343 replies to this topic

[Chris]

I think is has as well- If no two (more than one ) minds I would like to close this topic as what has been said has been said more than enough times...

I will give it a few hours for responses....

Cheers
F500

No, don't run away from it....! I don't even like the fact that you changed the title....! Keep the debate open and let's hash it out. No progress is made in society if we run and hide from our true feelings and are uncomfortable with topics. You just delay progress in society in the end by massaging titles, editing, and stopping debate. It will run it's course in time and we will all learn in the end whether we like the outcome and final consensus or not....! Chris

[john]

No, don't run away from it....! I don't even like the fact that you changed the title....! Keep the debate open and let's hash it out. No progress is made in society if we run and hide from our true feelings and are uncomfortable with topics. You just delay progress in society in the end by massaging titles, editing, and stopping debate. It will run it's course in time and we will all learn in the end whether we like the outcome and final consensus or not....! Chris

Somtimes we have to edit thread titles because the original title is not as explanatory. We also try to remove bias from titles as well, this is pretty common.

The bigger issue is respect. If people stop respecting others on thsi forum and are disrespectful and condescending - not only does that make the poster look bad, it makes this forum an unsavory place to visit. I will do everything in my power to keep people visiting.

[Robert Giacometti]

Zimmermans medical records are released.

http://gma.yahoo.com...topstories.html

Sounds like he was pretty well beat up, broken nose, black eyes, cuts to the back of the head, fat lip and back injury.

Something I've not heard before was that Zimmerman claims Martin appeared to reach for Zimmerman's gun tucked in his waistband and then this is when Zimmerman shot Martin.

I can't imagine any open minded person being able to convict Zimmerman of murder, beyond any reasonable doubt, under Florida's law, given all this information. Granted there could be evidence that we haven't heard about yet.

[folsom500]

Zimmermans medical records are released.

http://gma.yahoo.com/abc-news-exclusive-zimmerman-medical-report-shows-broken-204911351--abc-news-topstories.html

Sounds like he was pretty well beat up, broken nose, black eyes, cuts to the back of the head, fat lip and back injury.

Something I've not heard before was that Zimmerman claims Martin appeared to reach for Zimmerman's gun tucked in his waistband and then this is when Zimmerman shot Martin.

I can't imagine any open minded person being able to convict Zimmerman of murder, beyond any reasonable doubt, under Florida's law, given all this information. Granted there could be evidence that we haven't heard about yet.

I am not so sure- what was Zimmerman doing carrying a gun in his waistband ? It was obvious that Zimmerman chose not to stand down when he was told to on the 911 call. Was the shot he fired taken just because he THOUGHT Martin was going for his gun ? or was his gun out and Martin decided in a last ditch effort to see if he could take down Zimmerman with the threat of death he saw ?
I have not heard of the forensics but what it is point blank shot that might have occurred during and close contact fight or was it from a few feet away ?

Still lots of questions...

[Carl G]

I am not so sure- what was Zimmerman doing carrying a gun in his waistband ? It was obvious that Zimmerman chose not to stand down when he was told to on the 911 call. Was the shot he fired taken just because he THOUGHT Martin was going for his gun ? or was his gun out and Martin decided in a last ditch effort to see if he could take down Zimmerman with the threat of death he saw ?
I have not heard of the forensics but what it is point blank shot that might have occurred during and close contact fight or was it from a few feet away ?

Still lots of questions...

Zimmerman got a gun because his family was being menaced by a pit bull.

According to suggestions from the Zimmerman camp, he did stop following Trayvon and was returning to his truck when Trayvon confronted him. If you listen to the 911 tapes, this appears to be supported.

[Robert Giacometti]

I am not so sure- what was Zimmerman doing carrying a gun in his waistband ? It was obvious that Zimmerman chose not to stand down when he was told to on the 911 call. Was the shot he fired taken just because he THOUGHT Martin was going for his gun ? or was his gun out and Martin decided in a last ditch effort to see if he could take down Zimmerman with the threat of death he saw ?
I have not heard of the forensics but what it is point blank shot that might have occurred during and close contact fight or was it from a few feet away ?

Still lots of questions...

If there are lots of questions, how could anyone be found guilty of murder beyond any reasonable doubt?

I can see now why he wasn't orginally charged with anything. Its starting to look like more and more political pandering is a bigger part of this than should be!

[nomad]

My question is....why is Trayvon so important? There are many shootings of young men in this country, every month. Why is the media so focused on this young man?

I guess if he were killed in a “drive by” shooting, it wouldn’t even get a second glance from anyone.

It’s more political than anything else, and that is very clear.

Why, is the question.
Anyone have the guts to address this question?????

It's simple really, The POTUS said: "If I had a son, he would look like Treyvon." Nuf said.

[Steve Heard]

The bigger question is why did Trayvon attack Zimmerman and beat him so badly? Going for a man's gun always has lethal consequences.

Dude, if someone was beating you up as bad as those injuries indicate, you wouldn't be playing nice nice and wondering why you were being beaten, you would be worried more about surviving...

If someone was attacking me - I'd shoot too. Sometimes this country goes way overboard with political correctness.

Perhaps if Trayvon had just gone home none of this would have happened - instead he decided to attack Zimmerman, that is where the problem started. Someone following you does not cause the need to turn around and attack them.

Therein lies the problem.

There are several 'if only' scenarios here.

If only Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car. If only Trayvon hadn't been wearing that hoodie. If only Trayvon had gone home. If only he the confrontation hadn't taken place.

We don't know that Trayvon attacked first. Maybe he did, but we don't know.

I recall his girlfriend, who was on the phone with him at the time, describing him as being scared because someone was following him, and hearing someone say 'what are you doing around here', before the phone went dead.


If that's true, it's not a case of Trayvon approaching Zimmerman, but vice versa. We may never know the truth.

I'll bet that if either party had to do it over again, it would have ended differently.

I think the proof of the injuries could ease the fears of many of the protestors who thought that part of the story was made up after the fact. I also wonder if he might be found guilty of something for following Trayvon in the first place.

[Steve Heard]

Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch captain, he didn't do anything wrong by following Trayvon, especially when he fit the description of the guys who had been burglarizing the neighborhood the previous weeks.

According to reports, he was the self-appoointed watch captain and the only member of the neighborhood watch program. He was advised by the dispatcher not to follow Martin.

Why is it so easy to believe the girlfriend is lying rather than the guy accused of the crime?

It is indeed easy to villify Trayvon but also easy to villify Zimmerman. He bragged on his myspace page several years back, “Every time I go to court, I win” after felony obstruction of justice and battery charges were reduced to a single misdemeanor.

He also talks about not getting "pinched" for a crime he helped commit because his buddies behind bars didn't drop a dime on him, saying, “They do a year and dont ever open thier [sic] mouth to get my arse pinched.”

According to an article in the Orlando Sentinel, Zimmerman called the police 46 times in the 13 months prior to the shooting, often to report suspicious characters. He called once to report his neighbor's open garage door. And in the sixth call, Zimmerman reports children are "habitually" playing in the street at dusk and running in front of cars.

Still, this doesn't make him a murderer, and the situation could have and should have been handled differently by both sides.

[Steve Heard]

"- You're a karate guy, if someone attacked you would you not use your karate skills to defend yourself at all costs? Heck yes you would, should you then be arrested for hurting your attacker? Heck no!"

Of course I would defend myself. I'll never be in Zimmerman's position, however, because part of my training is to know how to avoid troublesome situations. I would not have gotten out of my car if there was a large mysterious character walking through the neighborhood. I'd call the cops, who are paid to pursue such characters.

I might be trained to fight, but what if the other guy was too? What if he had a knife? A gun? I don't want to be the one to find out. I'd do my duty, as neighborhood watch folks are told to, and just call the cops and report the crime.

I don't want to be in the position of having to defend myself and to hurt someone.

Also, it doesn't seem logical that if this guy was an armed neighborhood watch captain who called the police just about every week to report something, and that he found a suspicious character and that character was bigger than him, uncooperative, and angry, that he'd turn his back to him and retreat. I think it would be more logical to back away rather than turn away.

Again, we weren't there and don't know, but if we're speculating on the girlfriend's honesty and Trayvon's actions, we can speculate on Zimmerman's.

- This I did not know, I wasn't aware that he had a criminal record - or had been arrested before.


Yes, for assault on his ex-girlfriend and once for resisting an officer with violence and battery of a law enforcement officer.

- If myspace is going to be used as evidence then so should facebook which showed Trayvon flashing gang signs.

That picture, which was first posted by Michele Malkin and then to FOX News, was later proven to be someone else, not Trayvon. It was done to make him seem like a bad kid.

- Why is everyone ignoring the fact that the complex had been having a rash of burgleries for months?


According to the article, it said that Zimmerman was frequently citing a 'rash of burglaries' but they did not uncover evidence of such.

- Agreed, the ultimate solution would have been for Trayvon to just walk home to his dad's house and that would have prevented this tragedy, but that didn't happen.... why he chose to attack Zimmerman after he was already walking back to his car we will never know.

Another way of looking at it is that Trayvon was a kid, Zimmerman is an adult. Zimmerman should have stayed in his car as he was advised to.

It reminds me of the story of the obstinate goats. Remember that one? It's one I read to my daughters many times when they were small.