284 replies to this topic

[eVader]

oh, I didn't know he was threatening anyone, I just thought he was in a room all by himself. I just wish they could have called in someone that was better trained to handle the situation, and maybe this was a lesson learned and next time there can be a better outcome.

Did you read the recent article linked above? The guy had a knife, the officers were NOT rookies.

[Darthvader]

exactly, you didn't know...because you weren't there.
quote from the bee :Han stood up, holding a knife, and told him to get out of his room or he'd "cut his throat," Hillman said."

who else would you have called to deal with that? Dr Phil?

Why didn't they use tear gas? They could have tossed a can of that in there and taken him easily. So many non-lethal alternatives that were not used.

[eVader]

Why didn't they use tear gas? They could have tossed a can of that in there and taken him easily. So many non-lethal alternatives that were not used.

Glad you can armchair quarterback this on.

We should raise questions but there is an end point especially when TV and movies are our only "experience and skillset" to law enforcement.

[irish1]

Why didn't they use tear gas? They could have tossed a can of that in there and taken him easily. So many non-lethal alternatives that were not used.

Ya know, for a person who wears a helmet and mask and advertises 'superior intellect..' you're reading comprehension could use some dusting off.... my opinion.... and stated with all due respect. geez!

[irish1]

I wonder why the police just didn't leave after they realized they could not help. The young man told them to leave, why did they have to push their way back into the bedroom that was cluttered and only 9x9...

This is gonna be hard to explain, really. But to satisfy your curiosity, the ofc'rs 'pushed their way back into the bedroom...' because by that point, I understand that he had been both tazered and shot with a handgun. Not a good time to leave at that point. I'm just sayin... hope that helps.

[Darthvader]

Ya know, for a person who wears a helmet and mask and advertises 'superior intellect..' you're reading comprehension could use some dusting off.... my opinion.... and stated with all due respect. geez!

WTH are you talking about? Doesn't answer the question. Or did things escalate and got so chaotic too quickly to think about that?

[irish1]

WTH are you talking about? Doesn't answer the question. Or did things escalate and got so chaotic too quickly to think about that?

I do understand the questioning of... 'why didn't the cops use (O.C. spray? pepper balls? wooden bullets? batons? CS gas? CN gas? bean bag gun? throw a MHP in the room and close the door etc etc...) The short answer is because as it is today, an ofc's utility belt (Sam Brown) is already weighted down with (on avg.) 35 pounds of gear, that is absolutely necessary to carry. If we had to drag around with us, all the technology that exists today in one form or another, we'd all be pulling red wagons behind us on ropes for crying out loud.

I really believe the press release explained well what the conditions were at the time of this tragic incident, and truly made an attempt to relate how the whole thing went down in a very short time, with no window whatsoever to fall back and regroup. It was a no-win situation, really. The sad fact is, even if the ofc's had all of those tools at their disposal, there was no time to select and deploy. It was apparently that swift and continuous.... And my apology for the helmet remark.... really.

[Darthvader]

I do understand the questioning of... 'why didn't the cops use (O.C. spray? pepper balls? wooden bullets? batons? CS gas? CN gas? bean bag gun? throw a MHP in the room and close the door etc etc...) The short answer is because as it is today, an ofc's utility belt (Sam Brown) is already weighted down with (on avg.) 35 pounds of gear, that is absolutely necessary to carry. If we had to drag around with us, all the technology that exists today in one form or another, we'd all be pulling red wagons behind us on ropes for crying out loud.

I really believe the press release explained well what the conditions were at the time of this tragic incident, and truly made an attempt to relate how the whole thing went down in a very short time, with no window whatsoever to fall back and regroup. It was a no-win situation, really. The sad fact is, even if the ofc's had all of those tools at their disposal, there was no time to select and deploy. It was apparently that swift and continuous.... And my apology for the helmet remark.... really.

Yeah I'm sure you're sorry. I guess they can't carry anything in the trunk of that car or in that Mobile Armored car unit they drive around? Poor excuse really.

And if you believe everything you read in a Sacbee article then that is another problem altogether. I think this thread should end, the cops are always right and have justification, no need to question. Just move along, nothing to see here.

[irish1]

Yeah I'm sure you're sorry. I guess they can't carry anything in the trunk of that car or in that Mobile Armored car unit they drive around? Poor excuse really.

And if you believe everything you read in a Sacbee article then that is another problem altogether. I think this thread should end, the cops are always right and have justification, no need to question. Just move along, nothing to see here.

I wasn't being sarcastic when I offered my apology regarding the helmet remark. And as for the rest, well, it speaks for itself. I can't argue against light-weight hate and distrust. However, please do call us if you need us. Have a good day.

[ducky]

Thanks for trying to explain, Irish1. No matter what you do, some people will never get it. Some will block out the facts because of grief, some because of outright hate for law enforcement, and some who always think they know it all even though they've never been on the other end of an attack on their life.

[old soldier]

Why didn't they use tear gas? They could have tossed a can of that in there and taken him easily. So many non-lethal alternatives that were not used.

I remember a movie where the good guy said you never should take a knife to a gun fight. I am jus thinking they could have shut the door and regrouped. they had confirmed the guy was not right mentally. they could have got a bean bag gun from their trunk if they have them. The police have everything else so they probably do.

I kinda laugh about the 35 pounds of stuff on their belts. It would be hard for me to remember where everything was

I think about the same time the CHP shut down I 80 so they could talk a bad guy with hostages into surrendering. I am sure they could have taken him out with a sniper rather than talk him into surrendering.

I agree once they shot him they had to go back in cause if they left and he was in bad medical shape folks would be mad about that.

its always a problem when there is a language problem,

[Rickykicks]

I know Joe Han, I went to high school with him. He was good kid, a college grad and according to his closest friends he was just going through a hard time in his life.

This post has just turned into what the police should/should not of done. In my opinion they shouldn't have even been called in the first place.

[Inwit]

I know Joe Han, I went to high school with him. He was good kid, a college grad and according to his closest friends he was just going through a hard time in his life.

This post has just turned into what the police should/should not of done. In my opinion they shouldn't have even been called in the first place.

Aw, so it's the parents fault?

If you were the parents and your child was acting all crazy, was known to be armed with a knife and was refusing to come out of their bedroom, who would you call?

As they did call the cops, I am under the presumption he most likely had already threatened them with "cutting their heads off" if they entered the room, or some other type of threat which made the parents uncomfortable with trying to remove him themselves and asking for police assistance.

[Darthvader]

I remember a movie where the good guy said you never should take a knife to a gun fight. I am jus thinking they could have shut the door and regrouped. they had confirmed the guy was not right mentally. they could have got a bean bag gun from their trunk if they have them. The police have everything else so they probably do.

I kinda laugh about the 35 pounds of stuff on their belts. It would be hard for me to remember where everything was

I think about the same time the CHP shut down I 80 so they could talk a bad guy with hostages into surrendering. I am sure they could have taken him out with a sniper rather than talk him into surrendering.

I agree once they shot him they had to go back in cause if they left and he was in bad medical shape folks would be mad about that.

its always a problem when there is a language problem,

I just don't quite get the "you do this I'll do that" thinking in this situation. From what I have read it goes like this: You want to fight, cop uses a baton, you want to use a knife, cop uses taser and gun. OK so then if you use a gun do the cops call in an air strike for ground support? Again, they had so many options that weren't applied.

I'd say they under-estimated this situtation completely.