284 replies to this topic

[mylo]

I just don't quite get the "you do this I'll do that" thinking in this situation. From what I have read it goes like this: You want to fight, cop uses a baton, you want to use a knife, cop uses taser and gun. OK so then if you use a gun do the cops call in an air strike for ground support? Again, they had so many options that weren't applied.

I'd say they under-estimated this situtation completely.

You bring a gun, cops bring SWAT. You bring a crew, cops bring an army. You bring an army, they call in airstrikes. Yes, it's always one higher escalation.

[EDH Jen]

Yes, it's always one higher escalation.

Is that when you bring in Chuck Norris?

[Rickykicks]

i've heard he has had everything from an 8 inch blade in his room to a swiss army knife, if it was a swiss army knife and his parents knew that was all he had, they one could argue that i was the parents fault.

[Carl G]

i've heard he has had everything from an 8 inch blade in his room to a swiss army knife, if it was a swiss army knife and his parents knew that was all he had, they one could argue that i was the parents fault.

My wife and I discussed the question of whether the police were the best organization to handle the situation. Given the facts, I believe the police acted appropriately. Knowing what I know now, I would not call the police. I would call someone in health services. I'm not sure if 911 was called, but I'm guessing the call was recorded. It would be interesting to hear it. What urgency was placed on the situation by the family and the "family friend" (as described in the Bee article)?

[normajean]

irish1

thank you for explaining what you could.
thank you for working for an amazing dept.
thank you for making me feel safe in my community.

[Malamute]

My wife and I discussed the question of whether the police were the best organization to handle the situation. Given the facts, I believe the police acted appropriately. Knowing what I know now, I would not call the police. I would call someone in health services. I'm not sure if 911 was called, but I'm guessing the call was recorded. It would be interesting to hear it. What urgency was placed on the situation by the family and the "family friend" (as described in the Bee article)?

hindsight is 20/20 , if I ever find myself in those parents situation, I think I would call a dentist, bring over the laughing gas, and I'ld gas him out.

[Carl G]

hindsight is 20/20 , if I ever find myself in those parents situation, I think I would call a dentist, bring over the laughing gas, and I'ld gas him out.

Exactly - For the family, friends and police this is a horrible tragedy. For me, I feel really bad for all those that are involved and I ask myself what I can learn from it. As a parent of three young children, I've made a mental note on how to handle a situation such as this if it were to ever come up.

[jafount]

Why didn't they use tear gas? They could have tossed a can of that in there and taken him easily. So many non-lethal alternatives that were not used.

I'm curious what you think "tear gas" actually does?

[mylo]

I'm curious what you think "tear gas" actually does?

It makes you sad

[SwiftKarateChop_3]

Andrea: I'm not familiar with Elkin Circle, but I live in NS, too -- this is disturbing to me. We've lived here close to 10 years now, and, as I was telling my hubby the other night, it's becoming "911 CENTRAL" around here. I go to bed and hear sirens non-stop coming down Blue Ravine headed towards Folsom Blvd. I don't really consider those tunes a "lullaby".

Hey, you are conceited. you're thinking about yourself trying to sleep when others are worried about their loved ones getting killed in car chrashes and such. so, NO YOU!


P.S. My mom sings lovely lullabies.

[Inwit]

I'm curious what you think "tear gas" actually does?

I know you weren't asking me, but having been gassed once (military training) I can attest to the fact it doesn't make you sad. It irritates moist sensitive parts of your body. so it makes your eyes burn (hence tear gas from the profuse watering of the eyes as a result of contact) and it makes your throat & lungs hurt causing you to cough.

It doesn't make you less violent, but it does make it hard to see where you are going and stuff.

In this instant, It probably would have driven him out of his room blindly flailing his knife as his irrational fear of everyone would have been aggravated by being gassed.

that's just my guess, but I think it's a pretty good one.

[SwiftKarateChop_3]

Is that when you bring in Chuck Norris?

haha. YES! and then we will all be saved!

[SwiftKarateChop_3]

I know you weren't asking me, but having been gassed once (military training) I can attest to the fact it doesn't make you sad. It irritates moist sensitive parts of your body. so it makes your eyes burn (hence tear gas from the profuse watering of the eyes as a result of contact) and it makes your throat & lungs hurt causing you to cough.

It doesn't make you less violent, but it does make it hard to see where you are going and stuff.

In this instant, It probably would have driven him out of his room blindly flailing his knife as his irrational fear of everyone would have been aggravated by being gassed.

that's just my guess, but I think it's a pretty good one.

that's a good guess.

but, i can think of something else that will cause your throat to hurt and cough.

[Darthvader]

I'm curious what you think "tear gas" actually does?

Makes it easier to control an out of control person.

[jafount]

Makes it easier to control an out of control person.

Hmmmm...I'd like to see how you would handle an out of control person who's just been CN or CS gassed. It really doesn't work like you hope it does. If it did, OC would have never been put into use. If that always worked, tasers wouldn't have been put into use, etc etc. You just can't pigeonhole this incident. Unlike math, people and their reactions are random, not an exact science. There is no playbook to whip out, which covers all scenarios.

Your suggestions, while well intentioned, are wholly uninformed and have no basis in fact or practical experience. Officers made a decision based on totality of circumstances at the time. The law does not require officers to "back down" or disengage from a suspect. There are to many "what if" scenarios at play here. If they disengaged and the guy slits his throat, they should have gone in. If the guy comes out and charges a family member with the knife, not only is the family member potentially killed, now the subject isn't confined to a more controllable area the officers acted irresponsibly. The list goes on and on.

Unfortunately, there is no answer that would give you the soothing relief you seem to be looking for, so you're going to have to accept the suppository of facts as they stand. Maybe next time you'll have easy-to-swallow answers.