274 replies to this topic

[tessieca]

Time to start recruiting Chad.

[Robert Giacometti]

Well, I think that changes should be made. People that do put up illegal signs should be fined for each one.

Let's change the rules and have everyone play fair. YES, forget the past, but play fair from now on. Either everyone flood the city with thousands of signs, fifty or so on every corner, or have rules and play the game fair.

Cal,

I believe there are admistrative remedies for violations of the sign ordinance.

If any council member truly felt this was that important of an issue...they had 2 years since the last election, to put this on the agenda at a meeting so everyone would know where all council members stood on this issue. IMHO, I feel this was a manufactured issue. We all know that sometimes around election season some person seeking office, seems to introduce an issue that really isn't realtive to the major issues.

If we were to truly fine every illegal sign, then we would be fining businesses, garage sales, lost & found and everything else...I just don't think the council wants to be fining its citizens over these things, unless there is repeated long term abuse.

[camay2327]

Robert, I think that you know I am talking about abuse on a large scale like happened the morning of election. Not every small garage sign. The campaign people know who they are. This is the first year that I have been envolved so don't know about illegal signs from previous campaigns.

[Robert Giacometti]

Robert, I think that you know I am talking about abuse on a large scale like happened the morning of election. Not every small garage sign. The campaign people know who they are. This is the first year that I have been envolved so don't know about illegal signs from previous campaigns.

Cal,

I do understand you are refering to what happened on election day. I don't know how you draft an a city code specifically for this reason, I guess it could be done. If you have a sign ordinance, like we do, I don't feel its appropriate to selectively cite only certain types of violaters. I could see how people would use this ordinace as a weapon against others.

I'm also a firm believer in less laws....not more.

If everybody would just follow the "Golden Rule". The problem is we all feel that we, personally, or our candidate follows it....its always the other side who is breaking it. Of course the other side feels the same way!

IMHO, Steve's signs out on election morning wasn't the reason why he won the election with the most votes, AGAIN. He has worked hard, tried to build consensus and generally treats others with more courtesy and respect than they give him. I can disagree with Steve and he recognizes its not personal, its simply we disagree on that particular issue.

The sign issue generally happens every election season and will probably continue. To me the real issue is when someone tries to present themselves as more righteous than others about this, when they did the same thing in the past. Its my belief, if someone is going to do that about something as trival as campaign signs, how can WE trust them with anything else they say?

[Steve Heard]

IMHO, Steve's signs out on election morning wasn't the reason why he won the election with the most votes, AGAIN. He has worked hard, tried to build consensus and generally treats others with more courtesy and respect than they give him. I can disagree with Steve and he recognizes its not personal, its simply we disagree on that particular issue.

Robert

You speak the truth. Steve is a good guy, works his tail off for the city, gives so much of himself in volunteering for countless appearances and charities, and then gets raked over the coals by detractors.

All the while, he keeps his head up, remains a gentleman, and does what he believes is right.

[camay2327]

I know Steve and have talked to him several times. You do not have to see eye to eye on everything.

Glad Steve, Andy and Kerri won.

I do wish the signs could have come down prior to Veterans Day though.

[Robert Giacometti]

Robert

You speak the truth. Steve is a good guy, works his tail off for the city, gives so much of himself in volunteering for countless appearances and charities, and then gets raked over the coals by detractors.

All the while, he keeps his head up, remains a gentleman, and does what he believes is right.

I have to admit I have been one of those in the past who was raking him over the coals.

My opinion changed dramatically, of Steve, when he acknowledged at the council meeting that YES, the city knew we weren't in compliance regarding the Affordable Housing issue and didn't correct it when we had the opportunities.

ALL of our council members work hard, it is a THANKLESS job ( IMHO, only the school districts trustees have a more thankless one )! Its actually been more thankless than it should be, primarily as a result of some behind the door personal politics going on and that CRAP has got to stop! 99.999% of the people here are not aware of it, but I feel the city is well on its way with Mr. Miller as City Manager.

Now is a golden opportunity for the city to move forward, if I see any of the past shenigans reoccuring I and others will make sure there is another election in 6 months.

[Redone]

I know Steve and have talked to him several times. You do not have to see eye to eye on everything.

Glad Steve, Andy and Kerri won.

Maybe everyone will be hugging around here like Bush and Pelosi were on Wed.

[tony]

Now if someone acknowledges a past error and pledges not to do it again...I can respect that and am willing to keep going forward. However when someone pretends they are better than someone else for not doing something....but the reality is they made the same claim in the past and were guilty of doing the same thing without acknowledging their error....it smells of hypocrisy, IMHO

Robert: You seem to be changing the subject. The issue is that the council member who has been on the council the longest, and has been mayor for several years, had dozens, if not hundreds of illegal signs go up the night before the election (too late to be taken down before people saw them on the way to vote). In addition to the ones at Riley and Blue Ravine, there were more than a dozen at Prairie City and Blue Ravine, and a bunch at Iron Point and Folsom Boulevard (many on state property). Who knows how many more there were. And other than a few illegal Lundgren signs, I didn't notice any other candidate's signs placed on public property. Placing signs illegally the night before the election is a blatant and clearly intentional flaunting of the city's sign ordinance.

My question is, how can you trust a leader who either can't control his own campaign team or allows them to blatantly ignore the law for their candidate's benefit on election eve? This isn't abobut making mistakes. How many campaigns do you have to run before you learnd the rules? They haven't changed.

If you don't think it has any affect on the election, them why would they bother putting the signs up? We all know that in a groowing city like Folsom, the vast majority of voters know very little about council candidates, and are unlikely to have ever met or even seen them. Clearly those who put up the illegal Miklos signs believed the old adage that the candidates with the most and biggest signs (and the most money) always win (thy did). Saying that the signs make no difference is like saying that the $10 Billion dollars the US auto companies spend on advertising every year has no impact on what cars people purchase (or even whether they purchase them at all, but that's another discussion). If not, then why would they trhrow away $10 Billioin per year on it?

The signs had an affect on me, only probably not the desired one.

[camay2327]

Tony, you said it a lot better than I could have.


"Robert: You seem to be changing the subject. The issue is that the council member who has been on the council the longest, and has been mayor for several years, had dozens, if not hundreds of illegal signs go up the night before the election (too late to be taken down before people saw them on the way to vote)."

They were on Oak at Iron Point too and many many other places.

If it takes going to the city council and bringing it up during the 3 minutes I have to talk, I will. It only takes one city council person to put it on the agenda.

Thanks.


Cal

[tony]

Just listened to the city council meeting. In his closing comments, Mr. Miklos suggested that the signs on public property were moved there from legitimate locations by supporters of another unnamed candidate -- a conspiracy to besmirch his campaign.

Hmmmmmmmm. Pretty strong charges.

If that was, indeed, the case, then that's doubly illegal (stealing signs and placing them on public property, and probably in violation of some federal election laws as well). It's also an awful lot of signs to remove and relocate in one night. One would think that maybe someone would have seen the perpetraotrs taking down signs. I wonder if anyone's investigating?

[Robert Giacometti]

Robert: You seem to be changing the subject. The issue is that the council member who has been on the council the longest, and has been mayor for several years, had dozens, if not hundreds of illegal signs go up the night before the election (too late to be taken down before people saw them on the way to vote). In addition to the ones at Riley and Blue Ravine, there were more than a dozen at Prairie City and Blue Ravine, and a bunch at Iron Point and Folsom Boulevard (many on state property). Who knows how many more there were. And other than a few illegal Lundgren signs, I didn't notice any other candidate's signs placed on public property. Placing signs illegally the night before the election is a blatant and clearly intentional flaunting of the city's sign ordinance.

My question is, how can you trust a leader who either can't control his own campaign team or allows them to blatantly ignore the law for their candidate's benefit on election eve? This isn't abobut making mistakes. How many campaigns do you have to run before you learnd the rules? They haven't changed.

If you don't think it has any affect on the election, them why would they bother putting the signs up? We all know that in a groowing city like Folsom, the vast majority of voters know very little about council candidates, and are unlikely to have ever met or even seen them. Clearly those who put up the illegal Miklos signs believed the old adage that the candidates with the most and biggest signs (and the most money) always win (thy did). Saying that the signs make no difference is like saying that the $10 Billion dollars the US auto companies spend on advertising every year has no impact on what cars people purchase (or even whether they purchase them at all, but that's another discussion). If not, then why would they trhrow away $10 Billioin per year on it?

The signs had an affect on me, only probably not the desired one.

Tony, I agree with you 100%. That is why I keep asking others the same thing....4 years ago there were illegal signs ALL over the place, in the morning prior to the election ( they were a lot different color than this years) and I don't recall anyone claiming their signs were deliberately moved by another campaign team.

So maybe you can answer your own questions?

I guess having been through many of these campaigns, I have learned a few things. So when somebody is making righteous claims that you know aren't true...take pictures..keep newspaper clippings....it helps your memeory and you never know when somebody might need to be reminded of the past!

Listening to someone try to portray themselves as being holier than others on an issue, when they haven't been, IMHO, would be the same as Ed Kennedy speaking on the dangers of drunk driving or Mark Foley talk about the need to protect the pages on capital hill....they all smell of hypocrisy!

I truly hope everybody recognizes the election is OVER! We don't have to like the results, but it is over. The divisive politics that have been manufactured needs to end so we can move forward!

[zach5]

Just listened to the city council meeting. In his closing comments, Mr. Miklos suggested that the signs on public property were moved there from legitimate locations by supporters of another unnamed candidate -- a conspiracy to besmirch his campaign.

Hmmmmmmmm. Pretty strong charges.

If that was, indeed, the case, then that's doubly illegal (stealing signs and placing them on public property, and probably in violation of some federal election laws as well). It's also an awful lot of signs to remove and relocate in one night. One would think that maybe someone would have seen the perpetraotrs taking down signs. I wonder if anyone's investigating?

Yes Quite. As I saw the night before the people putting out those signs. I saw them out by walgreens and at the broadstone signs. I think it is quite a stretch to say someone stole all those signs and relocated them.

[mylo]

Yes Quite. As I saw the night before the people putting out those signs. I saw them out by walgreens and at the broadstone signs. I think it is quite a stretch to say someone stole all those signs and relocated them.

Mafia! Mobsters are forging the signs, not stealing them, and posting fake signs in mass smear campaigns around the country!

[Buford T Justice]

Just listened to the city council meeting. In his closing comments, Mr. Miklos suggested that the signs on public property were moved there from legitimate locations by supporters of another unnamed candidate -- a conspiracy to besmirch his campaign.

Hmmmmmmmm. Pretty strong charges.

If that was, indeed, the case, then that's doubly illegal (stealing signs and placing them on public property, and probably in violation of some federal election laws as well). It's also an awful lot of signs to remove and relocate in one night. One would think that maybe someone would have seen the perpetraotrs taking down signs. I wonder if anyone's investigating?

thats funny he said that - those conspiracy people also would have had to print and manufacture all those new additional signs for that many to suddenly appear - unless Miklos had signs up in places that nobody ever saw until the evil perps moved them to the illegal locations - shame on them for printing up and transplanting all his signs like that - I completely believe him.

Now I'm off to go buy the Golden Gate bridge, have a great day!