639 replies to this topic

[ericm2031]

What kind of retailers do you have in mind?

[EAH]

What kind of retailers do you have in mind?

Here's what I was hoping/ expecting to see considering Palladio was built as a high end "Lifestyle Center" :

Nordstrom
Bloomingdales
Macy's
Restoration Hardware
Pottery Barn
Crate and Barrel
Z Gallery - *Is it still on board???
Sur La Table
William Sonoma
Gap
Bebe
A/X Exchange
Ann Taylor
Banana Republic
J Crew
Anthropologie
Tommy Bahama
Chico's
Coldwater Creek
Victoria's Secret
Apple Store
Sunglass Specialty store
Sephora

Here are the restaurants I was hoping for and would actually dine at:

Bandara /Houstons- Consistantly great food

Bonefish Grill- Very good

The Capitol Grille-Very good

Cheesecake Factory-Why not??

California Pizza Kitchen- Great salads

Maggiano's Little Italy - Blows away Bucca, Macaroni, and of course Olive Garden

Legal Seafood- I can dream can't I?

Roys-LOVE Roys!!!

Le Pain Quotidien- Totally blows away Panera, La Bou, etc....

Here is what i am looking forward to so far:

Whole Foods
H&M

[WolfMom]

Completely agree. Echo thanks to Ericm for the updates. I'm in EDH and I can't believe Palladio can't draw better. At this point I'm pretty uninterested in what's coming.

I think it's a matter of timing. The few businesses that are thriving (and thus able to afford to expand) are the businesses that offer more quantity for the dollar. WalMart thrives on a down economy and spending money on expensive items is seen as irresponsible. (Company execs now get skewered for spending top dollar on suits, etc. And perhaps rightfully so? Who am I to judge, I am one of those that started shopping at WalMart when times got tough, I would much rather get everything at more Expensive Whole Foods and the like...))

Luxury has a black mark right now until folks in general see more prosperity. In short, the climate (local/national mood) for luxury is not conducive for expansion. More people are looking for cheap deals and this is the time that Palladio is trying to fill it's spaces. To survive, they must find the tenants that will pay the bills, may suck but that is survival. (After the 6th day starving to death lost in the woods, those worms you thought were gross may start looking pretty good, eh?)

Folsom/EDH can and will attract those stores when the economy and general mood inproves and can support the expansion of such ventures. There may be a turn-over in Palladio stores at that time. It takes looking at the long view.

[tsukiji]

What kind of retailers do you have in mind?

This is an excellent, very fair question and one I'd have to think about a little more for specifics. I think others have been providing excellent thoughts already as well. But off the cuff criteria (IMHO) would be:

1) Categories clothing, food, furnishings, activities, ??
2) Upscale (not necessarily high end) stores for each category; unique (limited volume chain, no franchise) or boutique vendors preferred
3) Products predominantly US, European or Japan made -- very little made in China. This is important to me - macro-economically, socially, politically, ethically, morally. Even at Nordstrom's, I won't buy a product made in China. Note that this creates a serious conflict for an Apple store.
4) Basically, small businesses catering to upscale (not high end) everyday lifestyles. Places one would visit at once a week or month. Not once a year or once a season. A business that doesn't compete with Costco and Amazon and internet retailers.

Examples only -- for brainstorm / concept (not necessarily these businesses).

Food:
Draeger's
Andronico's
Whole Food
Nijiya (I'd go here almost every day)
Oto's
Beard Papa's
Pacific Puff's
Fruitridge Bakery / Karen's Bakery

Restaurant:
brain overload -- will come back to this later
Il Fornaio / (I'm not averse to chains with well deserved reputations).
Yank Sing, Mayflower, Asia Pearl (chains with upper end Chinese Dim Sum)

Clothing:
come back later but something like the Men's section of Nordstrom's (well tailored shirts, slacks, trenchcoats, jackets, shoes, ...)
Shoe store: carrying Santoni, Ecco, Josef Seibel, etc

Furnishings:
Contemporary furniture: Scandinavian Designs-ish retailers
Local artist studios (Sac 2nd Saturday type studios?)
High end music store (catering to classical, jazz, vocal?) catering to audiophiles (no Pop except for things like classic rock)
Upper end kitchen store (carrying pro-cookware products like All-Clad, Aritsugu, etc)
Kinokuniya
Asakichi (something unique?)
Kiku Japanese Antiques (something unique?)
Apple Store


Activities:
Zeum (concept only)
A real cafe -- like what you would find in Europe or Asia. Not Starbucks with a couple of chairs.

[ericm2031]

Here's what I was hoping/ expecting to see considering Palladio was built as a high end "Lifestyle Center" :

Nordstrom
Bloomingdales
Macy's
Restoration Hardware
Pottery Barn
Crate and Barrel
Z Gallery - *Is it still on board???
Sur La Table
William Sonoma
Gap
Bebe
A/X Exchange
Ann Taylor
Banana Republic
J Crew
Anthropologie
Tommy Bahama
Chico's
Coldwater Creek
Victoria's Secret
Apple Store
Sunglass Specialty store
Sephora

Here are the restaurants I was hoping for and would actually dine at:

Bandara /Houstons- Consistantly great food

Bonefish Grill- Very good

The Capitol Grille-Very good

Cheesecake Factory-Why not??

California Pizza Kitchen- Great salads

Maggiano's Little Italy - Blows away Bucca, Macaroni, and of course Olive Garden

Legal Seafood- I can dream can't I?

Roys-LOVE Roys!!!

Le Pain Quotidien- Totally blows away Panera, La Bou, etc....

Here is what i am looking forward to so far:

Whole Foods
H&M

Those are great places; however, you're talking a 1,000,000+ square foot center (this is about half that size). Also, lifestyle centers aren't usually that large...nor do they usually house that many department stores (if any). That would be a mall the size of Arden, but imagine it being spread out across 1 level and not 2, and outside.

Also, pretty much every store you mentioned already has a presence in Roseville (and/or Arden) but there just isn't a large enough market for a 2nd or 3rd location in Sacramento.

Everyone, keep in mind, with the land that Folsom just annexed...I believe there is a regular mall site planned there as well.


Z Gallerie-lease out for signature
Ann Taylor-LOFT lease out for signature
Anthropologie-on the wish list
Coldwater Creek-lease out for signature
Victoria's Secret-lease out for signature
Sephora-Has a letter of intent
CPK-there's already Chicago Fire

[EAH]

Those are great places; however, you're talking a 1,000,000+ square foot center (this is about half that size). Also, lifestyle centers aren't usually that large...nor do they usually house that many department stores (if any). That would be a mall the size of Arden, but imagine it being spread out across 1 level and not 2, and outside.

Also, pretty much every store you mentioned already has a presence in Roseville (and/or Arden) but there just isn't a large enough market for a 2nd or 3rd location in Sacramento.

Everyone, keep in mind, with the land that Folsom just annexed...I believe there is a regular mall site planned there as well.


Z Gallerie-lease out for signature
Ann Taylor-LOFT lease out for signature
Anthropologie-on the wish list
Coldwater Creek-lease out for signature
Victoria's Secret-lease out for signature
Sephora-Has a letter of intent
CPK-there's already Chicago Fire

I'm sorry Eric, I didn't make myself clear. I meant that at least 1 of those anchor stores would have been expected. At least 2 homestores ( Restoration and Z Gallerie as examples) and at least 1 high end kitchen store ( Sur la table, William Sonoma). The clothing stores are are all de riguer at most malls ( these aren't even high end stores. I left out Coach, Chanel, and several others).
Roseville is not a hop skip and jump away if you live in El Dorado Hills.
Also Chicago Fire isn't nearly the same as CPK. Not that either one is better, just entirely different menus.
Eric, I want to thank you for all your feedback and participation in this thread. It's nice to finally have some real info.

[ericm2031]

I'm sorry Eric, I didn't make myself clear. I meant that at least 1 of those anchor stores would have been expected. At least 2 homestores ( Restoration and Z Gallerie as examples) and at least 1 high end kitchen store ( Sur la table, William Sonoma). The clothing stores are are all de riguer at most malls ( these aren't even high end stores. I left out Coach, Chanel, and several others).
Roseville is not a hop skip and jump away if you live in El Dorado Hills.
Also Chicago Fire isn't nearly the same as CPK. Not that either one is better, just entirely different menus.
Eric, I want to thank you for all your feedback and participation in this thread. It's nice to finally have some real info.

Once the new annexation develops, I would see more of a market for the stores. (Z Gallerie is out for signature, Coach is proposed, Chanel might be a stretch for Sacramento to ever get besides what is sold in department stores). The Folsom/EDH market is only about 100k people right now and really doesn't have much pull out of that area due to the other malls (Galleria, Arden, Sunrise).

Now Elk Grove is another story...it's seriously underserved by retail. For fun, I just pulled up the plans from back in '07 for that mall and it shocks me how many great retailers they had signed up for it that all backed out...almost the same with Palladio, except Palladio isn't far off from what was proposed back in '07 as well..and they were both being handled by the same leasing agents. Most retailers now are consolidating stores in metros in order to make each one more of a "destination" and higher volume, which lowers costs.

Arden really missed the gun and could have ruined the Galleria's party, but has yet to do anything significant to their mall entering it's 3rd decade since they last did anything (which was adding the 2nd level). The Galleria opened, expanded, and is now basically re-leasing the entire wing that burned down (I've heard some names tossed around that are new to the region once again).

Sorry for the ranting...unfortunately, the main point is, the Folsom market is extremely hard to market right now to retailers with the skepticism still. The Folsom market just isn't ready for that type of caliber store, which is why the developers have changed their approach over the years. There's definitely opportunities as the market improves to bring in those types of retailers if the market exists, but I wouldn't start holding your breath.

Oh and last thing on CPK...Yes, Chicago Fire is different, however, many restaurants (typically chains) put clauses in their leases to be the exclusive restaurant of that their specialty...in this case pizza. Another place could serve pizza...just not be primarily a pizza place. Happens with hamburger places all the time. Stores do it as well...there's a reason you don't see REI and Sports Authority in the same shopping center, or Borders/B&N, or any of the others (which have lost a lot of their competitors in the past few years...Circuit City and Linens N Things to name a couple)

[EAH]

Now Elk Grove is another story...it's seriously underserved by retail. For fun, I just pulled up the plans from back in '07 for that mall and it shocks me how many great retailers they had signed up for it that all backed out...almost the same with Palladio, except Palladio isn't far off from what was proposed back in '07 as well..and they were both being handled by the same leasing agents. Most retailers now are consolidating stores in metros in order to make each one more of a "destination" and higher volume, which lowers costs.


Oh and last thing on CPK...Yes, Chicago Fire is different, however, many restaurants (typically chains) put clauses in their leases to be the exclusive restaurant of that their specialty...in this case pizza. Another place could serve pizza...just not be primarily a pizza place. Happens with hamburger places all the time. Stores do it as well...there's a reason you don't see REI and Sports Authority in the same shopping center, or Borders/B&N, or any of the others (which have lost a lot of their competitors in the past few years...Circuit City and Linens N Things to name a couple)

Elk Grove tends to underperform as I understand it. I know The Sacramento Co- op was trying to choose between Folsom and Elk Grove for their second location years ago and Elk Grove won out handily. Unfortunately the store was a total bust and closed down 2 years later, and this was before the economy tanked. Elk Grove is not what i would consider a reliable built in market. Alot of the population are commuters, and the sub prime loans took a huge toll on Elk Grove.
This is an excellent study on why higher end retail might want to think twice about building in Elk Grove:
http://www.cooperativegrocer.coop/articles/2008-01-11/elk-grove-case-study

As far as CPK and Chicago Fire, I had no idea there were non comp clauses ...so that makes sense.

Eric, thanks again for your participation and information!

[Devdave]

Sur La Table sounds great!! Wish that could be a reality.

Cheesecake Factory - please no - like Ruby Tuesday's everything sounds great but is 1800+ Calories!...

Great to hear what's going on though Eric! Thanks for keeping us informed and to EAH for being a voice!

[Folsom2000]

Once the new annexation develops, I would see more of a market for the stores. (Z Gallerie is out for signature, Coach is proposed, Chanel might be a stretch for Sacramento to ever get besides what is sold in department stores). The Folsom/EDH market is only about 100k people right now and really doesn't have much pull out of that area due to the other malls (Galleria, Arden, Sunrise).

Now Elk Grove is another story...it's seriously underserved by retail. For fun, I just pulled up the plans from back in '07 for that mall and it shocks me how many great retailers they had signed up for it that all backed out...almost the same with Palladio, except Palladio isn't far off from what was proposed back in '07 as well..and they were both being handled by the same leasing agents. Most retailers now are consolidating stores in metros in order to make each one more of a "destination" and higher volume, which lowers costs.

Arden really missed the gun and could have ruined the Galleria's party, but has yet to do anything significant to their mall entering it's 3rd decade since they last did anything (which was adding the 2nd level). The Galleria opened, expanded, and is now basically re-leasing the entire wing that burned down (I've heard some names tossed around that are new to the region once again).

Sorry for the ranting...unfortunately, the main point is, the Folsom market is extremely hard to market right now to retailers with the skepticism still. The Folsom market just isn't ready for that type of caliber store, which is why the developers have changed their approach over the years. There's definitely opportunities as the market improves to bring in those types of retailers if the market exists, but I wouldn't start holding your breath.

Oh and last thing on CPK...Yes, Chicago Fire is different, however, many restaurants (typically chains) put clauses in their leases to be the exclusive restaurant of that their specialty...in this case pizza. Another place could serve pizza...just not be primarily a pizza place. Happens with hamburger places all the time. Stores do it as well...there's a reason you don't see REI and Sports Authority in the same shopping center, or Borders/B&N, or any of the others (which have lost a lot of their competitors in the past few years...Circuit City and Linens N Things to name a couple)

I would hold my breath for Chanel anyday.....

[mac_convert]

Bayside is looking at opening a coffee shop that is run by church volunteers and 100% of the proceeds would go to certain "causes" established for the month. The Bayside Cafe on the Granite Bay campus is wonderful and is already staffed with volunteers so they already have a model to follow. The cafe serves Starbucks drinks along with other drinks and goodies, sandwiches, etc. They'd like to incorporate a bookstore within the same facility. When I heard this idea at church this weekend I immediately thought of the Palladio. Eric is it something you could inquire about? It would be a wonderful environment for people to hang out in the community. I imagine they'd have live music nights like they do now at the campus cafe!

[caligirlz]

Bayside is looking at opening a coffee shop that is run by church volunteers and 100% of the proceeds would go to certain "causes" established for the month. The Bayside Cafe on the Granite Bay campus is wonderful and is already staffed with volunteers so they already have a model to follow. The cafe serves Starbucks drinks along with other drinks and goodies, sandwiches, etc. They'd like to incorporate a bookstore within the same facility. When I heard this idea at church this weekend I immediately thought of the Palladio. Eric is it something you could inquire about? It would be a wonderful environment for people to hang out in the community. I imagine they'd have live music nights like they do now at the campus cafe!

Is Bayside looking to open the coffee shop/bookstore in Folsom, off the "church campus" (since they are meeting at one of the schools)?
I think Palladio or Broadstone Marketplace since both are walking distance for me. I love coffee shop/bookstore combo's.

[ericm2031]

Refer to previous post. Cruisers Coffee is already coming. Centers typically don't have 2 coffee shops. My last plans show Peet's coming, but I'm guessing it has been replaced by Cruisers.

[caligirlz]

Cruisers Coffee is already coming. Centers typically don't have 2 coffee shops. My last plans show Peet's coming, but I'm guessing it has been replaced by Cruisers.

Cruisers Coffee? What's that? Never heard of it...there is no website that I can find. Where are they based? And how do they compare to Peets, Starbucks or our other local coffee houses?

Is mac_converts's idea a possibility for the Broadstone Marketplace? Do you handle that location also?

[ericm2031]

it's a possibility with the closure of It's a Grind. I do not know any information on Broadstone Marketplace however.