some of the benefits were, however, that I got to take home my specially order chair & other special supplies my company purchased for me.

I've also seen this happen at my current company when they are getting rid of middle management, and most frequently for performance issues of both long standing & temp employees. I would assume the long standing employee had already been on a performance plan. In one case, I didnt even realize a guy sitting near me had the "your canned" talk until he was packing his personal belongings & security came to escort him out the door. I've seen other times here, were people are escorted out before they even have time to collect their personal belongings. Another longstanding employee who had resigned & given a 2 week notice, was escorted out a few days early. for some weird reason, management had decided she was a threat (which was absurd). They promised to ship her personal belongings, but then refused to clean out her desk. I got the job 2 months later when I moved to her cubicle. The boss still refused to sort through or ship her belongings even though the ex-employee was calling & requesting her belongings. The boss wanted me to keep the stuff at my desk. I left in on her desk in boxes. totally inappropriate boss behavior.

If you resign or quit from a job why should you be allowed to even come back the next day? Of course they have to return her belongings but there is no reason for an ex-employee to hang around for 2 weeks before they officially leave.

[caligirlz]

If you resign or quit from a job why should you be allowed to even come back the next day? Of course they have to return her belongings but there is no reason for an ex-employee to hang around for 2 weeks before they officially leave.

Usually, when people give 2 weeks notice, the company wants people to stick around, tie up loose ends & pass on their projects, &/or in a production environment, produce. I think the situation with this particular employee was unique. Management claimed it was the higher ups who wanted her out, and their hands were tied. But, I was her friend, so I was aware of the inside scoop. They wanted her out, now. It has only been people on the rumored "sh** list" who have received this treatment.