34 replies to this topic

[billsfan]

I live in the Parkway also and do not find the HOA rules to be stiffling or totally conforming. I have a wide variety of plants and trees that I maintain and cultivate in my backyard. I can hang Christmas decorations, American flags, etc.. during the holidays.

I find it very pleasant to drive down the street with few cars parked; no unsightly weeds, boats, cars in front yards; and clean/maintained common grounds. In fact, the Parkways preservations of Humbug Creek, open space, trails, and parks; is and should be a model for many communities.

I do find it annoying when people complain about HOA rules, when they are well documented. The Parkway's office is well reasonable in helping understand rules, deal with repairs, or with general questions. And lastly, please don't condem HOAs because of past experiences. I've heard of good one's and bad one's, usually you can find out before moving in by talking with neighbors.

[Gina99]

We live in the Watermark John Laing homes. I am pretty happy with the HOA rules and regulations although it was a real pain picking out our trees for the landscaping in our back yard and getting everything o.k'd. We can only plant annuals in the front yard (they take care of the mowing and landscaping and watering) and I have received 2 warning letters so far because my planters were on the bark next to the walkway out front. I had to move them onto the cement. Little things like that are an annoyance but I love the fact that RVs aren't blocking the roads, and other rules that make everything visually appealing-yes even the satellite dishes make a difference.

Regarding the condos- We looked at those just last week. I liked a couple of the larger floorplans and would definitely be interested if I had no children or even was single and rented to a roommate. I have no doubt they would be a great investment since the homes here have a waiting list and those in the next release have gone up *significantly* in price since we bought. I think people will buy the condos since it is so much harder to buy a house here now.

[Farley]

Can you exercise your First Amendment Right by placing a political campaign sign just during an election period on your front lawn without incurring a $50.00 per day fine from your HOA. The former HOA I lived in one could not.

It took a strong group of neighbors to petition the board and the management to recognize that in 1994 the Supreme Court stated political signs during an election could not be banned. So we won, but had a hard battle to get there.

[bishmasterb]

gina,

Since you just recently landscaped your backyard, let me pick your brain. Do you happen to know the rules on how large and how close to the fence trees can be planted? I'd like to put some fairly large trees in our backyard.

thanks
-bish

[Harsha]

"I do find it annoying when people complain about HOA rules, when they are well documented"

billsfan - so does anything written on a piece of paper make it right? I agree I signed it, but the only reason I did was to buy the home not because I agreed to everything it said. In fact I did not even read it (don't have time to read the million pages in fine print). i'm sure most people are like me.

I completely agree that not all HOA rules are negative, but small things like painting the dish are more of an annoyance (atleast for me). I talked with all my neighbours who have a dish and they feel the same. sometimes it feels like I had more freedom my previous apartment that I didn't own.

[bishmasterb]

harsha,

I'm with you. No one reads those things. I'm sure I wouldn't have bought the house if I did read it!

I do think that keeping my word is important though, and I'm simply trusting that there isn't anything in the CC&Rs that will be greatly unexpected (although some things will be annoying). I am also relying on the fact that my wife and I are pretty low key and aren't going to stir up any problems with our neighbors, live and let live basically; meaning that we're not going to give anyone a reason to complain about us.

[billsfan]

I'm basically like Bish in that our family isn't going to stir up any trouble with neighbors and pretty low key. But, yes, generally something written on a piece of paper that I agree to and sign obligates me to the contract. If I don't like the terms than I won't sign it. Like any house or purchase you make, it's important to research to understand the details. If you scanned through the HOA agreement and read the monthly meeting notes, you would understand what things are enforced.

After all, what are you paying your HOA fees for? It's not an insignificant amount and something people should clearly understand when moving into a HOA development. While painting a dish does seem like an annoyance, it is very consistent with other Parkway HOA rules. Once people area allowed to get away with violations, the HOAs enforcement looses it's credibility.

That being said, I think the HOA enforcement presence is low key, behind the scenes. If you do call them, they are very helpful on resolving things that are within their aithority. I for one believe that the Parkway is one of the best developments in Folsom because of many of the things that the HOA does to maintain the high quality of the development.

[Harsha]

I am not going to stir anything with my neighbours either (I don't see how painting my dish affects my neighbours, I talked with em they don't care), we're pretty low key too. I never implied anything to that regard, my point was maybe some of the HOA rules need to be revisited. This is our first home so we don't have any other HOA to compare with and it's all new to us.

Coming to the argument of agreeing everything you sign too, I disagree. Yes you are obligated to everything you sign too not necessarily agree with them. Thats why I'll paint my dish. I would be stupid to let an opppurtunity to buy a home in a market like Folsom slip through because I don't agree with a few minor rules of the HOA.

ok, what about putting political signs in front yards, can we do that in parkway? if we cannot wouldn't that be an infraction of personal freedom?
I don't have any plans to put em, but I definitley think people should be allowed to if they want.

I'm not trying to stir problems, I'm just trying to understand other resident's views on these issues.

[bishmasterb]

QUOTE (Harsha @ Jul 10 2004, 11:39 PM)

ok, what about putting political signs in front yards, can we do that in parkway? if we cannot wouldn't that be an infraction of personal freedom? I don't have any plans to put em, but I definitley think people should be allowed to if they want. I'm not trying to stir problems, I'm just trying to understand other resident's views on these issues.

harsha,

All contracts that you sign are by definition an "infraction" or limitation of your personal freedom. That is the essence of what a contract is. You give up something in exchange for something else.

In repect to an HOA, you give up certain freedoms (the freedom to paint your house any color you want for example) in return for living in a neighborhood that has a high level of conformity and is maintained well.

Specifically regarding signs, someone else had mentioned that the courts had ruled that HOAs cannot limit your freedom to post a political sign during an election year. I don't know if that's true or not, if it is, obviously (for better or worse) the courts have more authority than the HOA.

-bish

[Harsha]

Bish,

Like I said earlier I don't think HOAs are bad overall, I agree they help maintain conformity. I can understand why painting your house bright red or orange is not allowed:)

My problem is HOAs slip some more silly rules in because nobody is going to question em. It's not free market more like a monopoly. I don't have an option of disagreeing, as the cost is too high (not buy a house here). If there was a developement very similar to parkway but had better HOA rules I'm sure parkway HOA rules will be adjusted also as it'll start affecting their bottomline (freemarket) and the consumer benfits but now it's more like the ATT of the 80s.

I agree that the HOA has more pros than cons (from my little exprience thats what I think). But that doesn't mean they can't work on some of the rules that residents have issues with. Here's a thought, why can't they be more like a democracy and ask all the residents to vote once every year or two on the rules that we want to keep? After all we pay for the HOA, we keep it running and it's for us..

[Farley]

The management of Woodbridge, Vierra Moore, always told us it was next to impossible to change the CC&R's without hiring lawyers, etc. Probably just a control tactic.

Even after I had the Folsom Fire Dept out and they were informed the street was not wide enough for a fire lane ( it failed by about 15 ft.), they still would not paint the curbside red. It would have meant that for one block there was no parking on either side. Most streets in there one can only park on one side of the streets. The Folsom Fire Dept. did not even have enough clout to make management do something.

[bishmasterb]

QUOTE (Harsha @ Jul 11 2004, 10:45 AM)

Bish, Like I said earlier I don't think HOAs are bad overall, I agree they help maintain conformity. I can understand why painting your house bright red or orange is not allowed:) My problem is HOAs slip some more silly rules in because nobody is going to question em. It's not free market more like a monopoly. I don't have an option of disagreeing, as the cost is too high (not buy a house here). If there was a developement very similar to parkway but had better HOA rules I'm sure parkway HOA rules will be adjusted also as it'll start affecting their bottomline (freemarket) and the consumer benfits but now it's more like the ATT of the 80s. I agree that the HOA has more pros than cons (from my little exprience thats what I think). But that doesn't mean they can't work on some of the rules that residents have issues with. Here's a thought, why can't they be more like a democracy and ask all the residents to vote once every year or two on the rules that we want to keep? After all we pay for the HOA, we keep it running and it's for us..

harsha,

I hear what you're saying, and agree with your motivation for saying it. You simply want to live in your house, and not be bothered with mundane, silly restrictions. Me too.

As far as the free market system of HOAs goes, it's difficult to say how much government regulation/redtape is involved in establishing the HOAs themselves as they are tied up in a complex web of government/developer/management relationships in their formation.

I will be the first to agree that the government should stay out of housing development entirely, and let developers and homeowners decide what's best.

Monopolies can, and often do, exist in a free market, and they are usually GOOD for consumers because prices have to be driven down very low to support them (eg keeping competition out of a market is expensive). Standard Oil and Microsoft are good examples. Monopolies usually only become BAD for consumers when the government gets involved through price/wage controls, breakups, etc., or when government regulations create the possibility of a monopoly by protecting or excluding certain businesses.

[Gina99]

QUOTE (bishmasterb @ Jul 10 2004, 05:15 PM)

gina, Since you just recently landscaped your backyard, let me pick your brain. Do you happen to know the rules on how large and how close to the fence trees can be planted? I'd like to put some fairly large trees in our backyard. thanks -bish

Bish,

Trees are supposed to be 5 feet from the fence, however our landscaper planted them about 3 feet from the fence and they have a lot of business in the Parkways and weren't concerned. Regarding the size, I am not sure but we planted some such as pines that will grow pretty large that were o.k.'d by the HOA. My husband seems to think that they discourage trees over 30 feet. Good luck getting your list of trees o.k'd-it was a real time consuming pain in the behind for us.

Gina

[Farley]

I find it hard to believe your backyards are regulated too. I lived for 8 yrs. in what I throught was a terribly restrictive HOA, but even they had no say over one's back yard. It was purely up to the homeowner.

[billsfan]

I think the landscaping guidelines for the Parkway are very reasonable. They give you a list of many plants and trees that are acceptable and allow you to ask about others. (Bish - the HOA or clubhouse can give you a list of acceptable trees and plants). They are mainly trying to avoid the large trees that have roots sytems that will destroy yours and neighbors yards, diseases, along with other various well known plant and tree problems.

Farley - what happens if your neighbor plants a tree next to yours that has all kinds of droppings or roots that destroy your yard or fence? I've heard of various things like this happening with neighbors. What about a 10 foot high structure that blocks your view of anything? While you may not have those problems and maybe have chosen a lot that backs up on green space, with the closeness of houses in many subdivisions, these type of guidelines are helpful in securing a beautiful development.

Plase don't compare the Parkway's HOA with others you may have had problems with. Parker Development also manages Serrano in El Dorado Hills, and both developments have great reputations. Did you know that the Parkway has more than 200 acres of open space?