51 replies to this topic

[luvmyboyz]

I just noticed the sign yesterday too! I sat there forever, then I noticed someone pull up behind me - he was getting so frustrated at me for NOT turning right on a red light. I got a little scared wondering if he was going to start a road rage feud!

As I can see why the sign is there, maybe they should add a sign with days/hours: "No right turn, M-F, 8:00am-5:00pm!

[Darth Lefty]

Maybe it should say "No right turn until we fix the signal"

[Thor2074]

Maybe it should say "No right turn until we fix the signal"

That is so freaking hillarious!!!!!

[john]

As I can see why the sign is there, maybe they should add a sign with days/hours: "No right turn, M-F, 8:00am-5:00pm!

That would be unacceptable. There are really only 2 times of the day it's needed - just before 8 am and just after 3. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say "when pedestrians are present", but 95% of the time during the hours of 8-5, there's no need as nobody is crossing tht street.

[Dave Burrell]

Well, guess what? No one from the city has agreed to enforce with signs or permits to stop the parking in the neighborhood by the high school....The person in charge said it was going to happen; well of course, another school year and nothing is done...However, I'm glad the city has the audacity to put up a No Turn on Red sign and have the traffic control for it not working...HOW DO YOU SAY IDIOTIC in Folsom language???
OMG, the CITY doesn't care about the affected neighborhood at all...There was so much toilet paper left on Grover to cover a few houses the other day....PLEASE EVERYONE email to complain about the students parking off-campus and the stupid new sign that doesn't work......

Did you go to any traffic safety committee meetings or email Mark?

[Dave Burrell]

That would be unacceptable. There are really only 2 times of the day it's needed - just before 8 am and just after 3. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say "when pedestrians are present", but 95% of the time during the hours of 8-5, there's no need as nobody is crossing tht street.

I agree, mark the signs warning for pedestrians, not hours

[Darth Lefty]

Whatever happened to crossing guards, anyways?

[Andrea V]

Whatever happened to crossing guards, anyways?

Are you volunteering?

I know that Natoma Station Elementary is looking for Volunteer Crossing Guards!

[Darthvader]

Whatever happened to crossing guards, anyways?

Something about being seen around town in an orange vest maybe?

[Silverado]

Here's the official response from Mr. Rackovan.

We are working on a solution to that – we have a traffic signal contractor that’s working on another project and he’ll be getting us a price to install some additional detection at that location. Unfortunately because of the nature of the pedestrian signal phasing (all ped movements come on at the same time), and because this phasing exists at all times, we cannot place a ‘when students present’ condition on the signs. We should have the additional detection in place shortly and that should alleviate the problem.

[nlove4ever]

I just noticed the sign yesterday too! I sat there forever, then I noticed someone pull up behind me - he was getting so frustrated at me for NOT turning right on a red light. I got a little scared wondering if he was going to start a road rage feud!

As I can see why the sign is there, maybe they should add a sign with days/hours: "No right turn, M-F, 8:00am-5:00pm!

I agree but needs to say on red still. It is a very dangerous intersection for the kids crossing but doesnt need to be enforced on the weekends or after school hours. I drop my Son of there every morning and I cringe when the lights turn green and the kids start crossing because of the idiots that are in such a rush to make a turn. Glad to hear that their lights now turn green to cross but the traffic light stays red.

[camay2327]

I received this reply this morning.


From: "Mark Rackovan" <mrackovan@folsom.ca.us>

To: camay2327

Calvin,

The pedestrian signal phasing was changed at Iron Point/Grover because
of the sheer volume of students crossing the intersection during pick up
and drop off periods; students would often spill out onto the street or
continue crossing even when the ped signal had expired. We had
initially tried to work with the school to improve their on-campus
circulation so that the parents would drop off the kids on campus,
thereby reducing the number of kids crossing the intersection; that
effort went nowhere. The next best solution was to create a 'pedestrian
scramble' phase, in which all ped movements come on at the same time,
allowing the kids to cross multiple legs of the intersection without
having to wait to cross the next leg.

There are two unfortunate consequences of this plan. The first is that
the scramble phase is in effect at all times - whether children are
present or not - there is no feasible way of having one type of
pedestrian phase when kids are present and another when they are not.
The second consequence is that vehicle movements can be permitted during
this phase, because all pedestrian movements are active at the same time
- this is why the No Right On Red is mandatory.

We will be adding some more vehicle detection in the right turn lanes,
which will help the signal to identify the presence of right turning
vehicles and get them a green traffic signal at the next opportunity -
this will eliminate the long wait that you and others have experienced.


Our intent is to improve pedestrian safety during peak pedestrian times
at the high school. We will make every effort to minimize vehicle
delay, but not at the expense of pedestrian safety at this location.

We will also be engaging the new school administration in discussions
about some simple on-campus circulation and parking improvements -
hopefully we'll have better results than we've had with the past two
principals.

If you or anyone else has any more questions or comments, please let me
know.

Thank you,
Mark Rackovan

[Bill Z]

I received this reply this morning.
From: "Mark Rackovan" <mrackovan@folsom.ca.us>

To: camay2327

Calvin,

The pedestrian signal phasing was changed at Iron Point/Grover because
of the sheer volume of students crossing the intersection during pick up
and drop off periods; students would often spill out onto the street or
continue crossing even when the ped signal had expired. We had
initially tried to work with the school to improve their on-campus
circulation so that the parents would drop off the kids on campus,
thereby reducing the number of kids crossing the intersection; that
effort went nowhere. The next best solution was to create a 'pedestrian
scramble' phase, in which all ped movements come on at the same time,
allowing the kids to cross multiple legs of the intersection without
having to wait to cross the next leg.

There are two unfortunate consequences of this plan. The first is that
the scramble phase is in effect at all times - whether children are
present or not - there is no feasible way of having one type of
pedestrian phase when kids are present and another when they are not.
The second consequence is that vehicle movements can be permitted during
this phase, because all pedestrian movements are active at the same time
- this is why the No Right On Red is mandatory.

We will be adding some more vehicle detection in the right turn lanes,
which will help the signal to identify the presence of right turning
vehicles and get them a green traffic signal at the next opportunity -
this will eliminate the long wait that you and others have experienced.
Our intent is to improve pedestrian safety during peak pedestrian times
at the high school. We will make every effort to minimize vehicle
delay, but not at the expense of pedestrian safety at this location.

We will also be engaging the new school administration in discussions
about some simple on-campus circulation and parking improvements -
hopefully we'll have better results than we've had with the past two
principals.

If you or anyone else has any more questions or comments, please let me
know.

Thank you,
Mark Rackovan

Wow, sounds like they need a smarter controller. One that allows them to select the time of day and day of the week that the pedestrian crossing works in a stop all traffic mode, or maybe a No Turn on Red light sign that only lights when the Ped crossing mode is activated.

Bottom line, technology is capable of making a solution, but I would venture to guess, funding for a technical solution isn't on the books right now.

[Darthvader]

Wow, sounds like they need a smarter controller. One that allows them to select the time of day and day of the week that the pedestrian crossing works in a stop all traffic mode, or maybe a No Turn on Red light sign that only lights when the Ped crossing mode is activated.

Bottom line, technology is capable of making a solution, but I would venture to guess, funding for a technical solution isn't on the books right now.

If there is a real safety issue then they are taking the safe route by making it a single function solution. If the controller loses programming or fails then all heck could break loose and kids would be getting run over at an outstanding rate.

[camay2327]

My latest...

To: Mark Rackovan
Subject: RE: No right turn on RED at Grover and Iron Point Road

Mark, thanks for the reply. My question is can't you put hours on the
side, i.e., no right turn on red just during school hours?

Cal

---


From: "Mark Rackovan" <mrackovan@folsom.ca.us>

To: camay2327@yahoo.com

Cal,

I will look into it; I can certainly understand how frustrating it would
be to wait to make a right turn if no pedestrians are present. One
potential problem is that this pedestrian-only phase is in effect at all
times, not just during school hours. We don't want to create a
situation where a motorist that is unfamiliar with the intersection
ignores the turn restriction while a pedestrian is legally crossing
during non-school periods. I'll research this and try to find a safe
and legal solution if one is available.

Mark Rackovan