343 replies to this topic

[supermom]

I thought you were a non-drinker! Let's meet up for a beer summit soon. I don't drink beer very often any more, but I can have wine or something. Why don't we do a myfolsom.com beer summit in the next couple of weeks?

I'm not a non-drinker.
I am a cautious drinker.


Being in the military for a long time- I have learned to be paranoid about imbibing outside of my home- unless I am absolutely 100% sure that my designated driver is responsible, will stay awake and keep me alive. Or, I have a fool safe plan like a taxi number in my pocket, and I know they wont close before Im done drinking.

[Steve Heard]

I notice O and Holder didn't say anything about the Black Panthers putting the bounty up. Nor did he mention a call for calm when the black teens in Ill. beat the white teen because of Zimmerman. He also never mentioned a thing when the gang punk killed the 2 British tourists who happened to be in the wrong place (the brit families expressed dismay that their children didn't rate an acknowledgement).

He should have stayed out of it as it is a local issue repeated hundreds of times every day. By entering into the discussion, he applies political pressure to the judicial and investigative process. It seems to me the only thing he should have said is for everyone to remain calm, and let the investigation run its course.

Just like when he said "The police acted foolishly." I'd say he acted foolishly. And certainly not very Presidential.

I disagree. This is a national issue, and the President, as our elected leader was right to comment on it.

I wonder, do you feel the same about Romney and Santorum?

Romney said: "What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy. There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity.”

Santorum said, "It's a horrible case, and it's chilling to hear what happened. And of course the fact that law enforcement didn't immediately go after and prosecute this case is another chilling example of horrible decisions made by people in this process."

'I think it's pretty clear the problems we're seeing in this case, and hopefully the state Attorney General and local community is reacting and responding, and hopefully this matter will be an example of what law enforcement has to do in a case like this."

Should they have stayed out of it? Are they stirring up hatred by commenting on it?

Santorum and Romney haven't commented on the other crimes. Are you going to call them out on it?

This issue is huge and cannot be ignored. Race relations in this country are in many ways better than when I was a kid, but in some ways the animosity and hatred seems to be growing. It must be acknnowledged, confronted and changed.

[supermom]

So then is Obama operating under a presumption that hate was a motivation here?

I can't assume to know what the President is operating under; however I could imagine that the media first brought this to the attention of people who inform the President of domestic issues.

There have been many amazing leaders in our country, not all politicians, who have helped change american policy on civil rights in America. When a large group of people start shouting that one of our own Americans paid the ultimate sacrifice for petty hatred, that should become an issue in many circles. Political. Religious. Economic. Legislative.

I won't try to insult or verify to any group that racial hatred was an issue in this young man's life. But I do strongly believe that an injustice was committed. Perhaps it was just truly poor judgement, or anger, or hypoglycemia, or ______(fill it in, someone always has an excuse).

What I can say is that the the perceived injustice was rooted not just in that single act, but in the believe ( how they came to the belief belies historic encounters of the same type) that a 17 year old boy --who could be anyone's boy, could be shot dead, and no investigation beyond a 40 minute questioning, ever took place.

Why does this have to be about race? What is the family of that young man, the community where he lived, really saying about the crime?
Can we say the crime was racially motivated? Can we say the investigation into the untimely demise of that young man was poorly performed due to racial discrimination?

I can't say, as I am not a resident of that community. But, when logic is applied, I have to ask, if the judges son had been the one killed that night, would the perpetrator have been given his gun back, and his clothes, and told to go home and get some rest. Yeah sure he spent a few minutes at the pd to sign a form (I have no idea what) but he walked out that night.

In my mind, I think that if someone kills me with a gun at close range, I hope to god I don't have that cop investigating my death. My children will most definitely need to know the truth of my death, if not for anything more than insurance.

Yet, the public is informed the cop was told to let him go. I find this confusing. Cops have policies. They have ways of doing business. They have SOP, and regulations, and they have lots of pictures and withnesses to talk to. Then they go back and view their stuff, and then they talk to the main suspect---WAAAY before they bring this information to the light of the DA office.

So, how is it a normal ( couple of weeks) was shortened down to 40 minutes?

Now that may be an ok way to do business in that town, heck ok--I dont know. I'm not a copper. But...It seems that there are a lot of other people out there--many who are coppers--who are scratching their heads. Just what kind of investigative policies are in place for investigating the sudden death of a person by a person who admits to shooting that person?

I'm not really sure this is about race. This could just be about preferential treatment (after the fact) due to affluence, But that anger is being fueled and fanned into a possible cyclonic fury.

The President's instincts to offer comfort to the community where that young man came from, with his commentary on the boy looking just like a boy child he would have liked to have had--was a personal touch that sent waves across the nation; as finally a group of people feel as though their leadership really is hearing them. Some very well may call it politicking. But this did calm the tensions.

It is the Presidents duty to point his arm to social injustices that may have been overlooked by the local government. This is why the Hate crime prevention act was put into law in 2009.
I honestly do not have an opinion on whether the young man was killed due to racial hatred. And I do not have an opinion that the investigation of the young mans death was not properly attended- due to racial discrimination

I do question the story of the only man who claims he saw what actually happened that night, from a physical point. I think that the more you look at this story; the more you become emotionally invested into wanting to find the truth both in words and deeds. How could we not, after someone loses a life? Don;t we owe them that?

[watsupwiththat@aol.com]

Steve Heard- good posts to this unbelievable thread.

Maxine R- I don't know you and am aghast by your posts-and that is why I am replying in this thread. You are entitled to your opinions but in my opinion could use a reality check outside of your normal websites to get a pulse on news and the status of race relations in this country.

Stating "talk facts and only facts" and then posting a website from aryan group leaves me questioning why I would consider any of your statements. Yes you apologized, but I don't understand how you wouldn't know who was behind the content of that website when you are so sure of your facts and stating that people should "talk facts".

The statement "The black community wants to call Zimmerman white, he isn’t. Explain that one to me."- I thought one of his parents is white? Doesn't that count?

I clearly have different opinions from you and many of the other posters on this thread and on myfolsom.com.

Seeing the racism in some of the posts disillusions me tremendously- I would like to believe in 2012 Folsom could be an open community tolerant of diversity.

Great comment!

I saw a quote today that said "Tolerance Does Not Mean Tolerating Intolerance" I thought of this thread and how true it still is today- I am semi-new to Folsom-and as my 13 year old son starting attending the stellar school district that Folsom has...He came home from the first few days and said "where are the Asians? Where are the black kids?" So Maxine, I think that you can rest assured that our lives are not in danger... and that violence can happen anywhere-even at our bowling alley... by all colors of people.

Just to make a point- looks like the guy in the Folsom bowling alley stabbing was white-based on the handcuffed hands....Yikes! Crime so close to home....and now we have Manderes patrons peeing outside!

AND the person that I would love MOST to have lunch with(if I could with any of you) is Steve Heard. Sorry Maxine, I am super white and I know you would feel safe with me-but your attitude scares me and worries me that I would not be safe with you. And DON"T go bowling-safety first!

[watsupwiththat@aol.com]

I can't assume to know what the President is operating under; however I could imagine that the media first brought this to the attention of people who inform the President of domestic issues.

There have been many amazing leaders in our country, not all politicians, who have helped change american policy on civil rights in America. When a large group of people start shouting that one of our own Americans paid the ultimate sacrifice for petty hatred, that should become an issue in many circles. Political. Religious. Economic. Legislative.

I won't try to insult or verify to any group that racial hatred was an issue in this young man's life. But I do strongly believe that an injustice was committed. Perhaps it was just truly poor judgement, or anger, or hypoglycemia, or ______(fill it in, someone always has an excuse).

What I can say is that the the perceived injustice was rooted not just in that single act, but in the believe ( how they came to the belief belies historic encounters of the same type) that a 17 year old boy --who could be anyone's boy, could be shot dead, and no investigation beyond a 40 minute questioning, ever took place.

Why does this have to be about race? What is the family of that young man, the community where he lived, really saying about the crime?
Can we say the crime was racially motivated? Can we say the investigation into the untimely demise of that young man was poorly performed due to racial discrimination?

I can't say, as I am not a resident of that community. But, when logic is applied, I have to ask, if the judges son had been the one killed that night, would the perpetrator have been given his gun back, and his clothes, and told to go home and get some rest. Yeah sure he spent a few minutes at the pd to sign a form (I have no idea what) but he walked out that night.

In my mind, I think that if someone kills me with a gun at close range, I hope to god I don't have that cop investigating my death. My children will most definitely need to know the truth of my death, if not for anything more than insurance.

Yet, the public is informed the cop was told to let him go. I find this confusing. Cops have policies. They have ways of doing business. They have SOP, and regulations, and they have lots of pictures and withnesses to talk to. Then they go back and view their stuff, and then they talk to the main suspect---WAAAY before they bring this information to the light of the DA office.

So, how is it a normal ( couple of weeks) was shortened down to 40 minutes?

Now that may be an ok way to do business in that town, heck ok--I dont know. I'm not a copper. But...It seems that there are a lot of other people out there--many who are coppers--who are scratching their heads. Just what kind of investigative policies are in place for investigating the sudden death of a person by a person who admits to shooting that person?

I'm not really sure this is about race. This could just be about preferential treatment (after the fact) due to affluence, But that anger is being fueled and fanned into a possible cyclonic fury.

The President's instincts to offer comfort to the community where that young man came from, with his commentary on the boy looking just like a boy child he would have liked to have had--was a personal touch that sent waves across the nation; as finally a group of people feel as though their leadership really is hearing them. Some very well may call it politicking. But this did calm the tensions.

It is the Presidents duty to point his arm to social injustices that may have been overlooked by the local government. This is why the Hate crime prevention act was put into law in 2009.
I honestly do not have an opinion on whether the young man was killed due to racial hatred. And I do not have an opinion that the investigation of the young mans death was not properly attended- due to racial discrimination

I do question the story of the only man who claims he saw what actually happened that night, from a physical point. I think that the more you look at this story; the more you become emotionally invested into wanting to find the truth both in words and deeds. How could we not, after someone loses a life? Don;t we owe them that?

And Kudos to Supermom for pointing out that the President of the USA is not a super god....he just doesn't know all the answers for everything yet and went on his gut when he talked...violent crimes happen everywhere...that is State work and if that fails he may comment....the truth will come out in the trial...but the ultimate decision will come from Zimmermans jury of peers.

[The Average Joe]

I wonder, do you feel the same about Romney and Santorum?

Romney said: "What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy. There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity.”

Had he left out the tragedy part, the rest was fine, although I still think they have no more information to go on than we do and it is all just posturing.

Santorum said, "It's a horrible case, and it's chilling to hear what happened. And of course the fact that law enforcement didn't immediately go after and prosecute this case is another chilling example of horrible decisions made by people in this process."

'I think it's pretty clear the problems we're seeing in this case, and hopefully the state Attorney General and local community is reacting and responding, and hopefully this matter will be an example of what law enforcement has to do in a case like this."

Should they have stayed out of it? Are they stirring up hatred by commenting on it?

Yes, and yes.

Santorum and Romney haven't commented on the other crimes. Are you going to call them out on it?

I don't think they should be commenting on any particular crime they are uninvolved with.

This issue is huge and cannot be ignored. Race relations in this country are in many ways better than when I was a kid, but in some ways the animosity and hatred seems to be growing. It must be acknnowledged, confronted and changed.

I don't believe race was a motivating factor in this incident, and was only made so when the media started with the whole "white-hispanic" meme.

Just wanted to add... race is an important topic. However, the handling of this situation leaves no room for a constructive outcome.

For one, people have immediately chosen a side based on skin color, despite there being no evidence of this being a racially motivated crime.

If Martin was the aggressor, and Zimmerman was indeed acting in self-defense and is found innocent, there will be riots and "payback" and the like. That will do nothing but HARM race relations.
If Martin was completely innocent, and was murdered in cold blood, and the police minimized the evidence, there will be riots and "payback," and relations will be harmed.

I guess what I'm saying is that you can't have a conversation and hope to have anything positive come out of it when people are making death threats and have decided guilt based not on evidence, but on preconceived ideological posture.

I, for one, hate the no win scenario.

You also diminish REAL racism when every incident is racist just because different races are involved. Sometimes bad things just happen.

[Homer]

Diversity and free speech does not include racism - that is a line in the sand that should not be crossed...

By the way _ I changed the title to one more appropriate ...

Good call on changing the title of the topic.

[Steve Heard]

I don't believe race was a motivating factor in this incident, and was only made so when the media started with the whole "white-hispanic" meme.

Just wanted to add... race is an important topic. However, the handling of this situation leaves no room for a constructive outcome.

For one, people have immediately chosen a side based on skin color, despite there being no evidence of this being a racially motivated crime.

Yes, many black folks immediately sided with Trayvon Martin, not simply because he too was black, but because I can't think of a black person I know who hasn't had some police issue with them or someone they know, simply because they were black. We all know someone who was wrongly stopped, questioned, accused, jailed, beaten or even shot just for being black.

Conversely, many whites could identify with Zimmerman, frustrated with young black males committing an inordinately high number of crimes compared to the rest of society. Many could understand how a neighborhood watch captain might have reason to be suspicious of a young man walking through the neighborhood wearing a hoodie, and could understand why he might pull a gun and shoot when being beaten.

It is not only along racial lines, however. There have been plenty of white folks denouncing the behaviors of both Zimmerman and the police.

[Homer]

I disagree. This is a national issue, and the President, as our elected leader was right to comment on it.

I wonder, do you feel the same about Romney and Santorum?

Romney said: "What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy. There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity.”

Santorum said, "It's a horrible case, and it's chilling to hear what happened. And of course the fact that law enforcement didn't immediately go after and prosecute this case is another chilling example of horrible decisions made by people in this process."

'I think it's pretty clear the problems we're seeing in this case, and hopefully the state Attorney General and local community is reacting and responding, and hopefully this matter will be an example of what law enforcement has to do in a case like this."

Should they have stayed out of it? Are they stirring up hatred by commenting on it?

Santorum and Romney haven't commented on the other crimes. Are you going to call them out on it?

This issue is huge and cannot be ignored. Race relations in this country are in many ways better than when I was a kid, but in some ways the animosity and hatred seems to be growing. It must be acknnowledged, confronted and changed.

The issue i see with this incident is it appears that Obama is using it as a wedge issue by proxy through Atty-Gen. Holder.

[old soldier]

I disagree. This is a national issue, and the President, as our elected leader was right to comment on it.

I wonder, do you feel the same about Romney and Santorum?

Romney said: "What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy. There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity.”

Santorum said, "It's a horrible case, and it's chilling to hear what happened. And of course the fact that law enforcement didn't immediately go after and prosecute this case is another chilling example of horrible decisions made by people in this process."

'I think it's pretty clear the problems we're seeing in this case, and hopefully the state Attorney General and local community is reacting and responding, and hopefully this matter will be an example of what law enforcement has to do in a case like this."

Should they have stayed out of it? Are they stirring up hatred by commenting on it?

Santorum and Romney haven't commented on the other crimes. Are you going to call them out on it?

This issue is huge and cannot be ignored. Race relations in this country are in many ways better than when I was a kid, but in some ways the animosity and hatred seems to be growing. It must be acknnowledged, confronted and changed.

ok, santorum had to shoot his mouth off about law enforcement bad bad...Romney was presidential, saying it was a bad thing that needed an investigation. it was a national issue and he had to comment and he made the right one

we all should know obama well enough that his comments were crafted very carefully to give him what he considered a political edge.

[The Average Joe]

Yes, many black folks immediately sided with Trayvon Martin, not simply because he too was black, but because I can't think of a black person I know who hasn't had some police issue with them or someone they know, simply because they were black. We all know someone who was wrongly stopped, questioned, accused, jailed, beaten or even shot just for being black.

Conversely, many whites could identify with Zimmerman, frustrated with young black males committing an inordinately high number of crimes compared to the rest of society. Many could understand how a neighborhood watch captain might have reason to be suspicious of a young man walking through the neighborhood wearing a hoodie, and could understand why he might pull a gun and shoot when being beaten.

It is not only along racial lines, however. There have been plenty of white folks denouncing the behaviors of both Zimmerman and the police.

Really good post. And I think it gets to the heart of it.
I will add to the whole police issue tho. I used to get pulled over about once a week and have my car searched because I "matched a description." Funny, how that one guy that looked like me was causing trouble every week. I never got any moving violations but had several bs "fixit" tickets. The why is important. It was not my race, nor my behavior, but was because I had long hair and drove a musclecar. I fit a social profile.
Still, you made a great post. I don't have time to go into this further right now, but this is the best direction this topic has taken.

[Carl G]

Yes, many black folks immediately sided with Trayvon Martin, not simply because he too was black, but because I can't think of a black person I know who hasn't had some police issue with them or someone they know, simply because they were black. We all know someone who was wrongly stopped, questioned, accused, jailed, beaten or even shot just for being black.

Conversely, many whites could identify with Zimmerman, frustrated with young black males committing an inordinately high number of crimes compared to the rest of society. Many could understand how a neighborhood watch captain might have reason to be suspicious of a young man walking through the neighborhood wearing a hoodie, and could understand why he might pull a gun and shoot when being beaten.

It is not only along racial lines, however. There have been plenty of white folks denouncing the behaviors of both Zimmerman and the police.

I think this is really the heart of the problem.
Steve - how deep is the distrust of police in the black community? Is it repairable? What will it take?

[Redone]

I understand when Al and Jesse look for the spotlight but I don't understand what would make NBC want to doctor up the tapes in favor of the one side or the other. Reporting should be reporting, not twisting or making up news stories. They have no credibility.

[john]

Maxine, I deleted your post. Lets not turn this into an over generalizing commentary on race in America. That's not what this forum was created for.Think before you post next time. Would you be posting such commentary without the benefit of an anonymous screen name?