278 replies to this topic

[valdossjoyce]

Slowthegrowth:

Frustration is shared; I guarantee the frustration of those who spent hundreds of hours and in some cases, all of their non-working, non-sleeping hours working on this initiative, are feeling far more frustration than those who merely signed.

Remarks like yours are not constructive nor are they productive, particularly in a public forum. (Unless, of course, you're really an opponent using this forum to cause people to lose faith in grassroots efforts of any kind).

We did the best we could and if you or anyone else out there thinks they can do it better, I will support you. If you're willing to lead the next round, then, let's meet personally and I'll give you a play-by-play on what we did well and where we went wrong. (I can be reached at home 983-9367 or at my office 631-1662).

If you're not up to the job, then at least don't discourage those who think they might be. Volunteers expect to get beat up by opponents; it's harder to accept from "supporters" who haven't done much other than sign their name.

[old soldier]

I am sorry that judge thought I was confused. The thing I signed wanted open land left and I don't have to read any county plan to understand that. Most of the 4000 folks who wanted a voice signed the thing after lleaving a store. The problem is these fancy lawyers, and the developer folks will always have more money to get the fancier lawyer....I saw a show once about a criminal lawyer who made lots of money and he said he was just "better than most in developing reasonable doubt." guess thats what this fancy guy did to the judge.

kinda reminds me about a big deal that was made about "is" and what were "sexual relations". maybee if the folks do another initiative they can just say leave 50 percent of the land "for the deer and the antelope to play"

who knows some of the bad things that happened in the past where the city council got fooled by(or got bones) from the developer guys. Seem to remember somthing abut the sewer system but I bet that bob or the edf can remember a few.

I think somebody ought to look for somebody who felt they were fooled by the words in that initiative paper...I'm not that smart but I understood what it meant.

I'm kinda disappointed that none of the candidates seem be be upset about the developer lawyer taking away the request for a vote by 4000 folsom citizens.

seems like the elections around here get one by the guy/gal with the most and prettiest signs...

I was glad to hear from Kerri that the toilet seats are fine in her house. I meant that is just one thing that guys seem to forget and it makes women mad. If her husband had sisters she got him already trained. took me about six years of yelling but I haven't had a lapse in fifteen years.

[cybertrano]

valdossjoyce, bob etc etc.... your efforts are greatly appreciated. i know it's a lot of works. i don't think people should blame you for the failed effort.

[slowthegrowth]

"Remarks like yours are not constructive nor are they productive, particularly in a public forum. (Unless, of course, you're really an opponent using this forum to cause people to lose faith in grassroots efforts of any kind)."

Wow...that really hurt! Check my posts. Look at my screename. I have been advocating folks to "slow the growth" of Folsom...ESPECIALLY south of Hwy 50. There are sections of that open hillside that my wife and I consider our "happy place"....one that we'll dream about years and years from now when we've been priced out of this market.

I stated that I was frustrated.. sorry if that is a problem for you. I'm sure you are as well and all those that worked long and hard on this effort only to see it thrown out on technicalities. Hopefully this is a lesson learned and that it's not too late to keep the beautiful California hills pristine.

I echo Cyber's appreciation for all the work being done to save these few remaining open spaces. As you said... you did the best you could.

[ducky]

Bob, Val & gang,

My sympathies for your setback. Having worked on another recent grass-roots effort here in town, I have a great appreciation for the way you all must be feeling. I know the amount of time, work, sacrifice, and energy you all put into this issue. If having your heart in the right place meant more than having a large wallet in this city, the right thing would be done more often without the need for initiatives.

You haven't failed. You made a valiant effort and brought light to this issue. A great big thank-you to you all!

[Orangetj]

I, too, want to express my thanks to all of those who put so much of their time and energy into this effort.

It is extremely disheartening that a group of 4 people can derail an effort supported by 4,000 people. What's worse is the cowardly way in which they've done it. Rather than be willing to "fight" it out at election time, they've gone behind the scenes, found a technicality and had the fight cancelled. Based on the manner in which they've secured their victory, I have to wonder whether they believe their own interests would stand up to the scrutiny of the populace.

Again, I greatly appreciate the work that so many of you have put forth to try to preserve Folsom and slow the process of us becoming just another sprawling wasteland of big box stores, overcrowded streets and leveled topography.

[New Girl]

I agree it is sad that this was overturned by a technicality. However I am relieved that the area that we currently have in a sphere of influence (I don't like to call it 'south of 50' as it only constitutes a part of the land south of Folsom) will now more likely become a part of Folsom and less likely to be part of Sac County or Rancho. We don't have the luxury of thinking "if" the land is going to be developed - it is "when" the land is developed. Folsom has done a better job than either of the other two entities - that is why I live here.

[ducky]

Newgirl,

I agree it was never a question of "if" the land was developed, nor a question of "when." The part that is disheartening is the residents wanted a say in "how" the land was developed and it was robbed from them by a technicality instead of a vote.

[FolsomJunior00]

Can i just say that i am getting more and more sick and tired of some of the Folsom politicians and former politicians?

[tessieca]

FJ00: From your nametag, it looks as if you're old enough to run for office, or at least to vote. Get rid of 'em if you don't like 'em.

[New Girl]

Ducky - the initiative was so restrictive that it effectively stopped any development. California desperately needs more housing and the pressure is on to develope. If the land could not be developed as part of Folsom, rest assured it will be developed by some other entity.

[ducky]

New Girl,

You are good at reciting the city's propaganda. I for one would have liked to have seen them prove that in a campaign, but I guess they won't have to do that now, will they?

You obviously like what has happened to Folsom. I'm willing to bet your street hasn't turned into a drag racing strip with the overflow of traffic, and I'm talking about before the Dam Road was even closed.

I think more residents would like to see more thoughtful development. I am curious. Will you be voting for the city's initiative and are you for it being kept on the ballot? How will you feel if they pull it off?

[Terry]

I guess we'll just have to see what the MAJORITY of Folsom voters support. Of course if the election supports the city's plans, I guess it will be considered by opponents to be a "right-wing conspiracy".

At any rate, majority does rule, and I guess we'll see who that is.

[Bob]

Terry,

Please reread your own post. I am sure you will be able to see the illogic that the rest of us do. "Majority"? Majority as compared to what? Now that the Residents Initiative that we know had at least 4,500 supporters has been pulled off the ballot there is nothing to compare the "success" of the City Hall Initiative to. A "majority" vote of the City Hall Initiative proves nothing other than that the voters will recognize it is the best that can be obtained at the time because it is the ONLY thing that can be obtained this November 2nd.

The Residents Initiative would have given the residents of Folsom the "steak" that they deserved. Now that we are left with only the "baloney" provided by the City Hall Initiative, even I will vote for it. Starving people do not turn down baloney to sustain them while they work toward that steak.

Regards,
Bob Fish
Residents for Sensible Growth

[waterbaby149]

I join w/Ducky - my fellow petititoner in the other grassroots effort in commending Bob, Val and the others for their efforts
Terry - you seem narrow minded and that the majority is only w/your beliefs - putting any issue to the vote is the american way - that has glaringly been declined by the city of folsom
As I have said before, how much longer will the residents tolerate it
It was very clear w/Gray Davis that the voters of California had a enough and did something about it -
The Folsom City Council, Bob Holderness and the rest of the team will eventually "piss" the wrong person off - it is only a matter of time.....
and it will happen - it won't be in an election to replace the members, it will be a final straw - ....... like the draw down at the Ok Corral....history does repeat itself