627 replies to this topic

[TM70]

General Fund ENDING BALANCE 101 (listen up, TM70, even teachers can learn):

Yeah I'm listening, like $73,838 with a 5.25% increase is $80,231.

Nice...

[TM70]

Great post, Tessieca. It did seem that 12th out of 12 was thrown out there with no substantiation. Comparing FCUSD's last year salaries with the current salaries of other districts without taking into account the 5.25% increase the union has rejected is ludicrous.

How do things line up for those teachers who are not in the top rank - say entry level and a teacher at 10 years? Would they still fall above the median rates?

You DON"T know what you are talking about. At this point, there in only ONE salary schedule. Go to FCUSD.org and you will find it. That's it, that's all we have...I have not seen any increase, so why compare some trumped up increase as fact. No one has accepted it!

Why don't you ask some more leading questions for the school board president and then some of the others can jump in and say, "Good Post..." Whatever...

[TM70]

Great information. Thanks for injecting some demonstrable facts into the emotionally charged discussion.

Ah, you beat me too it...what about another leading question?

[TM70]

At 3 years and BA+45 units (where majority of new teachers enter the schedule), FCUSD ranks 4 if we add 5.25% to the scale. That's $43,517 per year. If we add in benefits, not so good at that level (#10 of 12). At year 10 with BA+75 units (about mid salary schedule), FCUSD is #3 at $64,748. Adding benefits drops us to just below midpoint at #8.

These numbers consider the 5.25% addition, 9 districts after resolving negotiations, and 2 districts' offers (as EGUSD and Sac City haven't settled yet -- Sac City is offering about 2.75%, or up to 5.25% if benefits are reduced).

By your own admonition TODAY. None of these numbers are correct. Please look at what your own superintendent has sent out to the masses.

I don't know what numbers you are using, but they are wrong. I'm going off the DISTRICT numbers. Not some jumble of numbers seen in a certain way.

Salary - bottom
medical - bottom

Add them, subtract them, move them around. Whatever...

At this point, I could care less about my credibility. If you don't like it bash me, if you doubt me, then check it out for yourself, don't just blindly follow either side. Go see for yourself...

[TM70]

The superintendent has just put out a salary comparison schedule. Instead of adding the full 5.25% into salary, he assumes part in salary and part in benefits compensation. That actually puts the district at #4 in salary at 3 years, and #3 at both mid level and top level. It assumes $100 per month is being used for benefits instead of salaries. My numbers above applied the full 5.25% to salary.

If the raise were applied that way, the benefits+salary ranking would be #10, #8, and #6, respectively.

One would assume that's certainly no reason to strike. This district has never been the top salary payor in the area, partly because the district doesn't get as much money per student as many surrounding districts. There are tons of other reasons that people like to work here, and our applications have not slowed.

This is backpedaling!!! Why is he manipulating the numbers all over the place? Why not just let them stand for themselves. People, people, people...this IS what we are dealing with, the district is throwing out numbers in an effort to confuse.

The teacher's numbers are easy...

Take a salary, add the benefits and compare. That's the bottom line. It's simple. All of this other stuff is just meant to wear the teachers down so they settle. These new numbers are a response to last nights board meeting. The parent support is very passionate and I thank all of you for coming out and speaking to the board. Why else would the superintendent come out with page upon page of "new" info.

Just read the above quoted post. Back, back, back, gone!!!!

[SandPebble]

Wow. Both comments harsh especially from a school board member or president. I am surprised you would not be the better person and not be moved to be so personal in your comments about and to teachers, surprising as you are a parent too. I think it can be a conversation without all the attacks.

I cannot and do not expect teachers to know how to read a budget. They are paid for their expertise, which is teaching a certain subject matter (most of which is not budgeting).

General Fund ENDING BALANCE 101 (listen up, TM70, even teachers can learn):

[39 degrees]

Wow. Both comments harsh especially from a school board member or president. I am surprised you would not be the better person and not be moved to be so personal in your comments about and to teachers, surprising as you are a parent too. I think it can be a conversation without all the attacks.

Wow is right. I went to the protest today and although there were only about 75 people there, I was happy to hear some very positive words about the teachers. Don't let one teachers "passion"??? get in the way.

[tessieca]

I grow weary . . . sigh. There are no hidden funds. Thus the long explanation. It was an honest statement about not expecting teachers to understand a budget. Ten years ago I didn't know what ADA meant other than with regard to Americans with disabilities. It's a unique system and very few people have taken the time to understand it. No condescension intended.

Sigh, again, since there is no agreement, how a raise is applied to a salary schedule is speculative. The district used samples based on a reasonable scenario. The teachers are using other districts' settled rates and comparing our 2005-06 salaries to that. That is not a comparison. If you want the scenarios that were actually put out by the district, they are supposed to be posted on the website by Tuesday. See www.fcusd.org.

TM70 must be one of the less than 35% who didn't already receive an increase between 3-13%. Yes, that's right folks, some teachers already received as much as 13%. Any other amounts will be added on top of that.

Relax, let the process play out. If everyone is ready to stand behind their facts and statistics, then there should be no fear of the neutral mediation process. 70 parents out of nearly 40,000 is not too big a crowd. I also heard that several teachers were driving back and forth on their lunch breaks (presumably) honking. Psst, the lime green shirts give you away.

[Robert Giacometti]

TM70, Please reread what I wrote. I never said anything about what the teachers are doing now is hurting the children. What I said was IF, indeed what the District is claiming is true that giving the teachers additional money above what they proposed will result in a loss or reduction of programs then THAT will hurt children.

I think you provided us ( me) with some information about salaries that I found beneficial. Please confirm that the salary chart you provided the link to, for 2005/2006 are the same salaries for 2006/2007?

Maybe Tessieca can also confirm this or provide us (me) with information she feels is correct?

If I put myself in the teachers shoes and indeed what you are claiming is true that FCUSD's top tier is the lowest among the 12, then I can understand your concern. I don't understand how your retirement pay is calculated, but I suspect that its probabaly tied into salary, therefore if you are earning less in later years, you will get less in retirement than others working at another district that pays more. Again, if I was a teacher I could see how that would be a concern to me.

Comparing just salaries & benefits is just part of the process that needs to be considered. I think we need to look at both ends of the equation, both expenses and revenue. Its my limited understanding that there are a variety of different funding sources and each district gets funding from some of these depending on different factors.

There has to be some spread sheet out there that shows total funding for each district, number of students, and expenses ( including benefits) for administration, teachers and non teachers positions, other expenses and reserves. I could see where teachers at one district could be lower paid than others yet because of funding differences actually be a higher percentage of total expenses compared to teachers at another district where salaries are higher.

In a scenario I described, I could see how teachers would be upset they were falling behind in salaries, yet could undertsand the districts position they couldn't increase teachers cost as a percentage as it would require making cuts in other programs to pay for this increase.

This information would be very helpful to me, but I don't feel its the teachers responsiblity to provide it.

[TM70]

I grow weary . . . sigh. There are no hidden funds. Thus the long explanation. It was an honest statement about not expecting teachers to understand a budget. Ten years ago I didn't know what ADA meant other than with regard to Americans with disabilities. It's a unique system and very few people have taken the time to understand it. No condescension intended.

Sigh, again, since there is no agreement, how a raise is applied to a salary schedule is speculative. The district used samples based on a reasonable scenario. The teachers are using other districts' settled rates and comparing our 2005-06 salaries to that. That is not a comparison. If you want the scenarios that were actually put out by the district, they are supposed to be posted on the website by Tuesday. See www.fcusd.org.

TM70 must be one of the less than 35% who didn't already receive an increase between 3-13%. Yes, that's right folks, some teachers already received as much as 13%. Any other amounts will be added on top of that.

Relax, let the process play out. If everyone is ready to stand behind their facts and statistics, then there should be no fear of the neutral mediation process.

Not going to address the $80K??? I wouldn't either...

Whether I got a "raise" because I moved across the pay scale for enhancing my standing in the district by continuing to take coursework is irrelevant. Saying that teachers are getting a "raise" by moving across the pay scale is backhanded. Teachers work for the units and the district and teachers have negotiated that salary scale in the past. Now the district is using that to enhance their position that they are giving us a raise already. I'm sorry, but that is low down. Try doing THAT in the classroom and parents will come down on you like a load of bricks. I wouldn't even try it. It's dishonest and disingenuous.

It's easy now to relax. We are at impasse. Just like CSEA(the office staffs, custodians, etc...) They haven't reached an agreement with the new superintendent either.

70 parents out of nearly 40,000 is not too big a crowd. I also heard that several teachers were driving back and forth on their lunch breaks (presumably) honking. Psst, the lime green shirts give you away.

I want to again thank any and all people who have supported us. 75 or 40,000. Obviously, not everyone can/will show up and support the teachers or district. Basically, you just put down 75 concerned parents. Maybe they will come to the next board meeting. I wouldn't want 75 different people with their kids coming down on me.

Thanks for coming out to support us!!!

[Parizienne]

And uh... what about the most experienced teachers at the highest levels of the step and column chart who did not get an increase at all? If you have topped out in units of education credit and years of experience, your pay this year is the same as last year, isn't it? There was no 3%-13% increase for those people. Please correct me if I am mistaken. I am only interested in imparting the facts. As I have said before, I am new, and I might not be totally in the loop on some of this stuff.

Someone asked where the 2006-07 pay scale is. This is what is being contested. There isn't a scale for the current year. Salaries are being calculated based upon the 05-06 salary schedule currently. Usually, when an agreement over a new contract is eventually reached, the difference in pay is retroactive, though.


Pari

[TM70]

TM70, Please reread what I wrote. I never said anything about what the teachers are doing now is hurting the children. What I said was IF, indeed what the District is claiming is true that giving the teachers additional money above what they proposed will result in a loss or reduction of programs then THAT will hurt children.

I think you provided us ( me) with some information about salaries that I found beneficial. Please confirm that the salary chart you provided the link to, for 2005/2006 are the same salaries for 2006/2007?

Maybe Tessieca can also confirm this or provide us (me) with information she feels is correct?

If I put myself in the teachers shoes and indeed what you are claiming is true that FCUSD's top tier is the lowest among the 12, then I can understand your concern. I don't understand how your retirement pay is calculated, but I suspect that its probabaly tied into salary, therefore if you are earning less in later years, you will get less in retirement than others working at another district that pays more. Again, if I was a teacher I could see how that would be a concern to me.

Comparing just salaries & benefits is just part of the process that needs to be considered. I think we need to look at both ends of the equation, both expenses and revenue. Its my limited understanding that there are a variety of different funding sources and each district gets funding from some of these depending on different factors.

There has to be some spread sheet out there that shows total funding for each district, number of students, and expenses ( including benefits) for administration, teachers and non teachers positions, other expenses and reserves. I could see where teachers at one district could be lower paid than others yet because of funding differences actually be a higher percentage of total expenses compared to teachers at another district where salaries are higher.

In a scenario I described, I could see how teachers would be upset they were falling behind in salaries, yet could undertsand the districts position they couldn't increase teachers cost as a percentage as it would require making cuts in other programs to pay for this increase.

This information would be very helpful to me, but I don't feel its the teachers responsiblity to provide it.

FLOOD CONTROL!!! You guys, I can type pretty fast, but now you are going to flood control me?

Robert...I have to say you are a cool customer. Here's the deal and I hope you go look for yourself. Go the the FCUSD website on Tuesday like the president says and look at the "new" salary schedule. Add $3,750 for medical/dental and there you go. Salary+benefits. Then go to any of the surrounding districts listed by FCUSD and compare. Easy... We are way the heck down there my friend. That's it...that's all...like it or not, support us or not, it makes no difference. When I started this thread, I thought I would throw out a line and see what I could catch. What I caught was a lot of attacks and sniping, so I sniped and attacked back. Call me crazy, even the president did it today and a few parents caught her. She tried to come back and explain it, but what's done is done. We're all human...I hope she doesn't do it again, she has a reputation to uphold. On this board...I do not...

FYI, the salary schedule on the website today 2/16/07 is the old 2005-2006. What she is not telling you is that we are still using that schedule. My paycheck and anyone else's in FCUSD is coming off THATt schedule. When they slap up the "new" schedule, we will NOT be getting that pay. That is for when a contract is settled upon if the district's offer is accepted. To post a TBA salary schedule at this point in the game is dishonest and disingenuous. We are NOT being paid those wages on the "new" salary schedule coming out this Tuesday. Please understand that. It is NOT a fair comparison. We are comparing what other teachers are making NOW, not last year, not next year, not AFTER they settle in another district, but NOW. When we settle a contract then we will compare with the "new" salary schedule. Simple as that...

I'm sorry I misunderstood you. I'm a little on edge these days. I don't really want to be in this position. I erased my posts because I wanted out, but I was encouraged by many people to get back in, so I came back...

Look, I get it. They say they don't have the money. Our president(FCEA) says they do. Again, not looking to be #1, top quartile, like the superintendent says is a pipe dream. I don't know what he was thinking when he said that. I bet he wishes he could take that one back. We used to be in the top 3 just a few years ago. What happened? Now we have slipped to the bottom.

Just be competitive and fair. I have kids too.

The district probably has a spreadsheet that they could disaggregate all of the information you want, but I doubt they think that you or I are capable of reading it.

[mylo]

Go the the FCUSD website on Tuesday like the president says and look at the "new" salary schedule. Add $3,750 for medical/dental and there you go. Salary+benefits.

Link to 05/06 FCUSD certified salary schedule: http://www.fcusd.org...cert0506sch.pdf

You say they're not going to post the new one this Tuesday?

From what I can tell from the negotiations PDF, it's this schedule, plus an additional $5 million

[TM70]

Link to 05/06 FCUSD certified salary schedule: http://www.fcusd.org...cert0506sch.pdf

You say they're not going to post the new one this Tuesday?

From what I can tell from the negotiations PDF, it's this schedule, plus an additional $5 million

Yes, they will be posting a "new" schedule this Tuesday, but it's pointless. Not sure where I said they were not. We are not using that schedule yet. We are using the '05-'06 schedule for paychecks right now. The "new" schedule is for comparison only. It may boost us somewhat. At least out of the cellar, but again, we are not using that schedule yet. When it goes up with their "new" figures we will NOT be using it. And here is another thing. There is not guarantee that they are going to update our salaries back to July of last year when the new schedule comes out(retro). That will all have to be "negotiated." And I use that term loosely as the district never actually "negotiated" once since they made their first offer. They tried to be like Carmax...here is the price you pay, take it or leave it. Problem is that there is a process to the negotiations. I honestly think the superintendent just thought he could waltz in here and throw his weight around. I think the school board and district negotiation teams know this, but they will never admit it. I wouldn't, you'd lose face like crazy...

Your $5 million includes all employees and that's fair. Trust me, last time we did this impasse thing we were lucky enough to have a few good people who could find where the district was squirreling away the money. Unfortunately we don't have the services of those people anymore and the district knows it. That's why the new superintendent is so confident. And besides the financial officer is a sharp cookie.

[TM70]

And uh... what about the most experienced teachers at the highest levels of the step and column chart who did not get an increase at all? If you have topped out in units of education credit and years of experience, your pay this year is the same as last year, isn't it? There was no 3%-13% increase for those people. Please correct me if I am mistaken. I am only interested in imparting the facts. As I have said before, I am new, and I might not be totally in the loop on some of this stuff.

Someone asked where the 2006-07 pay scale is. This is what is being contested. There isn't a scale for the current year. Salaries are being calculated based upon the 05-06 salary schedule currently. Usually, when an agreement over a new contract is eventually reached, the difference in pay is retroactive, though.
Pari

Hallelujah!!! A cry from the wilderness. YES, finally, you are correct! I didn't get a raise this year. 3%-13%??? Some of the low enders get "STEP" every year until year 12, then it's every 3 years up to year 21 and then that's it. Also, you have to continue to go to school to get across the pay scale. I'M NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT. I think it's perfectly fine. I zipped across the scale in just a few years and I continue to take classes. Yes, once you hit the top, that's it. You fight for any and all increases as it affects your retirement, which sticks with you for the rest of your life.

Don't count on that retro yet, the district still has a few cards up their sleeve. Just you wait. Some tough decisions still need to be made.