99 replies to this topic

[Agent_007]

Why does Sacramento county need 13 different school districts... seems to me that a large amount of "economy of scale" could be had by simply consolidating 13 seperate districts into one. You wouldn't need to to pay 12 full time adminstrators or their staffs (you'd only need 1), and could probably consolidate a lot of the other ancillary support functions and staff as well. I'm just spit-balling here, but I'd bet the savings would be measured in the millions of dollars...

YMMV,

/dusty

See NYC Board of Education. Bigger IS NOT always better. Corruption, skimming, nepotism, theft, waste and unsubstantiated expenses are what you get whe the districts become too large.

Note, smaller companies are more nimble than larger ones. I'd build smaller, more efficient school systems every day than have one large, obese, wasteful district.

A government for the people and by the people. That's what I want.

[Dustyzz]

See NYC Board of Education. Bigger IS NOT always better. Corruption, skimming, nepotism, theft, waste and unsubstantiated expenses are what you get whe the districts become too large.

Note, smaller companies are more nimble than larger ones. I'd build smaller, more efficient school systems every day than have one large, obese, wasteful district.

A government for the people and by the people. That's what I want.

First off, being bigger does not necessarily equal being wasteful or corrupt... correlation is not causation. In my book, paying fewer unnecessary bureaucrats would be a GREAT way to see major savings in regards to our local schools. In essence consolidating school districts would create a much smaller bureacracy, encumbered by substantaily less red tape, hence making education in Sacramento county "more nimble" and efficient.... bascially it would simply be removing an unecessary layer of "management" from the educational org chart. Think of it as "downsizing" ( or right sizing) an over-bloated, out of control, grossly wasteful governmental entity. I would venture to guess that the only people that would be against something like this would be the bureacrats in danger of losing their jobs... so who signs your paycheck?

/dusty

[Bill Z]

See NYC Board of Education. Bigger IS NOT always better. Corruption, skimming, nepotism, theft, waste and unsubstantiated expenses are what you get whe the districts become too large.

Note, smaller companies are more nimble than larger ones. I'd build smaller, more efficient school systems every day than have one large, obese, wasteful district.

A government for the people and by the people. That's what I want.

Ditto, for some things economy of scale makes waste not haste.

I'm all for pushing as much government control down to the lowest possible level as possible.
That way local control can properly address local concerns.

[Agent_007]

First off, being bigger does not necessarily equal being wasteful or corrupt... correlation is not causation. In my book, paying fewer unnecessary bureaucrats would be a GREAT way to see major savings in regards to our local schools. In essence consolidating school districts would create a much smaller bureacracy, encumbered by substantaily less red tape, hence making education in Sacramento county "more nimble" and efficient.... bascially it would simply be removing an unecessary layer of "management" from the educational org chart. Think of it as "downsizing" ( or right sizing) an over-bloated, out of control, grossly wasteful governmental entity. I would venture to guess that the only people that would be against something like this would be the bureacrats in danger of losing their jobs... so who signs your paycheck?

/dusty

i sign my own check. thanks for askin. who signs yours?

[Robert Giacometti]

Ditto, for some things economy of scale makes waste not haste.

I'm all for pushing as much government control down to the lowest possible level as possible.
That way local control can properly address local concerns.

Unfortunately, people get sentimental and support touchy feel good measures that mandate programs that add significant costs to agencies without any concept of how the programs are going to get paid.

Smaller districts get overwhelmed trying to pay for programs where the benefit is almost nonexistent to the overall majority, yet mandated to provide the program.

[EDF]

I know taxes aren't popular, but I was thinking about how education is beholden to the state for its funding, and when the state goes bust, so does the funding for our schools.

We are looking, now after the house of cards on Wall Street collapsed last week, at even more education cuts in the next few months. The allocations that our district receieved at the beginning of the year to reinstate some of our cuts, are likely going to be rescinded. I imagine this could affect instructional aides in 3rd grade and/or library clerks. Just when we thought we got them back, they certainly aren't here to stay under these conditions.
How much do we value education in Folsom? Do we want another grade to lose CSR? What's going to be next? The district's hands are tied. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip, but by all accounts, we have cut to the bone already.
Most of our City Council candidates didn't seem to favor a practical, genuine and results-motivated fiscal partnership between the City and the FCUSD. They cited legal issues and restrictions. Is the City really doing all it can in only addressing after-school issues? There must me more we can do. Even with those legal constraints, I think we can do more. Maybe I'm wrong. I would like to brainstorm what we can do as a community to stop the state from impacting our community when it is issues elsewhere in California that have sucked funding away from our community - and specifically from our schools.

Would it be possible to:

Introduce a local measure that would require a citizens' council of finance experts to evaluate the school district's budget as it pertains to Folsom schools (R. Cordova isn't part of Folsom, and therefore would have to do it's own grassroots movement) and determine what can be cut or expanded? If we take charge of this as a community to support the education in THIS community, isn't that the American way? It could be argued that this is the school board's role, but maybe there does need to be more scrutiny of the school district's budget, as City Council candidate Ernie Sheldon, suggested in a recent forum. There is a lot of disagreement over how money is spent in FCUSD and whether cuts they make were necessary when compared with other districts in this region. The argument from the school board is often that the budget is transparent and published for public review but most people can't understand the intricacies of public education funding. I know that education funding is indeed restrictive and intricate, so maybe we could have people who understand this sort of finance assess it from year to year or even every other year.
Assess a small local tax - could be sales tax or an add-on to property taxes that would fund Folsom schools (teachers at current minimum levels and basic general education services and support) in emergency situations like the one we are facing now? A committee could identify what defines "minimum level" as Folsom residents would prioritize their own needs versus being subject to state limitations in fiscal crises.

I would like to know whether this is something people could support. I realize the amount of the tax would affect whether people would be even willing to consider such an idea. And I also realize there is a lot of opposition to taxes of any kind no matter how noble the cause.
But can't we do more as a community? Can't we set a new standard? Can't we demonstrate that our priorities won't be comprised? Weren't there businesses that were willing to help fund schools in part? What if we formed a corporation or a foundation or something that could augment what we get ( or dont' get) from the state.
I feel frustrated because, I faithfully pay my taxes... including an exorbitant five-figure amount on capital gains on my home sale after I moved north from the southern part of the state. I feel like the state doesn't place education at the top of its priority list. MY priority is education, so when I see my money going to the state only to have it squandered, I want to scream. I would be in favor of paying an extra tax for the express and precise purpose of protecting education funding in Folsom and Folsom alone. Maybe we could establish a model that other communities could emulate. Who knows?
I know people like EDF and Chip will have snide remarks just because this is a tax issue. If you want to shoot it down, fine. But offer another legitimate, alternative idea if you can. I really want to see what we can do here. This is from my heart.

Pari.

Miss Pari...

You are right... I do not support any kind of tax increase...

However...there was a solution proposed by those of us involved in Folsom Education issues back in 1995...

and that was the "split of the school" district...

many of us thought it would be a great idea because we sure could have combined resources and you wouldn't need to have the assistant to the secretary to the assistant vice principle... etc... get the point...

The problem was the people in the Education Establishment didn't want anything to do with the City of Folsom, because just like any "government worker-bee" they wanted their own "turf" to run...because after all...? they were the "professionals"...

The solution was to split the district because we just might support some tax, but we know the district would somehow be slipping some of that dough over to the Rancho side....

and... I am always amazed at you "education/governmenet" types... you always want more money from us the stinking taxpayer....

my income has gone way down... many people have been layed off... but for some reason... government never seems to shrink...

no what happens in government is that they call a "cut in the rate of growth" as a cut....

I call a cut in spending as a figure that is less than what you spent last year....

Now... Pari... I appreciate that you are a teacher... but I'm not a big fan of Government Run public schools, because you have a "liberal" agenda, such as teaching the "homosexual" lifestyle... man made global warming which is unproven and less and less about what a great country we have"....

So... don't look to me...because this is one issue that I think people have strong feelings for...

We have passed bonds to put up some great buildings and you teachers are lucky to be working in a town that has a lot of "parental involvement"... so my suggestion to you is to work with the local school PTA's and get those bake sales going... car washes... etc... and quit this crap of always coming to the taxpayer like it's some noble thing we are being asked to do... why...?

Because many of us think it's very "self serving" of you to be asking...

I love you though....

Now Get back to me... with something outside the box....

[Folsom Guy]

Miss Pari...

You are right... I do not support any kind of tax increase...

However...there was a solution proposed by those of us involved in Folsom Education issues back in 1995...

and that was the "split of the school" district...

Very easy to pick on teachers, isn't it....anyhoo, I wasn't here in Folsom in 1995 and have no idea why the split suggestion failed...in general I've seen areas combine to achieve 'economies of scale'. But, if some money from Folsom is going to RC, then let's figure it out and hold their feet to fire...no point lobbing stink bombs with no facts or basis.

and... I am always amazed at you "education/governmenet" types... you always want more money from us the stinking taxpayer....

my income has gone way down... many people have been layed off... but for some reason... government never seems to shrink...

no what happens in government is that they call a "cut in the rate of growth" as a cut....

I call a cut in spending as a figure that is less than what you spent last year....

Am sure you know this, but, the populations, no. of kids, etc. does not go down with the economy...unless you are OK to remove a few students from the school and prevent enrolment of new students... it's very easy to make thoughtless bombastic comments...but, there's no way you can compare a business to the govt...their operating paradigms are totally different. Now, by all means we oughta increase efficiencies....but, making a blanket statement like you did is totally off base.

Now... Pari... I appreciate that you are a teacher... but I'm not a big fan of Government Run public schools, because you have a "liberal" agenda, such as teaching the "homosexual" lifestyle... man made global warming which is unproven and less and less about what a great country we have"....

Whoa...

Can you name one Folsom school that has taught the so-called 'liberal agenda'. Pari started this thread for the public schools in Folsom....the least you can do is stick to Folsom. I have sent my kids thru Elementary, Middle and High schools here and never ever saw or heard anything about homosexuality. They do a lot of anti-drug, smoking and alcohol initiatives. Yes, I did notice that in the sex education, they do teach enough about STD and HIV and they are scared as hell to even try it. Hope (and pray) that fear lasts long enough that they can go without it until marriage. But by sticking to Folsom issues, then you'd have to come up with sensible thoughts and ideas, isn't it. Then, you don't get to carry out your favorite pastime, senselessly diss, moan and whine.

So... don't look to me...because this is one issue that I think people have strong feelings for...

We have passed bonds to put up some great buildings and you teachers are lucky to be working in a town that has a lot of "parental involvement"... so my suggestion to you is to work with the local school PTA's and get those bake sales going... car washes... etc... and quit this crap of always coming to the taxpayer like it's some noble thing we are being asked to do... why...?

Because many of us think it's very "self serving" of you to be asking...

I love you though....

Now Get back to me... with something outside the box....

You are in real-estate business and you shud kno better than anyone else - genarally speaking, property values have a direct correlation to the quality of schools. So, who shud we look to for funding - Peruvians? Who's most concerned about our property values? Folks in Timbuktu? Pari made a suggestion for having a tax to support Folsom schools exclusively to ensure minimum level of standards....if done right, why should it be off the table? Especially, if it helps preserve property values?

[Bill Z]

Unfortunately, people get sentimental and support touchy feel good measures that mandate programs that add significant costs to agencies without any concept of how the programs are going to get paid.

Smaller districts get overwhelmed trying to pay for programs where the benefit is almost nonexistent to the overall majority, yet mandated to provide the program.

That's why I support killing the Federal Dept of Education and greatly restricting and shrinking the states Dept of Education.

Stop with these universal global mandates and the small local school districts won't have a problem serving their local community.

[Robert Giacometti]

That's why I support killing the Federal Dept of Education and greatly restricting and shrinking the states Dept of Education.

Stop with these universal global mandates and the small local school districts won't have a problem serving their local community.

Bill, the system is going to crash because of all the mandated programs. Then we will have true reform.

[Bill Z]

Bill, the system is going to crash because of all the mandated programs. Then we will have true reform.

I hear you. I just wonder when? And how bad it has to get before the crash? Not just education, but the American way of life in general. Is the recent bailout the beginning of the end, or do we have another 50-100 years before America is forced to wake up?

[Robert Giacometti]

I hear you. I just wonder when? And how bad it has to get before the crash? Not just education, but the American way of life in general. Is the recent bailout the beginning of the end, or do we have another 50-100 years before America is forced to wake up?

I'm guessing 5 years! As revenues shrink for government , they will finally be forced to address the cost of delivering service and the cost of programs. California will be first!

My Republicans had a GOLDEN opportunity to truly be proactive and head this issue off, but like so many when they get power & control then loose track of what it was they were supposed to do.

[supermom]

Isn't there ( through an historical lense )-- a direct correlation of hard financial times and a boom in births generationally?

My thoughts---The harder the market falls---the more children we will be educating in public schools within 7 or so years.

Additionally, I would be interested in hearing of another tax levying system. Perhaps, rather than taxing homeowners only ( I think that is unfair when talking about educating everyone's kids )--maybe we should consider taxing something that is primarily sold to children in the city? Like candy?

Rather than instantly distancing oneselves from the thought of taxes alltogether-how about brainstorming a tax that is "gifted" by the city to our students school programs ( notice--I'm not talking about placing the money into the districts general fund--rather directly into certain under-served programs)--thereby curbing the districts cuts in certain areas?

Would I go for it? If it was well written and enforceable=yes.

But, I honestly do not think that this is something that can be studied and then pushed through city Leg. before our schools truest need.

A savings fund should have been considered years ago. I suppose it could be started now--but with no end in sight in financial cuts--it would probably be drained annually.

As to the thoughts of conglomerating all the school districts within our county----I think that that would be a nightmare. I do not see how that would save money. The work and paper for all those schools would still need to be done. And frankly-I don't see anyone doing that work for less than what they are earning now.

However, that doesn't mean I don't wonder about why the state legislature has forced X amount of money cuts from our school district. Nowhere, did I see a statewide -districts- assessment of funding for every public school in the state. It's great to know that we "used to" have all that money in our coffers--but I wonder--by size of district ( in student numbers ) where do we sit statewide in all funding? I don't just mean comparing teacher to admin ratios of pay. Also all the programs. Were we really receiving all that much more cream over the state and federal "minimums" before? I wonder what the real deal is. How would northern versus southern Ca districts fare when comparing # of students sitting in the classrooms--to funding, and useage of that funding?

[EDF]

Very easy to pick on teachers, isn't it....anyhoo, I wasn't here in Folsom in 1995 and have no idea why the split suggestion failed...in general I've seen areas combine to achieve 'economies of scale'. But, if some money from Folsom is going to RC, then let's figure it out and hold their feet to fire...no point lobbing stink bombs with no facts or basis.
Am sure you know this, but, the populations, no. of kids, etc. does not go down with the economy...unless you are OK to remove a few students from the school and prevent enrolment of new students... it's very easy to make thoughtless bombastic comments...but, there's no way you can compare a business to the govt...their operating paradigms are totally different. Now, by all means we oughta increase efficiencies....but, making a blanket statement like you did is totally off base.
Whoa...

Can you name one Folsom school that has taught the so-called 'liberal agenda'. Pari started this thread for the public schools in Folsom....the least you can do is stick to Folsom. I have sent my kids thru Elementary, Middle and High schools here and never ever saw or heard anything about homosexuality. They do a lot of anti-drug, smoking and alcohol initiatives. Yes, I did notice that in the sex education, they do teach enough about STD and HIV and they are scared as hell to even try it. Hope (and pray) that fear lasts long enough that they can go without it until marriage. But by sticking to Folsom issues, then you'd have to come up with sensible thoughts and ideas, isn't it. Then, you don't get to carry out your favorite pastime, senselessly diss, moan and whine.

dude... I don't moan and whine... but I will cop to "dissing".... since you weren't here in 95, then you don't know what you are talking about because I was..

All the schools teach the "liberal agenda"... read some of the books your little brats bring home and you'll get a wake up call... I read my youngest kids Social studies book I think it was when he was like in 7th grade.. it was really spouting out the "blessings" of socialism especially when it compared what it cost to go to school here and over in some Euro-trash countries.... of course Euro-trash is all government funded... you gotta pay your own here...

Educrats don't want anyone else in their "bidness"... because they want the $$$ for themselves... splitting the district was a great idea... it just wasn't politically possibile because of the stinking educrat lobby... which is not there for your little brats... it's to protect the pay and benefits of the workers in the system...


You are in real-estate business and you shud kno better than anyone else - genarally speaking, property values have a direct correlation to the quality of schools. So, who shud we look to for funding - Peruvians? Who's most concerned about our property values? Folks in Timbuktu? Pari made a suggestion for having a tax to support Folsom schools exclusively to ensure minimum level of standards....if done right, why should it be off the table? Especially, if it helps preserve property values?

as for funding.... They got enough... my little darlings went through the Folsom system and they did just stinking fine... inspite of having 30 little stink wads in their classes...because they use this "team teaching" method of having little groups of 4 where you have one brat doing all the work dragging the other 3... it's not the way I was taught and somehow I made it through and didn't wind up on welfare...

I'm sick and tired of the resistance to anything that is real reform, such as a school choice and this outrage called "tenure"... get rid of that my friend... and I'll be a much bigger supporter... till then... they get the middle finger from me... respectfully of course...because after all... I am a nice warm and fuzzy lovable kind of right wing wacko... really...

Now that I have passed on some of my "learn-ed" wisdom...? get back to me with "Le A Game"...

[Homeguy]

Education in CA is adequately funded. It receives 40% of a budget of $140B +. The problem that Arnold’s people found when they did an audit of the education system in CA was that 1/3 of the money never gets to the district level. Of course he never followed up on this with a reform agenda, which is what he originally said he would do when running for office. He started to listen to the political pros and got distracted with his short attention span.

One of the ideas was to reduce the number of over 80 special categorical funding programs that make up school budgets. They were supposed to be grouped into blocks but this too got sidetracked. It is possible in CA to have plenty of money to buy new books and store them in a room but not have the money to fix the leaking roof and the books therefore are ruined. If a district could prioritize its’ spending and not have it so highly structured by the State, efficiency and some sanity could be achieved. Of course this requires the local school board to be more than a rubber stamp for the district admin who tend to manipulate boards. Look at Sacramento Unified and the Natomas School Districts for recent examples of bad oversight. FCUSD has over $15M as a reserve fund but did not use part of it to prevent direct service staff positions from being cut. That money is being saved to help pay the cost of a new district office until the funds can be drawn from the assessment district south of Hwy 50. Has the FCUSD Board really considered this choice or were they manipulated?


Another cost saving idea is the reorganizing the county offices of education into regional offices, thereby eliminating all the excess staff and overlapping services in adjoining counties. The State Dept. of Ed. is another waste of money where cuts could be easily made. Both these levels put some pretty ridiculous requirements on school districts which do nothing to improve education and offer some unnecessary services. Last year the CA Dept. of Ed. spent over $1M sponsoring a single conference.

The latest funding outrage is the announcement of Folsom Lake College starting athletics. I will never listen to the presidents of the JC’s crying about funding when they have money to spend on non-academic programs, which have nothing to do with their mission.

No tax increases until the system is fixed and accountable.

[pet lover]

No tax increases until the system is fixed and accountable.

I TOTALLY AGREE!