192 replies to this topic

[lastexit78]

All we are saying is compare apples with apples. Not oranges to apples.

Raley Field and Pac Bell Park are both baseball stadiums... not arenas. The Staples Center in Los Angeles cost $400M to build in 1999. This would be a better comparison. The construction costs of an arena are quite different than an open air stadium.

I am currently leaning toward "No" because of all the unanswered questions... and I am starting to feel there is a better way to finance the arena.

Your right, it's not the cost of this thing that's scaring people away for the most part. It's the form of financing and the fact that the details are way too cloudy. Like I said before, the Maloofs haven't even joined the cause as of yet. At their fandemonium event they wouldn't even allow an informal booth to be set up by the pro Q & R campaign. Basically were supposed to hand the county 1 billion dollars and trust that they will spend it correctly? We don't even know if this project will end up downtown. Or if the Kings will even play in this arena. The Kings aren't owned by the city. They're owned by a group of billionaires who have the right to move them where they choose. I think if they would have honestly laid out this plan and asked for the proper 2/3 vote I might have voted for it. If you have a lousy deal and your honest about it, I can at least respect that. But when you have a lousy deal and you try to find loopholes and lies to get it done, I don't accept that. This thing should have been at least partially funded through ticket fees and seat licenses of some sort. That's how most of these sports arenas, stadiums, ballparks are getting done these days. The era of 100% public financing is coming to an end.

[Solartide]

Heard on NPR that polls are now 75% against.

[tgianco]

Heard on NPR that polls are not 75% against.

Folks,

Look on the bright side. We will now get to see more Warrior games, and, if you've been there lately, the remodeled Oakland Colisseum is much nicer than Arco.

The Warriors are, after all, a great time out.

[Solartide]

Uh, that was a typo. "Now", not "Not". Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

[DrKoz23]

Folks,

Look on the bright side. We will now get to see more Warrior games, and, if you've been there lately, the remodeled Oakland Colisseum is much nicer than Arco.

The Warriors are, after all, a great time out.

What... a 2 hour drive to see a crappy team. No thanks.

I've been there since the remodel. You call that a nice arena!

Ha!

[iJason]

What... a 2 hour drive to see a crappy team. No thanks.

I've been there since the remodel. You call that a nice arena!

Ha!

It's only considered nice if you've been to Arco lately...but the Warriors should be good this year!

[DrKoz23]

...but the Warriors should be good this year!

How many years have I heard that before? Way too many... I won't hold my breath.

Oakland teams seem to like to hire old washed up coaches. Art Shell and now Nellie. After the A's fire Macha again... who are they going to go after... Lou Pinella?

[tessieca]

The Howard Jarvis Taxpayer's Association is now suing to get the documentation related to any agreements relating to the arena. Apparently, the City of Sac and county officials haven't been forthcoming.

From the Sacramento Business Journal:

"The Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association on Thursday filed a lawsuit against the city of Sacramento, demanding the proposed arena offer by the city and county of Sacramento to Maloof Sports and Entertainment be made public.

There will be a hearing on the lawsuit, which was filed in Sacramento County Superior Court, at 1:30 p.m. Friday.


By not making the offer public, the association charges the city has violated both Article I, Section III of the state Constitution and the California Public Records Act.

The association would like the deal to be made public before voters cast their absentee ballots, which were mailed out this week, spokesman Tim Bittle said.

City of Sacramento spokespeople were not immediately available for comment. "

[SacKen]

I agree with this move. Prop Q&R involve us trusting the city and the Maloofs. They should be 100% open and honest about anything related to agreements made concerning the new arena. I will definitely vote NO if I feel like they are hiding something.

[tessieca]

I'm confused about trusting the Maloofs and the city. The tax measure is simply a county sales tax, which means that we actually have to trust the Supervisors with our money. There's nothing that says they have to use it for an arena, or for any other projects (such as anything that would benefit Folsom). I'm just not sure how an agreement between the city and the Maloofs will hold any water unless the Supervisors just bow to that agreement. Nobody seems interested in asking the voters what they think about that, and all we get is an advisory on building an arena.

[Redone]

which means that we actually have to trust the Supervisors with our money

I don't at all.

[Duke]

For what it's worth---The SacBee finally published their editorial opinion on Q & R today. They're recommending a No vote. +1 for the Bee

[camay2327]

I was just going to put that in too. Here is the web site and story.

Like I have been saying from the very start folks...... VOTE NO on both Q & R
----------------


http://www.sacbee.co...tory/40381.html

Editorial: Q and R: No and No
No deal, so no dice on arena measures

Published 12:00 am PDT Tuesday, October 17, 2006
Story appeared in EDITORIALS section, Page B6

This pains us, so let's get it over with quickly.

As much as we'd like to see a sparkling new arena for Sacramento; as much as we like having an NBA team in town; as much as we see the need for a venue for rock concerts, major trade shows, Disney on Ice, truck pulls; as much as we want to see the downtown railyard developed into a vital new center of urban life -- as much as we want all these things, we can't recommend that Sacramento County voters approve Measures Q and R.

The reason is simple: Anyone who votes for these measures is voting purely on faith.

Just to refresh your memory: Measure R would increase the sales tax in Sacramento County by a quarter-cent for 15 years, without specifying what the money raised should be used for. Measure Q advises the county supervisors that up to half of that money (about $600 million of a total of $1.2 billion) should be used for a "sports and entertainment facility" -- which is to say, an arena for the Kings.

These ballot measures are the result of a long effort to come up with a plan that gives the Kings' owners what they say they need: a replacement for Arco Arena, which they say is outdated because of its narrow concourses, inadequate kitchens and inflexible seating design. And as the backers of the proposals see it, Measures Q and R not only do that, they will locate the arena in the moldering Union Pacific railyard, jump-starting that crucial downtown redevelopment project that could one day add 10,000 new residences and double the urban core's size.

That sounds great, but the reality is a bit different. There is no binding agreement with the Kings to occupy and help pay for the arena. There is no mention of the railyard or any other specific location in the ballot measures. (That's intentional; otherwise, the tax increase would require a two-thirds majority approval to pass.)

The location and financial terms were supposed to be spelled out in a memorandum of understanding with the owners of the team, the Maloof family. But the negotiations have gone badly. The Maloofs walked away from negotiations a month ago. Late last week, they finally responded to a proposal from negotiators for the city and county. But as of today, there is no agreement and no particular reason to expect there will be one.

To make matters worse, city and county officials have refused to make public the terms of their latest offer or the Maloofs' response. That is patently unfair to the voting public.

It is also shortsighted because what the public does know is hardly reassuring. The Maloofs are not participating in the campaign for Measures Q and R. They seem less than enthused about the railyard site and have sought terms -- control over potentially competing businesses, millions in annual parking revenues -- that could threaten the overall success of the railyard redevelopment.

Meanwhile, absentee ballots have been mailed out, and some voters already have mailed theirs back to the county registrar's office. In short, voting has begun without voters having the facts they need to make an informed decision.

In these circumstances, it is impossible for us to support Measures Q and R or to urge voters to do so.

That is not the end of the game. If the fight over Measures Q and R has done nothing else, it has focused the community's attention on the visions of a new arena and an expanded and reinvigorated downtown core. Backers of the arena proposal vow they will be back with a new plan if voters reject this one. They should start working on it now.