272 replies to this topic

[Dave Burrell]

Question for all of you that had terrible experiences in high school.

How many of you filed a complaint with the school administration/district?

I had those experiences too and it never ONCE crossed my mind to file a complaint.

[ChipShot]

this is another demonstration of your tendancy to be overdramatic.

No offense to the gay crowd, but I, and I think most people, associate the word 'overdramatic' with the gay crowd.

Just an observation, based on years of observing their "cause".

Wish they could 'move on', but that'll never happen, I guess.

[bordercolliefan]

Ken, sorry you have been insulted that I "moderated" you, but I gotta draw the line somewhere. People's sexual habits are their own business. I know you are only answering a question someone asked you, it's not really your fault for answering a question. I just find the discussion entering an area which is inappropriate for a family-friendly forum.

BCFan, if you really want to know, just IM him next time.

I think more information is generally better than less information -- it takes the speculation and titillation factor out.

But I do see your reasoning, John.

[supermom]

The only thing I dislike about this conversation to date--is the tasteless way in which a few posters have stated their dislike.

Talking about sex is not dirty--unless you make it dirty. I certainly think talking about what you do in a hole is gross. That comment should have been scratched and wasn't. Why not? Cause it was a female posting that? What if the comment had been made by the gay guy? Would it have been deleted?

I agree with John--if you want to talk about sex and sexuality make the comments maturely.

Most of us can understand what is being said and what is being left unsaid--and those who can't get the message without gross humor ---hey, there's sexual idenification books in most libraries.
(I made a comment yesterday on another thread--I should have deleted so I know I'm not perfect).


This is one thread that I honestly think is more about helping a young guy than any other we have had. I'd like to reach out to him and be supportive than to make him turn away in defeat or self defense. A few of his posts seem very self derogatory--in a self awareness of his frustration. Those of you who claim to be mature--let's have a mature discussion.

[folsom500]

Hey! I just came back to this thread to find out that my question -- and apparently the answer -- has been deleted.

So now I guess I'm left in the dark.

John, with all due respect, this was not a "dirty" conversation. No one is soliciting sex or being vulgar or harassing other members... we are simply trying to find out similar information to what is probably discussed in a high school sex ed. class. I think it is reactionary and dangerous to deem any factual conversation about sex "dirty." --That's how we end up with very repressed and ignorant people.

Since your question and my answer were deleted, thought I would modify my post ( different than the PM I sent you ) and see if might pass muster ...
I don't recall exactly what you asked but I know it had to do with yours and many others perception of what gay sex always included.

That is certainly NOT true for a vast majority of gays and while I would think the percentage is higher in the gay population than it is in the Hetro population- it does occur in both populations.

Although I have only been OUT for almost 6 years, I know many gay men and couples and belong to a number of online gay related groups.

One of the positive aspects of the gay lifestyle is that many or most gay men are open in their discussion of personal aspects related to sex, contact, companionship and virtually every other part of their lives... something straight men would hardly discuss with other men.

From what I know - most gay men sexual functions are normal as a hetro couple - sure there are others that get more kinky but that is also true of Hetero couples..

You might find it interesting that many established middle aged and older gay couples do not have much sex at all - as that is not a priority for them... as much as the companionship and sharing each others lives together.

While statistically there is a higher percentage of casual sex between gay men- even that does not mean that that gays engage in what others think...

The Aids scare has tempered much of what was perceived in the 80s and 90s as the rampant sexual escapades of the gay lifestyle ( similar to the highly publicized Wife swapping of the 70s) as well as the clamp down on bath houses- road side rest stops and other venues for open and unprotected sex. Men are more careful and better educated now about the issues and methods to remain safe.

Before I came out - I was also a bit homophobic and did not understand the reality of middle aged gay companionship - only knowing what I heard about the Castro district and how being gay was a precursor to death by aids.... I have learned a lot in 6 years...

So - I see I am rambling -but hope that this opens up your insight into our world - or at least the one that I belong to ---

If this is too offensive- please let me know

Cheers
F500

[folsom500]

No offense to the gay crowd, but I, and I think most people, associate the word 'overdramatic' with the gay crowd.

Just an observation, based on years of observing their "cause".

Dave you are right in that respect But think back - While there have been major changes related to domestic partnerships, insurance, workplace issues and a hundred others DUE to the over dramatic gay groups in the US it is really no different than the Black movements of years past with Martin Luther King and many others to gain rights for blacks , nor the womens movement - suffrage, and more recently womens rights in the workplace --- the riots and protests against the Vietnam War and many other causes that took people of strong courage and will to get changes...

... and most have been effective to make positive changes

You have to have a voice - to get something done -- and over dramatizing has always been an effective tool ...

Right ?

[folsom500]

By my siblings, just typical sibling stuff.

At school I was picked on for being fat. And since I was fat the other students thought that I was slow. Once I began to beat them in the playground, they stopped. In class I was teased for king to read all the time, the teachers I had would intervene.

so basically the same situations that many of us had in our school years--- I remember in elementary we had a guy - Johnny Ayalla that was very fat... the bullies got a bra for him ( he was that fat - DD) and took his shirt off and put the bra on and made walk around in it. Sure the bullies got in trouble - but that is what happens in school-

While I had some issues in elementary and Jr high- and reported a few of them- I also learned alot from the negative encounters about myself and dealing with others.

[supermom]

Well, no. I disagree. Women didn't overdramatize when trying to get the suffrage act to pass.
Rather than going on parades dressed as scantily clad ladies--we just decided to not have any sex until we were assured our future daughters would be allowed to vote.

So--I don't think over dramatization is necessary, for every human rights activist campaign.

[folsom500]

Well, no. I disagree. Women didn't overdramatize when trying to get the suffrage act to pass.
Rather than going on parades dressed as scantily clad ladies--we just decided to not have any sex until we were assured our future daughters would be allowed to vote.

So--I don't think over dramatization is necessary, for every human rights activist campaign.

Hmmmm- what have you read or seen on the suffrage movement- If that was not dramatizing I don't know what is ... but it had to happen that way to get it noticed

Parades , protests, work stoppages , pickets et all --

Cheers
F500

[ngilbert]

If this is too offensive- please let me know

Cheers
F500

Yes, all your honest talk about companionship and committment is exceedingly offensive. Maybe you could shallow it up for me

[supermom]

Hmmmm- what have you read or seen on the suffrage movement- If that was not dramatizing I don't know what is ... but it had to happen that way to get it noticed

Parades , protests, work stoppages , pickets et all --

Cheers
F500

Did you see them or hear of them ( I know your not that old) walking around in their Birthday suits in order to claim they needed equal rights?

Pickets, protests, marches--sure but over dramatization? No. Sorry, I gotta say that the womens suffrage movement was probably the least (drama) of all our countries history in civil rights movements.

[folsom500]

Did you see them or hear of them ( I know your not that old) walking around in their Birthday suits in order to claim they needed equal rights?

Pickets, protests, marches--sure but over dramatization? No. Sorry, I gotta say that the womens suffrage movement was probably the least (drama) of all our countries history in civil rights movements.

So just what is OVER Dramatization ?

No I am not that old but did take the issue up in a college class...

And if you look into google on the matter- you would see that it was certainly an 'in your face' type of campaign....

here are but a few Photos of the era

http://images.google...s...sa=N&tab=wi

so it is not much different than the gay movements or others - and most 'in your face' type of public campaigns have gained at some point public and politcal support ...

Cheers
F500

[folsom500]

I believe that people are born gay, and some choose to be gay.

I am not sure about the Choose to be gay comment = as you your self have said that you would rather NOT have been gay..

Personally, I would not have chosen to be gay (why did you come out after so many years of being a 'normal' man?).

Ok - let me tell you a bit about how I and many older men have come out - It certainly was not a choice with me - as it just happened - I had always only know that a man was a man and a man got married and a man had kids and a man lived with his family and a man never left them once he had kids and a man was always faithfull to his wife and kids... and a man would retire with his wife and have the grandchildren over with our kids-- that was my upbringing and that was my desire - I was a bit of an old fashioned person and would never consider a divorce as a man has to stay and honor his marriage vows....

Well, while the marriage lasted 18 years and I have 2 kids - now 15 and 22 - it was but a few years into the marriage that I knew that it was failed.. but having the kids - there was no way out --- ( I told you I was old fashioned) so I stuck with it for the next many years-

for some reason _ the internet ( well usenet at the time) I became interested in older men -or maybe - looking back on it - from when I was a kid - had an infatuation with older men-- and only realized it at 45 years old - I never acted on it until I was 47 after my divorce ( another story and not one for this board).
While I was a serious homophobic and manphobic ( I would never touch another man except to shake hands and could never really talk with them on anything but a business level) - after I let myself begin to feel my inner needs I found that I could embrace , talk and otherwise allow myself to be friends and companions with other men and a lover of one.

In previous posts, I said that I came out before freshmen year started. I also knew that I wasn't like the other boys in my class when we split into boys/girls for our first sex ed class and the teacher was talking about how babies are made and that boys are supposed to be attracted to girls.

I know a few gay men that knew when they were kids that they were different .. including my 69 year old partner - he would go to confession often in the 6th to 8h grade and pray at night to make god change him to a normal boy .. none of it worked though--

However, I know some lesbians who were abused by men before and do not feel comfortable enough to be in a heterosexual relationship anymore so they have become lesbians. I also know of some gay friends of mine that weren't having any luck with girls so they decided that they would try being gay to see if they can get the companionship they wanted.

While I cant speak for the lesbians- I can say that there is a possibility that the guys that chose to be in a gay relationship as you cited- were gay all along--

I also believe that people can change their behavior if they want to or you subject them to extreme methods of "therapy" (electricuting sensitive areas when they respond to certain images, submerging into tubs of ice, etc).

Now the first part is just a sham - if one is gay and choses to live a hetero lifestyle - that is understood as it happens all the time and there are many gay men that are married living that way- but that is not a behaviour change- it is lifestyle change- only hiding the real facts... and this works both ways. but your latter comments are a bit abtuse- and no data yet has shown that they will work ...

The problem I have when it comes to the "ex-gay" movement is that they want ALL GAY PEOPLE to be like them. I do not tell everyone that they need to be gay, and that the only happy life there is for a person is a gay life. So, I have an issue when they tell me that I need to be straight in order to be happy.

Such is life - we do not take others comments as a need to change our way and for the most part it is best to consider the following two quotes from my partner :

1. It is none of my business what you think about me
2. It is none of our pie


Just think about it -

Cheers
F500

[bordercolliefan]

Folsom 500,

I thought your explanatory post was very helpful, as well as the additional information in your PM to me.

I wish more people understood both the sentiments and the facts you expressed.

I do believe that gays are becoming more and more understood and embraced, and it will only be a few short years before virtually everyone accepts homosexuality as a normal, morally acceptable variation. Both science and pretty good PR are helping the cause...

[Warren G]

I do believe that gays are becoming more and more understood and embraced, and it will only be a few short years before virtually everyone accepts homosexuality as a normal, morally acceptable variation.

"A few short years before everyone..."

Being realistic is helpful.