343 replies to this topic

[Steve Heard]

If someone was beating me this badly (noted below) to cause this kind of damage - I too would shoot the attacker if I had a gun on me.

"the Neighborhood Watch volunteer suffered a broken nose, swelling, two black eyes and cuts to the scalp."

Zimmerman was getting his arse kicked in a bad way.... nobody should ever have to put up with that - ever! This isn't a black vs white thing, if the attacker was white he would have deserved to been shot too - this is about violent people and what is necessary to stop their attacks.

A friend of mine in Seattle was assaulted in a similar manner and the attacker broke his face with one punch. He may have been killed if the attacker hit him one more time but fortunately he had a gun on him and he aimed it at the guy and told the guy he would shoot him if he made another move. Fortunately the attacker was smart enough to stop the attack, or my friend would have had a full right to shoot him.

How many times must a person be hit before they are allowed to defend themselves, using lethal force if necessary?????

I'm sorry if I'm coming off too strong on this but having a friend in the same situation, I can relate to the guy who had to defend himself more then I can relate to the attacker who got shot. I'm sorry also that I believe the attacker got what he deserved if indeed this is how things went down and so far the injuries to Zimmerman are proving he had no choice but to defend himself to save his own life.

If Zimmerman was, like your friend, just a guy walking down the street minding his own business and was viciously attacked by a robber of nutcase, I don't think anyone would object to his claim of self defense.

That's not what happened here. In this case, an armed adult followed a 17 year old who he was suspicious of because he was walking through his neighborhood wearing a hoodie. A confrontation took place, and we don't know how it started, and the kid ended up dead. That's a different case entirely, wouldn't you agree?

“The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog(sic) in an effort to dispel each party’s concern,” lead investigator Chris Serino swore in a March 13 statement. “There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter.”

That's why he's being charged with a crime.

Read more here: http://www.miamihera...l#storylink=cpy

I so wish President Obama would have stepped up when he had the opportunity and told EVERYONE to allow the investigation to go forward and that everyone needed to let the system work through the process. He could have said something to the effect that as long as he was President he was going to make sure justice was carried out in all cases for ALL AMERICANS!

He could have said something to add a personal touch to reach out to Trayvons parents, without implying anything about race.

Then he could have said something and made it very clear as long as he is President he will NOT tolerate any vigilante type justice and ALL those calling for such things are wrong! IMO, this is what leadership is all about!

I expect ALL of my elected leaders to do what is right and say what is right, when its appropriate!

I believe he did just that, but some people choose only to take one sentence out of the whole statement and twist it into meaning something it doesn't.

The incident too place at a press conference where Obama was introducing his pick as the new head of the International Monetary Fund.

A reporter asked, "Mr. President, may i ask you about this current case in florida, very controversial allegations of listenering racism within our society of the so-called stand your ground law and the justice in that. can you comment on the travon martin case , sir?

The President, "Well, i'm the head of the executive branch . and the attorney general reports to me. so i've got to be careful about my statements to make sure that we're not impairing any investigation that's taking place right now. but obviously, this is a tragedy.

i can only imagine what these parents are going through. and when i think about this boy, i think about my own kids. and you know, i think every parent in america should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this. and that everybody pulls together, federal, state and local, to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened. so i'm glad that not only is the justice department looking into it, i understand now that the governor of the state of florida has formed a task force to investigate what is taking place. to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen. and that means that we examine the laws and the context for what happened. as well as the specifics of the incident. but my main message is to the parents of trayvon martin. you know, if i had a son, he would look like trayvon. and, you know, i think they are right to expect that all of us as americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and that we're going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened. all right."

I don't see what was wrong with what he said, or why only one sentence of it is quoted and emailed around.

[Sonny]

I wonder if NSA will ever release the girlfriends phone conversation, you know they've got it.

[Robert Giacometti]

I don't see what was wrong with what he said, or why only one sentence of it is quoted and emailed around.

If any President talks about anything and says all the right things except for that one sentence where they call someone an appropriate slur, what gets talked about? Thats right, the one sentence! It comes with the territory of being President.

Lets be honest here Sharpton was speaking out loud questioning why the President hadn't commented about this yet, right before this question came up. In addition, I recall reading a story regarding one of the Presidents Aids indicating the President would be addressing this issue, BEFORE he made this comment. I can't find that story anymore. Typically President Obama doesn't take off topic questions at press conferences, yet this one got through? WHY was that allowed?

I don't have much hope you'll pull your head out of the sand and look at this with the same scrutiny you would if the President was white and said the same thing about a white child, given their supporters were questioning why the President hadn't said anything yet. IMO, that would be just as wrong as what President Obama said.

[Steve Heard]

I don't have much hope you'll pull your head out of the sand and look at this with the same scrutiny you would if the President was white and said the same thing about a white child, given their supporters were questioning why the President hadn't said anything yet. IMO, that would be just as wrong as what President Obama said.

Nor do I have any hope you'd do the same.

[The Average Joe]

While Zimmerman's actions up to the fight and shooting are foolish according to what we know, they are not a crime. Following someone in public, even confronting them as to what they are doing...nothing illegal about that. The crime occurred when the fighting began. That crime may have been assault by either party, we don't know. The escalation of force may or may not have been justified, depending on the circumstances of that fight.
2nd degree murder? No way a jury of unbiased adults convicts unless there is a stack of evidence that Zimmerman instigated the actual fight. There is certainly reasonable doubt.

[Robert Giacometti]

Nor do I have any hope you'd do the same.

Can you give me an example where any other President said this before and we can resolve this?

[Steve Heard]

Can you give me an example where any other President said this before and we can resolve this?

Nope. I guess we'll just have to just disagree. I think the president answered a question honestly about a subject that was making national and international headlines, not because of Al Sharpton, but because a man's son left to go to the store and ended up shot and killed by one of his neighbors, and the police did not arrest him, and the parents wanted answers, and this country's had a history of treating the deaths of black citizens differently than those of whites, going back to the days when our president and congress would not even pass legislation to outlaw lynching, citing 'states rights'. With this history in mind, regardless of the crime rate, the hoodie, race relations or the fight, the parents and many others in the nation, black and white, wanted answers.

The police chief, without waiting for an investigation, declared there was no 'probable cause' for arrest and called the record of Zimmerman 'squeaky clean' despite his 2 felony arrests for assault, including one on a police officer.

These are some of the reasons reasonable (and unreasonable) people were upset and angered by this case.

Rick Santorum said, "“It’s a horrible case, and it’s chilling to hear what happened. And of course the fact that law enforcement didn’t immediately go after and prosecute this case is another chilling example of horrible decisions made by people in this process."

Mitt Romney said, Romney said: "What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy. There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity.”

These guys words weren't shortened or taken apart and turned into a political issue, but Obama's were. Seems like a double-standard.

[Steve Heard]

Speaking of disturbing, that was one of your most misguided posts, to say the least.

I can't think of many threads we've had on here about black people. This one, the Henry Gates issue, and the one where you claimed that your employees are justified in not wanting to serve black customers because we're combative, or something to that effect. I stand behind what I've said in both cases.

I'm not the self-appointed defender of black people, nor am I in denial that people who are black can commit crimes.

I've never said that Zimmerman was guilty of a crime, nor did I say he did anything becauae Trayvon was black. I gave my perspective on why there was outrage over the lack of investigation of the incident, and questioned why it is okay for Romney and Santorum to comment on it, but wrong for Obama.

If Trayvon committed an unprovoked attack on an innocent man, that innocent man should not be charged with a crime.

The problem is, despite all of the contradictory witness statements, evidence, and recommendations that the killer be arrested and charged, he was not, and the world could not understand why, but guesses were made that the assumption was that this was a criminal who attacked an innocent man, instead of a kid who was on his way home from the store and was confronted by a perhaps over-zealous armed adult.

I just assume innocence or guilt based on race.

Read into my posts whatever fits your beliefs.

[supermom]

We've had three years to get to know Mr. Obama and what he thinks and where he has taken this nation. And before he was elected, all one had to do was read his book, in his own words, saying what he believed. That book is called, "Dreams of My Father". Have you ever read it? Do you agree with all his beliefs? Further, those he says he admired were the very same people that hated this country and that committed crimes against. They had ideas that were counter to the Constitution. But I guess that's OK.

Have you no complaints about Obama at ALL? Or are you one of those that worship him, no matter where he takes this country? I've never heard you say one thing bad against him! Even I had my complaints over Bush!

Is it possible that you worded this message a bit strongly? A bit misguided. It almost sounds like you are calling the President a traitor. I have to say, I really hope that that is not the case.

I realize that people can get very passionate about politics, and their personal beliefs. And, I realize that there are many ways to accomplish the same goals, in many cases-and that many people will choose to agree to disagree on which ones are inappropriate.

I did not read the book. I have no way to imagine any attitudes, beliefs, or mislaid loyalties. Honestly, I am not sure how that has a relationship with the President stating that "if he had a son, he would look like Treyvon".

Are you going to now start a new rumor about the President actually being born a resident of Florida? Why all the angst?

[Steve Heard]

Clearly, I am not the only one who disagrees with you, about this situation.

And, you have already read many things into my posts in the past, as well as the posts of others, which you form your own opinions, which sounds very much like race based bias.
And there is proof of that right here on this thread.

The issue was NOT that a president should not make a statement about a current crime, but HOW and WHAT he says. It seems you want to confuse the issue here. Most on this board are more intelligent than to fall for that, Steve. So Trayvon was just a “Teenager”? Come on, you know that there are more factors than that here! Like the fact that little Trayvon was not so little!
And certainly, not so weak! Just a “teen”, really????

My belief is that presidents and other leaders should be held accountable for what they say that divides this country and causes further anger among the people. And many agree with me on that premise. But I guess it’s OK with you that now there are probably far more crimes because of race, than before Mr. Obama became president. Not to mention the class warfare he has inspired.

What Obama said was harmful and pandering to a group of people that he wants to gets votes from. Just as it was pandering for Obama to say he was for Gay marriage, when in the past he said he wasn’t decided on the matter. Very convenient now that he faces an election for a second term! Don’t you think most see through that? But funny how the liberal press played up a prank that young Mitt made way back when he was too young to think it unwise, but had no basis for how they painted it. Compared to Obama’s past, Mitt is clean as a whistle!

We’ve had three years to get to know Mr. Obama and what he thinks and where he has taken this nation. And before he was elected, all one had to do was read his book, in his own words, saying what he believed. That book is called, “Dreams of My Father". Have you ever read it? Do you agree with all his beliefs? Further, those he says he admired were the very same people that hated this country and that committed crimes against. They had ideas that were counter to the Constitution. But I guess that’s OK.

Have you no complaints about Obama at ALL? Or are you one of those that worship him, no matter where he takes this country? I've never heard you say one thing bad against him! Even I had my complaints over Bush!

Nor am I the only one who disagrees with you. I never called Trayvon Martin little or weak, and I've never heard anyone else say so either.

Those who seek to villify Trayvon are quick to point out that he was 5'11, and several claimed he out-weighed Zimmerman by 50lbs, when the coroner put his weight at 158lbs and police reports say that Zimmerman is 5'9 and weighs 170lb. So Zimmerman was 2 inches shorter and weighed 12lbs more. They further point out that he smoked pot within days of the altercation and had been suspended from school for it. That wasn't enought. They went so far as to take a picture of a black teenager either flipping off the camera or flashing gang signs, and both Michele Malkin and FOX news showed it to America, claiming it was Martin, only to later admit they'd been wrong.

Why? Is to justify the taking of his life?

George Zimmerman on the other hand, is a man who was arrested and charged twice with felony assault, bragged on his myspace page about getting away with both crimes, bragged about his buddies going to jail but not ratting him out for a crime they jointly committed, posted a rant about his disdain for Mexicans, called the cops an average of 3 times per month to report various perceived suspicious characters, followed Martin against the advice of the police and ended up in a confrontation which ended in Martin's death.

All I want is an honest investigation, but what the police did was claim it was a 'squeaky clean' citizen defending himself against an unprovoked attack.

Whether or not I have complaints about any of Obama's policies or deeds is irrelevant to this discussion. I think Obama was as right to voice his opinion about the case as was Romney and Santorum.

And yes, I have read 'Dreams of My Father'. Have you. It's not a book that asks the reader to believe what he believes. It's a book about how he became the man that he is.

[Steve Heard]

And there it is! Yes, I've read the book. And THAT is my point! It's how he became the man he is today!!!!

Thank you so much! Enough said.

I admire the man he is today, warts and all. You do not. Enough said indeed.