749 replies to this topic

[pampChefLady]

And you seriously corrected me for calling you "sheltered"? I've known that Liquor stores carry porn since I was 8. 

Bish, what were you doing in liquor stores at 8! ;-)

[bishmasterb]

Bish, what were you doing in liquor stores at 8! ;-)

It was the 70s! My mom worked, so my friends and I often walked to the liquor store to buy candy, Star Wars trading cards and play video games.

[Cloud9]

Male genes...

[Adamal]

Lastly, I understand that many of you have no problem with pornography, casual sex, etc., but some of us see them as threats to our societyand more importantly, our families, and so we have the RIGHT and OBLIGATION to voice our concerns.  I find it very troubling that so many people on this board dismissed our concerns as "ignorant" or "close-minded" without even discussing the actual details of the concerns - not so open to opinions that differ with your own??

I think both sides are equally as guilty of being closed minded.

I can understand that you have a problem with pornography and casual sex, but I do not (in the right context). Why should I be forced to drive to other communities for this stuff because you don't like it. If you don't like it don't go there.

Let me make a hypotectical scenario: say members in this community felt that churches and other places of worship where a threat to society. Would you want your place of worship to forced out by a small group of people whom are against it? I know a Lingerie Shop is nothing like a place of worship but I feel it helped make a point.

[Cloud9]

I was going to bring up the place of worship angle here.

Rest assured that if you were going to open up a satanic church in this community, the community would be up in arms.

[Steve Heard]

YES, YES, YES.  You took the words right out of my mouth!  To add to that, I didn't see ANYONE who voiced concern "attack" the owners.  There was no suggestion of intimidation or unruliness, no threats of physical violence - only discussion of what responsible community members could/should do. 

I don't like being painted with the "gossiping, rumor-believer" brush when the "facts" were being taken from the city council meeting and published newspaper reports.  It's not like we were just listening to someone at the local coffee shop!  And Steve, if I can't believe what people write here, then I guess that goes for your report as well?   With the direct response of the owner denying the inclusion of these items, I'm happy to take her word for it.  I just hope the stuff is as tame as she says.

Lastly, I understand that many of you have no problem with pornography, casual sex, etc., but some of us see them as threats to our societyand more importantly, our families, and so we have the RIGHT and OBLIGATION to voice our concerns.  I find it very troubling that so many people on this board dismissed our concerns as "ignorant" or "close-minded" without even discussing the actual details of the concerns - not so open to opinions that differ with your own??

Lastly, as I and others have already said - Ms. Teaz and the family running it are welcome on Sutter Street if the store is the tasteful, upscale lingerie shop it seems to be.  I will certainly check it out (the front at least), and wish the owners best of luck while they are responsible community members!!

Lisa

You are right to question my report. I hope you will also question the others, as well. What was said at the city council meeting was not said by the city council, nor by the shop owners, but by people who are opposed to it.

Don't take their word for it, or mine. Go there yourself and see. This store isn't about casual sex. The owners are a married couple.

While you may not feel the owners are being attacked, they sure do. They have
been accused of running a sleazy porn shop, complete with peep shows and bestiality tapes. Not true, so yes, it appears they are being attacked.

This isn't about whether or not we're okay with or bothered by pornography, because that's not what they are selling.

I keep reading, 'If they are selling this', or 'If they are selling that'. I just hope people go there and find out for themselves.

If you are then satisfied that this is a normal family running a normal business, I hope you will all voice your concerns about the way they are currently being viewed.

In fact, one of the merchants has started a petition of supporters and it is there in the store for people to sign. I hope people have the courage to sign it.

[Adamal]

Lisa

You are right to question my report. I hope you will also question the others, as well. What was said at the city council meeting was not said by the city council, nor by the shop owners, but by people who are opposed to it.

Don't take their word for it, or mine. Go there yourself and see. This store isn't about casual sex. The owners are a married couple.

While you may not feel the owners are being attacked, they sure do.  They have
been accused of running a sleazy porn shop, complete with peep shows and bestiality tapes. Not true, so yes, it appears they are being attacked.

This isn't about whether or not we're okay with or bothered by pornography, because that's not what they are selling.

I keep reading, 'If they are selling this', or 'If they are selling that'. I just hope people go there and find out for themselves.

If you are then satisfied that this is a normal family running a normal business, I hope you will all voice your concerns about the way they are currently being viewed.

In fact, one of the merchants has started a petition of supporters and it is there in the store for people to sign. I hope people have the courage to sign it.

I would like to add to this if I might. If you don't like some of the thing this new business will be selling you should talk to the owner and ask him/her not to sell that item any more. If enough people voice their opinions I'm sure they would remove what the community deemed as bad.

[CataBird]

Please forgive me if I'm misreading your post, but is the implication here that the use of sex toys by married couples constitutes "sexual immorality and debauchery"?  It seems to me that there is much here that is open to interpretation, and I'm just trying to gain an understanding of what your interpretation is.

By the way, while I don't personally see a problem with the shop going in, I agree wholeheartedly with your recommendations of actions people who are opposed to this type of store could take.  Certainly, anybody with a strong opinion one way or the other would do well to actually DO something about it rather than just complaining about the outcome.

Wow, Orangetj,

Is this shop going to limit its sales to only married couples? I seriously doubt they can or would even try! It would certainly be a nice thought that only married couples would be interested in such things, however naive the thought may be.

Unfortunately, shops like these attract people from all walks of life--especially kinky ones (married or not!). These walks include sexual sadists, Sado Masochists, and virtually anyone harboring abnormal sexual fantasies.

Guess what? Sexually violent criminals such as rapists, pedopheliacs, and even serial killers are known to exhibit behavior initiated from abnormal sexual fantasies.

Sutter Street is a tourist attraction. Do you think Folsom wants a smut store attracting such ugly elements of society to a tourist attraction?

[Adamal]

Unfortunately, shops like these attract people from all walks of life--especially kinky ones (married or not!).  These walks include sexual sadists, Sado Masochists, and virtually anyone harboring abnormal sexual fantasies.

These people make up less than 1% of the population and normally don't go to Lingerie Shops for their material. At least I've never seen a report that said so.

Guess what?  Sexually violent criminals such as rapists, pedopheliacs, and even serial killers are known to exhibit behavior initiated from abnormal sexual fantasies.

How are sex toys being considered abnormal sexual fantasies.


Drinking can causes the same effects that you have specified and is normally used in those activites yet there is a bar already in the area? Which is worse?

[Cloud9]

ban cucumbers!

[Orangetj]

Anyway, I believe married couples should be able to do whatever they both ENJOY together, as long as no one is getting physically or mentally abused in the process.  For, what a couple does in joy only serves to strengthen their love bond, which, in turn, strengthens their union.

However, in our Bible, Romans chapter 13, verses 11-14 says:
"And do this, understanding the present time.  The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.  The night is nearly over, the day is almost here.  So, let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.  Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dessention and jealousy.  Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature."

CataBird,

Considering that you followed your paragraph about married couples with a "However, in our Bible...", it seemed to me that you were in fact implying that your statement applied to married couples. Perhaps I misunderstood. Personally, I have nothing against unmarried couples doing the same things provided that nobody is getting hurt and both parties enjoy the activity.

I have no illusion (nor even any preference) that a business such as this will market its wares only to married couples. I think it is a big leap to go from what the owners of this store have told us they'll be selling to insinuating that their type of business caters to rapists, pedophiles and serial killers.

Take a look at the stats posted by Cloud9. If you think that it's only some undesireable and abnormal/deviant part of society that would have a use for the products to be sold, I think you are woefully misinformed. "Normal" people use and enjoy these kinds of things all the time. If you don't like what they're selling, nobody is going to force you to buy it. Given that the owners don't seem to have any intention of running a cheesy and tacky operation, I simply don't understand what the worry is.

If you ask me, Sutter Street is badly in need of some variety, some change from the standard overstuffed, overpriced antique and "collectible" shops behind virtually every window right now.

[Cloud9]

For your convenience....

Follow the link, to the link, to the link....

http://www.tomatopag...indpost&p=35210

[MsTeaz]

Sam & I just returned from the Chamber of Commerce Mixer tonight where we were able to socialize and acquaint ourselves with many community members who are truly interested in being actively involved with Folsom - wonderful group of people (Sam showed up a little later in the evening once he dropped off our daughter with a sitter). For those who took the time to meet and talk with us - Thank You.

We have had several people walk into our store and talk to us personally about the rumors that still exist (such as someone saying that - someone connected to the owner of the building stood up and stated... - this statement is very incorrect and a perfect example of what we're still being faced with). Neither of us slept much last night. We got to the shop by 6:30am, worked till we picked up our daughter from after-school activities, then we made the time to out and get involved. With all the time and effort that is spent talking about us here - why not come, look us in the eye and judge us once you have talked to us personally? We can only say to this point that Steve has been humane enough to come to our store and ask blunt/clarifying questions.

The question still comes up "why a back room?" Well - we cannot please everyone. The small % who still has problems with items they call "Porn" (for example, we have had an individual who indicated he was repulsed by our Alberto Vargas "Sheer Elegance" which is considered to be a very beautiful art piece - reference: http://www.art.com/a...Y&TKID=2725999) - we will be more then happy to have in the "back room". Who do we look to as the Judge and Jury? We had looked to the laws, but they are VERY vague and are being looked at for change to suit a small group has big $’s and power. What of tomorrow? Where does one draw the line? What of our 1st Amendment rights as Americans? We're also faced with questions of why Folsom? The shop is very well suited for such a beautiful shop, and we both have worked in Folsom for the better part of our lives and shopped at your stores, eat at your restaurants, and even lived among you as well as having helped with your economy during our company involvement days. Moreover, we've spent endless days on the lake... We ask - why not Folsom? We wanted to bring something new and fun to the town we once thought as children was a fun town in the days long past.... What was the draw from Folsom Live? Was there not a HUGE crowd who found their way (around the closed roads, badly marked street signs, and needed parking) to the fun and activities to find that only a very small handful of shops where open during the function? The historic association pleaded with the merchants to stay open after 5pm - how many were open? The bars made out VERY well as did the restaurants from what the voice of the street has been opening sharing. There is an untapped nightlife which comes to life in the evening, and it are these people who we hope to spend fun filled evenings with in our horizon - these are the good people who we hope share our lives with and bring joy & happiness to them in return.

[CataBird]

Orangetj:


You said:
"These people make up less than 1% of the population and normally don't go to Lingerie Shops for their material. At least I've never seen a report that said so."

"How are sex toys being considered abnormal sexual fantasies." They're not. They are USED by peeps who have sexual fantasies, including those who have what our society would call abnormal sexual fantasies--involving violence.

"Drinking can causes the same effects that you have specified and is normally used in those activites yet there is a bar already in the area? Which is worse?" Drinking does not CAUSE anything save intoxication, loss of motor skills, slowing of response times, alcohol poisoning, and eventually liver disease. Drinking and driving can cause accidents, which may result in injuries or death to innocent people. Sure, statistics show that a lot of violent peeps are alcoholics, but they are not limited to perverts, sexual predators, serial killers, pedophiles, etc.

You "know" all this HOW? Oh, do you think your local news station is going to give you stats on crime? Get real. Go to your local library and check out a book titled, "Crime Classification Manual, A Standard System for Investigating and Classifying Violent Crimes" by individuals in the FBI 's National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime (John E. Douglas, Ann W. Burgess, Allen G. Burgess, and Robert K. Ressler). If your library doesn't have it, you might have to go to Borders or some other bookstore.

That book is the result of a ten-year-study conducted by the FBI, published in 1992. The book won the 1994 award for the most significant contribution to the literature of law enforcement intelligence from the International Association of Law Enforcement Intelligence Analysts.

Read the section titled, "RAPIST CLASSIFICATION" on page 194 of Chapter 3: Rape and Sexual Assault.

You can get accurate stats on crime in the U.S. by going to http://www.fbi.gov/ and looking for their Uniform Crime Report (UCR), which the FBI publishes on a yearly basis. Yes, I AM expecting you to do your own research, since--regardless of my law enforcement background or my education in Crime and Intelligence Analyses--you refuse to believe anything I say.

Happy hunting.

[Adamal]

"How are sex toys being considered abnormal sexual fantasies."  They're not.  They are USED by peeps who have sexual fantasies, including those who have what our society would call abnormal sexual fantasies--involving violence.

Using your drinking logic :

Sure, statistics show that a lot of violent peeps use sex toys, but they are not limited to perverts, sexual predators, serial killers, pedophiles, etc.

"Drinking can causes the same effects that you have specified and is normally used in those activites yet there is a bar already in the area? Which is worse?"  Drinking does not CAUSE anything save intoxication, loss of motor skills, slowing of response times, alcohol poisoning, and eventually liver disease.  Drinking and driving can cause accidents, which may result in injuries or death to innocent people.  Sure, statistics show that a lot of violent peeps are alcoholics, but they are not limited to perverts, sexual predators, serial killers, pedophiles, etc.

Alcohol is the leading date rape drug. That was my point, I guess I wasn't clear enough.

You "know" all this HOW?  Oh, do you think your local news station is going to give you stats on crime?  Get real.  Go to your local library and check out a book titled, "Crime Classification Manual, A Standard System for Investigating and Classifying Violent Crimes" by individuals in the FBI 's National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime (John E. Douglas, Ann W. Burgess, Allen G. Burgess, and Robert K. Ressler).  If your library doesn't have it, you might have to go to Borders or some other bookstore.

That book is the result of a ten-year-study conducted by the FBI, published in 1992.  The book won the 1994 award for the most significant contribution to the literature of law enforcement intelligence from the International Association of Law Enforcement Intelligence Analysts.

Read the section titled, "RAPIST CLASSIFICATION" on page 194 of Chapter 3: Rape and Sexual Assault.

You can get accurate stats on crime in the U.S. by going to http://www.fbi.gov/ and looking for their Uniform Crime Report (UCR), which the FBI publishes on a yearly basis.  Yes, I AM expecting you to do your own research, since--regardless of my law enforcement background or my education in Crime and Intelligence Analyses--you refuse to believe anything I say.

Happy hunting.

I did not know you had a background in law enforcement and its good to know. I'll take that underadvisement in future posts. However I don't understand the point to this part of your post. Was it part of my post about the less than 1% and where they tend to go? If so then what are the stats you have I would love to have them.