627 replies to this topic

[banana]

The same reason you won't leave your job...why do you even ask? And here I thought I had you converted and ready to go. I was all ready to master teach and everything...also, our "retirement" goes into STRS, which is state mandated and run. I wish I could take that money and inverst it on my own...Private employee pension plans are a perk in lieu of higher salaries. No sympathy for you there, and besides...you will get that social security check in the end. Teachers don't get that in the end...LOL...

First let me correct you. Didn't I share with you the evidence of my ex-employer in previous posts? I did leave, and now work at my current employer. I'm still collecting pension credits until the end of the year, new hires do not get them and haven't gotten them for the last 5yrs.

At the end of the year I'll have a decision to make, and may very well be that I move on to another job elsewhere. Of course, I would compare the pay & benefits across the potential employers in the private sector at least until I hit 50 which is about the age that corporate America doesn't want you around any longer, at that point I'll be weighing my options in the public sector.

I have no control over how any pension money is invested by my employers. Pension plans are not a 'perk' it's used as a part of an overall comprehensive compensation plan to compete with other businesses for the same talent pool. And my previous employer's pension plan was 2.5X lower than your STRS. I doubt my pay was much higher than yours at the time.

Social security? I don't fantasize that SS will be around. It's been over a decade since I used SS in any calculation related to retirement. And you've already been corrected on SS above, so I see no need to do it again.

Robert - That was a fishing reference, and look...I caught a banana...still looking for the bigger fish to correct me though...The teacher negotiating team has been stonewalled from the beginning. Those numbers have been asked for and the presence of the superintendent and financial officer at negotiating meetings has been requested so many times...they have never shown, or numbers have not been produced. Hey, banana, what would happen if you went to a business meeting and the group you were meeting with kept "forgetting" or was "unable" to attend? What would happen in the "real" world?

I doubt you've "caught" anyone. Can't even seem to "catch" another job besides the one you hold.

What would happen? We reschedule. It's interesting that you should mention that today. As I just called a client that we've been playing tag with for 6 months. Though I rarely forget a meeting, I did forget one with the Australia team just last week. It was rescheduled for today.

I notice that you still didn't answer my question. Why don't you leave? If you're mad, and private sector pay is so much higher, why don't you leave?

Why do you refuse to address such a simple question?

I suspect that the best and brightest teachers do leave for the private sector for higher pay as you've noted that most leave in the first 5yrs.

Then there are those that enjoy the job security, safety, benefits, work hours, 2-3 months summer vacations, and there's only one thing that would make it all better, more money, but instead of doing the hard work of looking for a better paying job and working in the private sector, you misuse the force of unions to extort higher pay.

As for some of your answers that included perhaps the district is holding back pay for other programs and future years, what's wrong with that? It's called saving some money for a rainy day. You claim those other programs don't require that much money. How do you know? Have you seen the numbers? Do you know what other potential plans the district has for that money?

Maybe it's a program to improve the students educational performance. Would you be against that? Well, I suppose the answer is obviously yes as you're willing to leave students without a teacher and go strike over 0.66%. What's that? $30? Nice public service philosophy.

[Robert Giacometti]

Robert - That was a fishing reference, and look...I caught a banana...still looking for the bigger fish to correct me though...The teacher negotiating team has been stonewalled from the beginning. Those numbers have been asked for and the presence of the superintendent and financial officer at negotiating meetings has been requested so many times...they have never shown, or numbers have not been produced. Hey, banana, what would happen if you went to a business meeting and the group you were meeting with kept "forgetting" or was "unable" to attend? What would happen in the "real" world?

Robert...the district just wants to go to impasse so they can drag this out even longer and collect more interest on the 5.24%(about 1.4-1.6 million, maybe more-please correct me) or whatever it finally ends up being. Again, we did this six years ago and came within one day of a strike...which I don't want any part of, but will if it is voted to take place.

TM70, I would suggest filling out a public records request from the District requesting these documents and then going to the Board meeting and putting the request on the record.
If you don't get them keep going to the Board meeting reminding them that you put in this request and you are still waiting for the information.

[banana]

That sounds like too much work. It's easier just to walk out on the job.

Do you get paid while on strike? If not, wouldn't that be the same as getting the 0.66% raise difference? Maybe there's some sort of strike pay or something, but I don't know what that is so I wouldn't be able to give you a better example below.

Lets say it's $30 difference and your pay for a day is $100, and you're on strike for 3 days. That would mean you're out $300 in 10yrs you'd break even on that 0.66%.

Of course, if you get paid while on strike, woo-hoo, it's a party, don't know why you wouldn't be on strike everyday, forever, since you wouldn't have to work and you'd get paid. Though I doubt that's the case.

Does that count as vacation time? Is the school year extended by the number of days on strike? I mean if the school year isn't extended by the number of days, then technically you didn't work all the days that you get paid to work which in essence is a raise in and of itself. I'm guessing here, but assuming that you don't get paid on strike days.

Has there ever been a case of a teacher not walking out / striking or will I be the first in the years to come? Well, only after I'm tenured. I'll do the strike thing the first 2yrs.

[tessieca]

Doolin, school districts pay far more than the social security contribution toward PERS or STRS, depending on the employee.

Robert, TM, et al., the district has open books. The budget is available to anyone who wants to look at it. The problem is that most people don't understand educational funding. There are no hidden pots of gold. The district is not hiding nor saving money for any future purposes. Look back to one of my first posts.

Robert, the district doesn't get an across the board increase in "COLA." It has a certain formula that is applied to some programs, a lesser amount that is applied to other programs, and zero that was granted for some others including federal programs. New dollars also come because of new students so that they can open new classrooms, buy more texts, etc.

So, you take a certain amount of new dollars, take into account the fact that the district must pay for step and column increases, the district has increased costs for turning on lights and running AC, the district has mandated costs for more special education programs, and so on, and you are left with less than 100% of the increase in dollars to the district.

If the teachers get the full amount they are requesting, the district will have to cut $1.4 million dollars somewhere. $18,000 could be saved by eliminating Edline. Where's the other $1.3 M plus coming from?? If it comes at all it will come out of the hides of people who lose their jobs. TM70 apparently isn't one of those. Striking and threatening strikes hurts the kids and shows where your interests truly lie. Don't pretend to be altruistic and only concerned about the kids when you are most interested in your pocket book.

[banana]

"The surge of interest in such programs, she said, stems largely from a broad experiment with mentoring in California. In the 1990s, California tried a new retention program after losing about 50 percent of its new teachers every year.

Liam Goldrick, director of policy for the New Teacher Center, based at the University of California in Santa Cruz, said the program is now in place in every school district in the state and the retention rate has risen to about 84 percent."

Source: http://news.yahoo.co...Gg.xn6BRnsDW7oF


Wow! From 50% to 84%! A 34% improvement in retention! Too bad we don't know if it has any improvement on student performance.

That's a great retention rate. Pretty much on par with what you'd find in corporate America. Probably right in the middle of the pack for the Fortune 1000. Not bad at all when you think about over 10,000 private sector companies in America.


"Researchers estimate as many as 50 percent of teachers nationwide will leave the profession within their first five years on the job, fed up and frustrated."

This statement is not unlike where I work. We have the highest attrition rate in the first 5yrs. The shortest time I've ever seen here was 2 days. We both came on the job at the same time and 2 days later a co-worker quit. We took the same mentoring approach for new employees, though I can't say we've had the same success that California has had with teachers.

[TM70]

B

[mylo]

Maybe you'll get it next year when COLA is 2%?

[tessieca]

On which line do you see extra money, TM70? The budget is running at a deficit with the 5.25% calculated in for all employees. I'm not sure where this hidden pot of gold is, but I'd be happy to look at it.

[banana]

Wow! pg 81. 83.2% to the employees....

Certificated salaries - 50.6%
Classified salaries - 15.8%
Employee benefits - 16.8%

Contracts & Svcs - 9.7%

Books and Supplies - 5.9% ....


Tess, maybe she was looking at the adult education?

Those little parentheses means negative.....

But lets assume there is money. Why the heck give it to the teachers? How about paying down some of that debt? And having some money in the rainy day /emergency (economic uncertainties) line item?

You know.... I have an idea... if we could just get rid of books & supplies... and transfer that 5.9% to the teachers, everyone will be happy!

The kids will love not having books or learning a thing and the teachers get a massive raise!

Lets not drag this out a percentage or two at a time, lets just get to the end game.

[TM70]

J

[cw68]

Just as I suspected. When you all get back from lunch on Friday...don't forget to post "anonymously" Finally had someone figure out who's who...nice...

What are you talking about?!

[TM70]

V

[cw68]

I'm sorry Christy...what fun would it be for me If I didn't know who was who...

I'm not Christy. Look at the "Faces of MyFolsom" and you'll see me on the top row, third from the left. I'm not a teacher, I'm not an administrator. I'm just a fairly new Folsomite with a daughter at NSE. Plenty of people on here know that my name is not Christy.

Care to share who you are? Didn't think so, and I don't blame you. One of the great things about this forum is that you can generally be anonymous as you want want to be.

[banana]

Public schools are NOT for profit.

That is why most of the money goes to the employees working in it.

Ha, ha, ha! Oh that one line is going to keep me laughing all weekend!

And the second line is just as hilarious!

My, I'm shocked that public schools are not for profit....

If they were (and they had some competition) many would be gone already.

But the idea that 83% of all the money should go to the employees is even more twisted. It's no wonder that American students trail so many countries in education.

Look, we can pay teachers a million a year and that won't do squat to improve education. Sure, you'll show up in your limo and go protest 0.66% COLA increases in the year 2012, but that wouldn't help the students one bit.

The spending should be geared to those things that would improve student performance. A longer school day perhaps with more time in each subject, better support for students falling behind, lower student to teacher ratio, which would mean more teachers - If I had a choice of paying 40 teachers that are making $40k/yr $1k more, or hiring 1 more teacher, I'd rather hire on a new teacher to help the students. Better books, tools, after hours homework help assistance, etc.

[sanmateo60]

Ha, ha, ha! Oh that one line is going to keep me laughing all weekend!

And the second line is just as hilarious!

My, I'm shocked that public schools are not for profit....

If they were (and they had some competition) many would be gone already.

But the idea that 83% of all the money should go to the employees is even more twisted. It's no wonder that American students trail so many countries in education.

Look, we can pay teachers a million a year and that won't do squat to improve education. Sure, you'll show up in your limo and go protest 0.66% COLA increases in the year 2012, but that wouldn't help the students one bit.

The spending should be geared to those things that would improve student performance. A longer school day perhaps with more time in each subject, better support for students falling behind, lower student to teacher ratio, which would mean more teachers - If I had a choice of paying 40 teachers that are making $40k/yr $1k more, or hiring 1 more teacher, I'd rather hire on a new teacher to help the students. Better books, tools, after hours homework help assistance, etc.