749 replies to this topic

[MsTeaz]

Before retiring... We just came upon a question which we think needs to be answered by the community. We just looked up the webster definition of Pornography = "material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement".

Does the community consider any and/or all the art of Vargas Pornographic? In all seriousness - where do we draw the line? We will have to porno videos and no porno magazines. We did hope to have beautiful art, however. Should this be censored?

[MsTeaz]

Had a typo... and didn't want to have someone read into it... "NO Porno videos/ NO Porno mags" if we end up with a shop.... We are hopeful that we will.... Must retire - we're both having to correct our spelling since we're at the end of our ropes (and please do not read into this too) - just very trying on our family life. We will be in the shop tomorrow working & still hopeful that we will be on the street thereafter.

Good night,
Sam & Misty

[Steve Heard]

Welcome Sam and Misty

To those of you out there who believe these people have a right to open their store, please let the merchants and the city know about it.

This is scary.

[cybertrano]

1. And those of you who care about what is going in our city, our values, AND not just "what is good for our market", speak up. Well said bcFan, forumreader, pcLady.

the City is reviewing the adult businesses ordinance and considering ways to enhance the ordinance. will see the result.

[Steve Heard]

I think this is more about fear, ignorance and a campaign of spreading rumors and untruths, than what is best for our community.

I think that having 6 bars within 100 yards of one another, and the kind of people some of those bar attracts is more a threat to our community and family valures than a lingerie shop. Where is the outcry over that?

We don't want porn in Folsom? Ms. Teaz doesn't sell porn! The liquor store less than 100 yards from Sutter Middle School does. Kids go there for candy every day. Where's the rage over that?

We don't want 'novelty' items? The record store right near Sutter Middle sells things that are in questionable taste, and I'd bet 90% of it is bought by teens.
I don't hear any complaints there.

We don't want to hurt property values? Let's not turn Folsom into a fearful oppressive community that will discourage people from living here.

Trust me. What is happening today is not good for the community.

[forumreader]

stevethedad:
I truly respect you for having taken the time to visit the shop and speak to the owners. I hope the shop will be as relatively benign as you and the owners say. Yet I think it is neither sad nor scary that the opening of this shop is being strongly questioned and even opposed.

It would be sad if Folsom were a community that simply didn't care about the nature of the businesses and activities in the community. It would be sad if Folsom residents weren't concerned that a business which caters to an adult crowd might be bringing destructive elements into the community.

We should be concerned! The multibillion-dollar pornography industry has already crept into cable television and the Internet in a blatant way. What is more challenging perhaps is the subtle mass-media influence on our youth. The media bombards our society with the idea that casual sex is OK....So it's not out-and-out pornography, but we should not naively accept that it is not pernicious.

Let me clearly state that I am not sugggesting that Ms. Teaz has the intention of bringing dangerous, hard-core pornography into our community or attempting to challenge healthy family values. But we must ask ourselves how such a business might directly or subtly affect our community. Ms. Teaz asks where we should draw the line between Vargas art and pronography. I think we should be asking ourselves where we draw the line on the other end of the spectrum. In other words, where does Ms. Teaz draw the line between their "soft pornography"/adult items and outright pornography?

Steve, neither do I think it is scary that we are having these discussions. I don't think this is the equivalent of a present-day lynch mob. As you and I know, discussions on this board quite often digress, with members hurling personal attacks against one another. (Hey, I've already been coined a sheltered prude whose children you should feel sorry for!!) -- Violent attacks or threats against a business owner would be a greater danger to our community than the addition of an adult/lingerie shop on Sutter St.

I think we are in agreement that there are both facts and rumors circulating in the community. We need to extract the facts in order to have a meaningful and useful discussion about Ms. Teaz......The rest is all general talk about pornography/"adult" items and their dangers or merits -- depending on which side of the fence you find yourself.

[forumreader]

We don't want porn in Folsom? Ms. Teaz doesn't sell porn! The liquor store less than 100 yards from Sutter Middle School does. Kids go there for candy every day. Where's the rage over that?

We don't want 'novelty' items? The record store right near Sutter Middle sells things that are in questionable taste, and I'd bet 90% of it is bought by teens.
I don't hear any complaints there.

Until yesterday, I didn't know porn could be purchased at any run-of-the-mill liquor store. If I were "Dictator for the Day," it would be GONE!!......And there is no surprise that a record store is full of items of "questionable taste." Why wouldn't it be? The air waves are full of it too.................Oh no! Someone is going to jump all over me about censorship. Please don't. I'm not trying to start a censorship of the airwaves debate. I'm just dreaming about being "Dictator for the Day" and cleaning things up.

My point is that there seems to be enough unsavory material in our community already. Why bring in more, if indeed that is what this shop will have? (But then again, maybe they won't.)

[cybertrano]

very well said forumreader. i am sitting on the same side of the fence as some of the posters here - forumreader, pcLady, bcFan, etc.

i don't think there is anything scary about this issue.

if you guys read the Sacbee article, it said:
.......................
"Bernau stressed that the Historic District is economically fragile, with many businesses struggling to survive in light of the Folsom Dam Road closure. The possibility of Ms. Teaz's presence on Sutter Street could drive customers and prospective businesses away, he said. R.E.Y. Engineers, a major tenant in an upcoming development, is threatening to pull out if Ms. Teaz opens its doors.
"
............................
"Dan McNeil, president of the merchants group, added that many are concerned that Ms. Teaz would jeopardize the area's revitalization efforts and drive away families from visiting."

Ok, anyone looking out for the well being of these business people who may lose customers because of the possibility of Ms. Teaz?

So far I don't see any, except that Ms. Teaz is a victim.

The rest is all general talk about pornography/"adult" items and their dangers or merits -- depending on which side of the fence you find yourself.

[bordercolliefan]

Very well put, Forumreader. The essence of democracy is that we do question what is happening in our communities.

There has been some suggestion that the discussion on this Board has been based on unfounded rumors. Let's remember, however, that much of the concern stemmed from the description of the store offered at the City Council meeting. As I understand it, this came from someone connected with the landlord, who had personally viewed a store that Ms.Teaz stated was a "model" for their store. So, I wonder if Ms.Teaz has (perhaps inadvertently) contributed to the "rumors" surrounding their store by steering people in the wrong direction (or perhaps they have changed direction after hearing the outcry).

I'm glad that the City Council is taking residents' concerns seriously and ensuring that the store will be more toward the tasteful side and not toward the explicit side.

Ms.Teaz, why did you decide to open your store here in Folsom instead of in Old Fair Oaks? I would think a business-owner would want to live in the community where their store is.

[slowthegrowth]

Myfolsom readers/contributors: The owners have stated their position on what will/won't be included in their store. It would appear that all of the speculation can now end regarding content.

With that in mind, and taking into consideration what they have stated as facts, do you all still have a problem with them opening their store in Old Folsom?

It looks like folks want to discuss everything from general sexual morality to the communities power in keeping certain businesses OUT of their town if they so choose....

Now that the FACTS have become clear from the OWNERS on what this store will actually include, can we put the torches and pitchforks down?

[Orangetj]

To the owners of Ms. Teaz,

Welcome to Folsom and THANK YOU for being willing to invest your hard work and life savings in our town. I hope that your venture meets with success and that you are not driven away by a few fearful people.

OrangeTJ

[cybertrano]

the decision will depend on the the reviewing the adult businesses ordinance and considering ways to enhance the ordinance. isn't it? before Mz Teaz can move forward with the shop opening.

i am not trying to discredit the Owner, but words came out of the owners can change too. of course, as the owner, he/she must say what sounds good to the customers.

[Adamal]

stevethedad:
I truly respect you for having taken the time to visit the shop and speak to the owners.  I hope the shop will be as relatively benign as you and the owners say.  Yet I think it is neither sad nor scary that the opening of this shop is being strongly questioned and even opposed.

It would be sad if Folsom were a community that simply didn't care about the nature of the businesses and activities in the community.  It would be sad if Folsom residents weren't concerned that a business which caters to an adult crowd might be bringing destructive elements into the community.

I think the problem is not that we where discussing this issue but some of the members on this forum where jumping to conclusions before getting the facts.

We should be concerned!  The multibillion-dollar pornography industry has already crept into cable television and the Internet in a blatant way.  What is more challenging perhaps is the subtle mass-media influence on our youth.  The media bombards our society with the idea that casual sex is OK....So it's not out-and-out pornography, but we should not naively accept that it is not pernicious.

What is wrong with casual sex? As long as its safe and by two consenting adults.

Let me clearly state that I am not sugggesting that Ms. Teaz has the intention of bringing dangerous, hard-core pornography into our community or attempting to challenge healthy family values.  But we must ask ourselves how such a business might directly or subtly affect our community.  Ms. Teaz asks where we should draw the line between Vargas art and pronography.  I think we should be asking ourselves where we draw the line on the other end of the spectrum.  In other words, where does Ms. Teaz draw the line between their "soft pornography"/adult items and outright pornography?

Why don't you go ask Ms. Teaz and come back with facts.

Steve, neither do I think it is scary that we are having these discussions.  I don't think this is the equivalent of a present-day lynch mob.  As you and I know, discussions on this board quite often digress, with members hurling personal attacks against one another.  (Hey, I've already been coined a sheltered prude whose children you should feel sorry for!!)  -- Violent attacks or threats against a business owner would be a greater danger to our community than the addition of an adult/lingerie shop on Sutter St.

Without facts some of the members are acting like a lynch mob. Reacting without facts is a very dangerous thing. As far as the the personal attack, I never meant that as a personal attack, I was just using your post as an example. I am very sorry if it was taken as such,

I think we are in agreement that there are both facts and rumors circulating in the community.  We need to extract the facts in order to have a meaningful and useful discussion about Ms. Teaz......The rest is all general talk about pornography/"adult" items and their dangers or merits -- depending on which side of the fence you find yourself.

I completely agree with you here.

[pampChefLady]

Very well put, Forumreader.  The essence of democracy is that we do question what is happening in our communities. 

There has been some suggestion that the discussion on this Board has been based on unfounded rumors.  Let's remember, however, that much of the concern stemmed from the description of the store offered at the City Council meeting.  As I understand it, this came from someone connected with the landlord, who had personally viewed a store that Ms.Teaz stated was a "model" for their store.  So, I wonder if Ms.Teaz has (perhaps inadvertently) contributed to the "rumors" surrounding their store by steering people in the wrong direction (or perhaps they have changed direction after hearing the outcry). 

I'm glad that the City Council is taking residents' concerns seriously and ensuring that the store will be more toward the tasteful side and not toward the explicit side. 

Ms.Teaz, why did you decide to open your store here in Folsom instead of in Old Fair Oaks?  I would think a business-owner would want to live in the community where their store is.

YES, YES, YES. You took the words right out of my mouth! To add to that, I didn't see ANYONE who voiced concern "attack" the owners. There was no suggestion of intimidation or unruliness, no threats of physical violence - only discussion of what responsible community members could/should do.

I don't like being painted with the "gossiping, rumor-believer" brush when the "facts" were being taken from the city council meeting and published newspaper reports. It's not like we were just listening to someone at the local coffee shop! And Steve, if I can't believe what people write here, then I guess that goes for your report as well? With the direct response of the owner denying the inclusion of these items, I'm happy to take her word for it. I just hope the stuff is as tame as she says.

Lastly, I understand that many of you have no problem with pornography, casual sex, etc., but some of us see them as threats to our societyand more importantly, our families, and so we have the RIGHT and OBLIGATION to voice our concerns. I find it very troubling that so many people on this board dismissed our concerns as "ignorant" or "close-minded" without even discussing the actual details of the concerns - not so open to opinions that differ with your own??

Lastly, as I and others have already said - Ms. Teaz and the family running it are welcome on Sutter Street if the store is the tasteful, upscale lingerie shop it seems to be. I will certainly check it out (the front at least), and wish the owners best of luck while they are responsible community members!!

[bishmasterb]

Until yesterday, I didn't know porn could be purchased at any run-of-the-mill liquor store.

And you seriously corrected me for calling you "sheltered"? I've known that Liquor stores carry porn since I was 8.