343 replies to this topic

[bordercolliefan]

Among the many lessons of this case is not to jump to conclusions before all the facts are out.

The initial story was that an innocent, unarmed kid was just walking along and was confronted and shot by a vigilante. A grainy video that showed no injuries on George Zimmerman confirmed the notion that this shooting was entirely unprovoked.

Well, now the evidence is that Zimmerman had pretty significant injuries. Apparently there was an eyewitness to the altercation who says that Martin was getting the better of Zimmerman.

There are still many unanswered questions--like who threw the first blow-- but the picture is certainly different from what was originally presented.

I don't automatically condemn Zimmerman for questioning Martin, because a few months ago, I did a similar thing! A young-ish man (who happened to be white) had gotten out of a car and was loitering on a corner in our neighborhood near where a guy is known to sell drugs out of his home. I confronted him, saying, "Hey, are you waiting for something?" He mumbled something; the car that had dropped him off suddenly appeared from around the corner, he jumped in and sped off.

Another time, I didn't confront, but I did briefly follow, a guy who was walking around the neighborhood early in the morning in full gangbanger attire. I had a pretty good idea he didn't live here because believe me, none of the kids I see at my kids' schools look like that, in fact, one never sees that extreme a look in Folsom. I kept an eye on him just long enough to make sure he was walking out of the neighborhood instead of up to the more secluded streets.

People are quick to cry "racism"--and there undoubtedly was some in the Martin case--but it is also a perogative of living in a neighborhood to keep an eye out for things or people that don't belong, and try to keep your neighborhood a little safer. "It takes a village..."

[Robert Giacometti]

I disagree. This is a national issue, and the President, as our elected leader was right to comment on it.

I wonder, do you feel the same about Romney and Santorum?

Romney said: "What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy. There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity.”

Santorum said, "It's a horrible case, and it's chilling to hear what happened. And of course the fact that law enforcement didn't immediately go after and prosecute this case is another chilling example of horrible decisions made by people in this process."

'I think it's pretty clear the problems we're seeing in this case, and hopefully the state Attorney General and local community is reacting and responding, and hopefully this matter will be an example of what law enforcement has to do in a case like this."

Should they have stayed out of it? Are they stirring up hatred by commenting on it?

Santorum and Romney haven't commented on the other crimes. Are you going to call them out on it?

This issue is huge and cannot be ignored. Race relations in this country are in many ways better than when I was a kid, but in some ways the animosity and hatred seems to be growing. It must be acknnowledged, confronted and changed.

I have to disagree completely that this was a national issue! A national issue would be health care reform, High gas prices, our growing national debt or the lack of Jobs in this country!

Yes, there were mnay people protesting about this, but that doesn't make it a national issue. I think we'd all agree most of these protestors were misled about the facts of what happened and most of those protesting were probably supporters of Obama! Obama voluntarily made his comments which were deliberately measured designed to remind a certain segment of the population, that he too was one of them.

Its rather easy and convenient to stick your head in the sand and pretend you didn't see this. I wonder what you would see if there was a brutual rape and killing of a blonde hair young lady by a minority and Romney said this girl could have been my daughter. Do you think there might be an outrage over Romney playing the race card, by reminding a segment of society that he too was white? Romney would be crucified over this type of comment and rightfully so!

This became a national issue when Obama made his unsolicited pandering comments! It was AFTER Obama said the things he did Romney and Santorum HAD to say something or else it would have been held against them!

It was Obama who escalated this with his pandering. He is most responsible for the widening divide over race in this country with his consistently saying things without having all the facts. Obama had a golden opportunity to bring this country togther! He has been the MOST devisive President I've ever seen in my Lifetime! Its sad because because for him to get reelected he can't really run of his record, so he has to drive wedges into all of us!

The race relations in this country will never get any better until our leaders bring some political integrity to the table!

[Steve Heard]

I have to disagree completely that this was a national issue! A national issue would be health care reform, High gas prices, our growing national debt or the lack of Jobs in this country!

Yes, there were mnay people protesting about this, but that doesn't make it a national issue. I think we'd all agree most of these protestors were misled about the facts of what happened and most of those protesting were probably supporters of Obama! Obama voluntarily made his comments which were deliberately measured designed to remind a certain segment of the population, that he too was one of them.

Its rather easy and convenient to stick your head in the sand and pretend you didn't see this. I wonder what you would see if there was a brutual rape and killing of a blonde hair young lady by a minority and Romney said this girl could have been my daughter. Do you think there might be an outrage over Romney playing the race card, by reminding a segment of society that he too was white? Romney would be crucified over this type of comment and rightfully so!

This became a national issue when Obama made his unsolicited pandering comments! It was AFTER Obama said the things he did Romney and Santorum HAD to say something or else it would have been held against them!

It was Obama who escalated this with his pandering. He is most responsible for the widening divide over race in this country with his consistently saying things without having all the facts. Obama had a golden opportunity to bring this country togther! He has been the MOST devisive President I've ever seen in my Lifetime! Its sad because because for him to get reelected he can't really run of his record, so he has to drive wedges into all of us!

The race relations in this country will never get any better until our leaders bring some political integrity to the table!

Call me naive (I know you will), but I disagree. I didn't find Obama's remarks as calculated, but rather, off the cuff. He didn't have a press conference about it, he was answering a reporter's question. When he said that if he had a son, he'd look like Trayvon, I thought he was showing empathy and how easily any one of us could be in Trayvon's parents' shoes. When a kid got into a fatal accident after a party some years ago, I recalled telling my wife, 'that could have been Jennifer', because my daughter Jennifer was in a car which was hit by a drunk driver.

Here's how the Christian Science Monitor reported it, "As protests continued Friday over the shooting death last month of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, President Obama brought the matter to the top of the national agenda with a simple declaration: “If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon.”

The president's off-the-cuff comment, in answer to a reporter's question at a Rose Garden press conference Friday morning, is his first in public about the Trayvon Martin case, and it may well have captured the emotional reaction of parents far and wide to the teen's death. It is important, Mr. Obama said, "to figure out how this happened."

The case is steeped in many issues that have long been flash points in American society: race, gun rights, and fear of crime...."

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0323/Obama-on-Trayvon-Martin-death-a-time-of-soul-searching-for-all-of-us-video

The race relations in this country will never get any better until our leaders bring some political integrity to the table!

I could not agree with you more, but I just didn't see any lack of integrity in this case. I know race relations have a long way to go in our country, and each must do his/her part if there is to be healing. Blaming everything on race won't help, but neither will denying racial factors.

We don't know if race played a role in Zimmerman's decision to follow or to shoot Trayvon Martin, and we don't know if race had anything to do with why the police didn't charge Zimmerman with a crime. I guess we'll here all of the details come out in the trial. For those who've already made up their minds, on both sides of the issue however, I don't think anything that doesn't fit their beliefs will be...believed.

Here's to doing our part.

[Steve Heard]

I think this is really the heart of the problem.
Steve - how deep is the distrust of police in the black community? Is it repairable? What will it take?

Carl, I don't know that I have all of the answers, but off the top of my head I think we need acknowledgment, leadership, bravery, honesty, ownership, responsibility, forgiveness and progress.

We can't fix something until we acknowledge that it is broken. We can't deny racial issue exist and we can't ignore them in the hopes that they'll go away. They won't. We first have to face our past and what brought us here.

I could spend a lifetime explaining, but I think leadership has been lacking on both sides, whether it was white leadership not wanting to interfere with segregationist policies, citing 'state's rights', or black leadership using race for power.

We need bravery, someone to step up and admit that the emperor has no clothes, and then to have people be honest and agree.

We need to admit bad things happen because of race, and sometimes bad things just happen. When two parties are in conflict, their races should not matter, but all too often the parties blame race.

We have to take ownership of our faults, prejudices and our roles in perpetuating the hatred, the suspicion, and discrimination, but also in our roles in healing.

We must take responsibility for our actions and for our policies and viewpoints.

We must forgive each other, as we've done terrible things to each other because of race.

None of this will matter, however, if we then revert back to old ways as soon as someone breaks an egg shell.

If we do these simple things, we'll make progress.

If we all become leaders, first of ourselves, we'll make that progress.

[Carl G]

I have to disagree completely that this was a national issue! A national issue would be health care reform, High gas prices, our growing national debt or the lack of Jobs in this country!

Yes, there were mnay people protesting about this, but that doesn't make it a national issue. I think we'd all agree most of these protestors were misled about the facts of what happened and most of those protesting were probably supporters of Obama! Obama voluntarily made his comments which were deliberately measured designed to remind a certain segment of the population, that he too was one of them.

Its rather easy and convenient to stick your head in the sand and pretend you didn't see this. I wonder what you would see if there was a brutual rape and killing of a blonde hair young lady by a minority and Romney said this girl could have been my daughter. Do you think there might be an outrage over Romney playing the race card, by reminding a segment of society that he too was white? Romney would be crucified over this type of comment and rightfully so!

This became a national issue when Obama made his unsolicited pandering comments! It was AFTER Obama said the things he did Romney and Santorum HAD to say something or else it would have been held against them!

It was Obama who escalated this with his pandering. He is most responsible for the widening divide over race in this country with his consistently saying things without having all the facts. Obama had a golden opportunity to bring this country togther! He has been the MOST devisive President I've ever seen in my Lifetime! Its sad because because for him to get reelected he can't really run of his record, so he has to drive wedges into all of us!

The race relations in this country will never get any better until our leaders bring some political integrity to the table!

Let's be fair here. For the most part, when the national news picks up on a story of child abduction, parent murder, etc., it is almost always a cute white kid, an attractive white mother, etc. This country seems to fixate on white victims.

[Robert Giacometti]

BCF, thanks for sharing your very honest and thoughtful reflections!

[Robert Giacometti]

Call me naive (I know you will), but I disagree. I didn't find Obama's remarks as calculated, but rather, off the cuff. He didn't have a press conference about it, he was answering a reporter's question. When he said that if he had a son, he'd look like Trayvon, I thought he was showing empathy and how easily any one of us could be in Trayvon's parents' shoes. When a kid got into a fatal accident after a party some years ago, I recalled telling my wife, 'that could have been Jennifer', because my daughter Jennifer was in a car which was hit by a drunk driver.

Here's how the Christian Science Monitor reported it, "As protests continued Friday over the shooting death last month of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, President Obama brought the matter to the top of the national agenda with a simple declaration: “If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon.”

The president's off-the-cuff comment, in answer to a reporter's question at a Rose Garden press conference Friday morning, is his first in public about the Trayvon Martin case, and it may well have captured the emotional reaction of parents far and wide to the teen's death. It is important, Mr. Obama said, "to figure out how this happened."

The case is steeped in many issues that have long been flash points in American society: race, gun rights, and fear of crime...."

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0323/Obama-on-Trayvon-Martin-death-a-time-of-soul-searching-for-all-of-us-video




I could not agree with you more, but I just didn't see any lack of integrity in this case. I know race relations have a long way to go in our country, and each must do his/her part if there is to be healing. Blaming everything on race won't help, but neither will denying racial factors.


Here's to doing our part.

I'd never call you naive, you are way too wise for that!

You are correct that President Obama was responding to a reporters question about his feeling about the Martin shooting. However, we all know President Obama doesn't generally take off topic questions at press conferences and that many of his supporters including Sharpton had been speaking out about his lack of comments.

If you want to believe that this question by this reporter was completely unexpected, I guess that is your right.

I have no problem with everything Obama said EXCEPT the part about how" he would look like me. When have you ever heard any President EVER say this? There was a so subtle reference in this comment. What was Obama referring to when he said this?

EVERY one of us as parents can empathasize with Martins parents over loosing a 17 year old son to a senseless shooting. I don't think there is anyone on this forum who would have any issue with Obama reaching out to any parents who lost a child to a shooting as long as it kept generic, meaning all Children. NOT all children are going to look like Obama!

It was Obama's comments that made this a national issue! On numerous previous occassions his Aids deflected any questiosn by saying this was a local issue.

I agree its up to each and everyone of us to do our parts to help bring us closer together. Part of that obligation is to speak out when there is pandering occurring instead of rationalizing about justifying things.

I'm not hearing many people denying there aren't any factors affecting our race relations. It does exist! We need leadership who are willing to speak out when its their supporters who are wrong just as frequently as they speak out when there is injustice! This is how this issue eventually gets resolved!

[folsom500]

It was Obama's comments that made this a national issue! On numerous previous occassions his Aids deflected any questiosn by saying this was a local issue.

I will only comment on your line above at this time- It certainly WAS in the National Spotlight long before Obama weighed in with his comment. He and his administration waited quite some time after this hit the national news and other 'voices' had their comments and speculations...

It is also not the first time that Obama has spoken about similar tragedies that have hit the national news.

I think his comment was one to suggest that we are all 'parents' of those that are in harms way and have died as a result - and we need to do something to fix the situation...

Just sayin..

[Chris]

Interesting read on Zimmerman today from Rueters..... Some facts to go with all the speculation here. Chris

The 28-year-old insurance-fraud investigator comes from a deeply Catholic background and was taught in his early years to do right by those less fortunate. He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather - the father of the maternal grandmother who helped raise him.


George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

[Robert Giacometti]

I will only comment on your line above at this time- It certainly WAS in the National Spotlight long before Obama weighed in with his comment. He and his administration waited quite some time after this hit the national news and other 'voices' had their comments and speculations...

It is also not the first time that Obama has spoken about similar tragedies that have hit the national news.

I think his comment was one to suggest that we are all 'parents' of those that are in harms way and have died as a result - and we need to do something to fix the situation...

Just sayin..

Maybe we have different defintions of what National issues are? I'd like to think I try to stay informed about things, but this issue never really surfaced to me until after Obama's comments.

Another thing, ALL of us wordly people on this forum didn't begin talking about it until AFTER one week of Obama's comments. It it was such a national issue how did all of us miss it?

I've read after the fact where Sharpton was kinda making noise about Obama's lack of comments and I thought it was just a few days after that, Obama made his comments. I'll let everyone sort that out for themselves.

In looking back I saw where some of Obama's Aids, were consistent in saying this was a local issue anytime they were asked about it.

Despite all of the above, I really don't begrudge the President from making comments on any issue he feels is important. He probably could have avoided "looks like my son" and possibly allowed the situation to difuse itself sooner.

His comments did the complete opposite of bringing all of us together!