380 replies to this topic

[Ahnold]

oh, don't waste your breath trying to convince them billsfan. they have painted themselves into a corner on this matter and are too stubborn to admit it. they are making an issue out of something that even Mr. Farley's own family has said they have no problem with. heck, the even glossed over the fact that their own national organization has frowned on their role in this issue. oh, and then there's the ludicrous reference to the 'malicious' destruction of a memorial (they like to cite that code minus the word malicious, as if the courts would overlook that). Realizing the weakness of their position, they have turned to other disgruntled factions in the community to shore up their ranks. they ignore the fact that the voters shot down the fire station site for good reason, and now they will waste thousands of dollars in taxpayer money on a recall that will not change a dang thing. The majority of this community sees the overwhelming common sense in placing this library on this site, it's value to the city, and the enhanced appreciation and respect for our fallen veterans that will ensue.

[Candy Apple]

Thank you!---- billsfan, Ahnold, bordercolliefan,

and all of you who have supported the efforts, and recognize the true facts, toward a beautiful adequate library and Veterans meorial for all Folsom residents and surrounding communities to see and enjoy.

[Riverwalker]

Oh my, many have never have got the message I see. The proposed location is just too thick with traffic to add any more. The recall petitions are warrantedand if that is what is delaying the library, then Great ! .
Many other locations are available. And you know what ? It is not even THAT important to build a new library. WE dont need one. With the internet and the other better ones in Sac and at the University, what is Folsom trying to accomplish ? A bee in their Bonnet ??

I have no intentions of going back to read the 211 previous posts on this topic, but I can tell you if there was a vote today, the majority would rather see a ball field in it current location and a little ole library that very few will use- moved elsewhere.
So get off the mighty Saddle and get a grip. It is a PET project, AT BEST.

[ducky]

First of all, Ahnold, you are assuming facts not in evidence as to why people voted down the library bond. I don't think they voted down the site. I think they voted down the size of the building that was planned, which is why they probably wouldn't be happy to find out that the hard costs for building our 23,000 square foot library in the park is about $3.3 million more than another library in the Sacramento area with the same exact square footage.
Why can all the asbestos, earthquake, access concerns be overcome to make the station into a senior/arts center but not a library? Why is the city council okay with spending $800,000 to refurbish for those groups but not $100,000 to make that site workable for the library? Sounds more like political posturing than what's good for the community or what's financially responsible. If all this growth has been so great for our community why haven't we been able to afford a site for the library in the last ten years without having to build in a park?
And Candyapple, I do feel moved looking at Farley Field everytime I see children learning the game Marshall Farley loved as well as watching the not so young in years but the young at heart playing an adult rec. game.

[grandpa babe]

To billsfan, ahnold, candy apple, bordercolliefan, and all the ships at sea. Given the Easter season, I am reminded of a historical phrase that basically says "God forgive them for they know not what they do." Some of your comments are correct, such as a need and desire for a new library and a more "moving" veteran memorial. However, most of your comments are incorrect and founded on very flawed facts. It is my intent to develop a fact sheet as we understand it so that we may use it as a discussion dialogue. For now let me simply say again (ahnold) we do not believe that you represent the majority in this issue. However, if you believe that please sign the petition that asks to have this item voted on in November. With your certainty of a majority representation, you should have no reservation in allowing the community voice to be heard.

As for support of the library, I do not believe that you will find any other Folsom service organization that has donated as many dollars and as many manhours to the development of community libraries as the members of the Folsom City Lions.

You are correct that this issue is tearing a hole in this community. We see that every day as signatures are collected. You have the oldest service organization in Folsom and the defenders of our nation and our way of life at odds with the city council. They can put a stop to this situation with a stroke of their pen or they can be encouraged to do it through our efforts. The results will be the same, but on our current course this may be the only city in the greater Sacramento area without the support of their Lions Club and Veterans.

Again, best wishes and may "God forgive you for you know not what you do."

[annierose]

The Rotary Club is donating more than $30,000 of time and money to put up benches along our trails. And what is the Lions Club doing? Petitioning to cost the city $250,000 for a special election to remove our city council – and to kill the library this community has worked so hard and waited so long for. Do you think anyone will undertake to build a library in Folsom again if this project fails?

Don't forget - Grandpa Babe is one of the leaders of this fight - and he doesn't even live in Folsom. So what does he care about the cost of the special election? (In case you've forgotten, the timing of this petition will not allow the city to wait until November for the recall vote.)

And Waterbaby - you are complaining about the traffic the library will generate in your back yard - yet you are fighting to move it just one block down the street?

Marshall Farley's only surviving relative wants the library built and a proper memorial erected to honor his brother. Doesn't he count?

[ducky]

Let me get this straight, Annierose. Are you saying if the people were able to vote and say they would rather the library be built on another site the city council would respond with, "You can't have a library now because you didn't like the site we chose without your input"? I mean, they have spoken publicly now about how dedicated they are to the library. I would think they would do whatever they could to make sure the community gets the library they want in the location they want. If they don't, they would really be showing their true colors.

The new memorial the cc is creatubg as an afterthought may be prettier and newer but that doesn't make it better, more fitting, or as genuine as the original that was done by the community. I call it an afterthought because it was never part of the original library plan as proven when looking at the city documents. Mr. Sheldon may have always meant to "do right" by Mr. Farley but you would have to be a mindreader to know it from the documents describing the new library site since Mr. Farley's field is never mentioned by name.

[longgone]

So What? Mister Farley is just ONE Folsom veteran. Mr. Sheldon wants to honor ALL Veterans!

[Ahnold]

ducky, I don't recall ever advocating the use of the fire station as a senior center! if there are issues associated with that building then nothing is suitable for that location. my objection to the fire station site for the library was the severe, negative impact on the city civic center - destroying a perfectly good access road and wedging a massive facility onto the site.

thank you for your magnamous gesture, grandpa babe. I hope you all know that I, probably just like everyone else on this site, hold no personal animosity towards the folks on the other side of this issue, but we will never seem to be able to convince one another that the other is wrong. I echo your sentiment right back at ya - I forgive you for not knowing what you are doing to this community. Reminds me of a scene from the movie Gods and Generals, where a union soldier and a rebel meet each other on christmas and exchange coffee and tobacco, knowing that tomorrow they will probably have to shoot one another over their respective beliefs. god bless you and yours this easter season.

[waterbaby149]

I am tired of the accusation that the Farley family is ok with this removal of the dedication to a member of their family. The Joint Veterans have been in contact with this family member and his response is- what the community wants?? Well that being the case - let the community decide - put it on the ballot
and to the party who said that the Lions National and the Veterans National came down on the local groups - you are wrong - investigate your facts
It is obvious that this is a contraversal issue - look at all the new parties now on this site - read your Folsom Telegraph - the letters to the editors - make yourself aware of the facts
again you are welcome to the recall meeting every Friday night -7:00 p.m. at the VFW Hall on Forrest
and while you all attack Grandpa Babe for not being a Folsom resident - I am a Folsom resident - I am on the recall committee nd I am one of those party's circulating the petitions!!! So if you would like to meet and talk with a Folsom resident - let me know!! I have plenty of information, documents, newspapers articles to support the recall and the relocation of the library!!

[billsfan]

Grandpa and Waterbay – I’d love to see your fact sheet and points layed out here, but assume they are the same as the one’s that you have expressed on this forum. The fact is you are putting your personal/organizational opinion above the needs of the city’s and residents.

It’s obvious that your unhappy with the process, but the cc did listen to your arguments, but chose to build the library at the site chosen. I believe the cc’s decision is support by a large majority of our residents. There is no malice or alterative motive intended by the cc – in fact they have attempted to work with the veterans groups to enhance the memorial in the library. It’s not up to the cc to change their mind, but you guys accept the decision and show leadership by moving forward and making this a successful project, rather than waste money and time with an election measure.

If everyone that didn’t agree with a cc decision started a petition drive, we would have constant chaos. I guess we’ll just need to agree to disagree on this….

[waterbaby149]

whatever

[grandpa babe]

To Waterbaby. Your reply of "whatever" indicates your frustration and disgust with the people on this web site. When you feel such feelings please remember your door to door campaign and the support you receive from the real voters. Like you, I am tiring of this site and I believe it is taking way too much of our time. Keep your chin up, you know you represent the majority.

To billsfan. I would like to take ahnold's advise and not "waste my breath" or my fingers trying to reason with you. However, as I am sure you know by now I have deep feelings over this issue so I will continue to work to make tomorrow a better day for this community.

First, the Lions nor the veterans are "putting our opinion above the needs of the city and its residents." We really believe and support the need for a new library!!! We have only stated this fact a "gillion" times. We simply do not see any facts that the city and its residents (I believe they are the same) wants the library on the Farley ball field, The City Park.

Your second and concurrent contention is that the cc decision is supportive by a "large majority of our residents." Please note that as honestly and truly as anything I have ever posted on this site, I tell you this:

In the past 8 weeks we have collected nearly 5000 (4892) signatures in support of the recall and the initiative. The effort averages 9 in 10 toward the support of both the recall and the initiative. As unbelievable as it may sound, most of the 9 in 10 have been unaware of this issue and when presented with "our facts" they simply shake their heads and ask "where do I sign?" In spite of how they were elected, I personally feel confident that on this issue the cc represents less than 10% of the desires of this community--please come and walk a neighborhood with our signature collectors. Based on your current opinion, I am equally confident that you will be shocked at the community's real desire.

I am also confident that I have not changed your mind, but I have shared to the best of my ability, the community's feelings as I know them--and I have spent hundreds of hours surveying the thoughts of the community on this issue. It is just possible that one of us is on the wrong "community side" of this issue. When you have spent a few hundred hours going door to door, please share with me your personal findings and not what you hear from someone else.

To annierose. I posted to this site that I would always be honest and forthright to my posting replies and I believe that I have lived up to my pledge. However, your identity of me that I am not a Folsom resident only tells a part of the story and reflects a deceptiveness about your character. Please also let everyone know that I am a 26-year member of the Folsom Lions Club; a 22 year veteran; contributed more than 6000 personal hours to the City of Folsom; and a 40 year mason/shriner devoting more than 1000 hours per year to the areas Shriners Hospital for burned children--in fact I have personally sponsored 22 children from the city of Folsom for care!!! I think I am entitled to an opinion if not a vote. One last item, please know that the charter cc members of this city were Lions--three for sure and we believe all five in fact. In short, I can build a case that the city would not be what we know it today without major support of the Lions Club members. Please note that without the Lions and a city, there would be no Rotary Club. Besides I thought we were discussing a place to expand the mind not an item to rest the butt.

[billsfan]

Grandpa - I hope you understand that the reason I expressed my viewpoint is that I feel very passionate about the need for a library and believe delaying the effort further is unnecessary. And I realize that you too support the building of a new library. I've seen your passion and will send you a personal e-mail to meet in person to go over your facts and understand your stance. But again the one's so far presented have not convinced me.

Congratulations on collecting signatures on your petition drive - but of course when you get people to sign you only presented your side of the facts. I would propose to set up some public debates on the matter in other areas of town with equal representation from the cc and veterans, and then survey the attendees.

I'd also like to see opinions from some of the more family and younger members of this forum. Can someone set up a poll on this issue?

[Stephen]

QUOTE (Riverwalker @ Apr 6 2004, 01:07 PM)

And you know what ? It is not even THAT important to build a new library.  WE dont need one. With the internet and the other better ones in Sac and at the University, what is Folsom trying to accomplish ?  A bee in their Bonnet ?? I have no intentions of going back to read the 211 previous posts on this topic, but I can tell you if there was a vote today, the majority would rather see a ball field in it current location and a little ole library that very few will use- moved elsewhere. So get off the mighty Saddle and get a grip. It is a PET project, AT BEST.

I couldn't disagree with you more!!

Thanks billsfan, bordercollie, Ahnold & Candy Apple. I'm with you 100% on this.