32 replies to this topic

[wreathlady]

While I agree that CA isn't ready for a pandemic..You have to also remember that only a small percentage of people will die....It's very small....Trust me, with the over use of anti biotics and the chorine resistance of disenfection, there will be worse bacterias that can't be treated.....It's too bad our country is that of a third world now...
C'mon, if you have sell everything the State owns, you are freakin' broke...The rich can leave any time they want....Most rich people have second and third homes outside of the States...Hell, I even have friends who are middle-upper middle class who have a plan if America becomes more of a cesspool than it is now....Economic chaos is just the beginning to social chaos....Did you see on the news where the Winco Foods had some job openings? People who were cut from welfare had fist fights over who was in line first...Scary.....SERIOUSLY, you either have to quit worrying and go about your biz or possibly relocate....Sacramento is always one of those places that gets hard on weird diseases...Remember the thread disease that was only found here? Also, Sacrmaento has some of the most failing grades in healtcare b/c this is where HMOs started...In some counties where there are heavy immigrant Mexican populations there is little swine flu...Anyone want to explain that one? It's highly unlikely that it spread from the one pig farm in Mexico...That's all I'm saying....

Thanks for the input. When I was in Mercy Folsom for Pneumonia back in april, one of the nurses told me that too about Sac. Actually, we just relocated here, so we cant go back and you are right, worrying will get me no where. I have no control. I, too, thought it was weird that areas like Fresno, Watsonville, etc would be hit hard, but something is up with that, too. Just my opinion, the big Pharmas let it out, to get their profit margin higher. they do not care how they do it. Just a thought, too.

[asbestoshills]

I don't think big pharma let it out...I think it was in the food chain...Remember the pig slaughtering plants (I forget which state) where the workers, mostly Mexican got sick upon breaking up the brains of pigs for consumption? They got sick immediately...A couple died...This could have been the beginning....And then it spread...How did they get the virus? Don't know....Possibly filthy living environments of the pigs...Then it spread from there.....No one really talks about the importance of how it became in the first place...Remember, HIV? No one really seemed to research it and the media told the public or it's just another disease that somehow can replicate itself like the common cold, but can wipe out entire populations....I had a professor who swore a scientist testing viruses on gay men in Africa started it, but no one knows for sure....Who knows how viruses evolve in such a short time....You are right about people just talking about what to do know....But there should be some real research to how in the hell this happened in the first place and how to prevent something like it in the future....I know I would be cautious in getting the first round of a vaccine....Look at those commercials for Gardisal, that you are suppose to give to your daughters to prevent cervical cancer....I read an article that some girls got completely paralyzed from the shot....Really odd...Just like 99 percent of the drugs out there...Totally not effective and have gross side effects...If you need 22 drugs a day to stay alive, maybe it's time to call it quits...I have seen some of these elderly people more doped up than Michael Jackson driving around all hoped up on legal prescription drugs....Scary.....Good luck and I think u brought up good points.

[wreathlady]

I don't think big pharma let it out...I think it was in the food chain...Remember the pig slaughtering plants (I forget which state) where the workers, mostly Mexican got sick upon breaking up the brains of pigs for consumption? They got sick immediately...A couple died...This could have been the beginning....And then it spread...How did they get the virus? Don't know....Possibly filthy living environments of the pigs...Then it spread from there.....No one really talks about the importance of how it became in the first place...Remember, HIV? No one really seemed to research it and the media told the public or it's just another disease that somehow can replicate itself like the common cold, but can wipe out entire populations....I had a professor who swore a scientist testing viruses on gay men in Africa started it, but no one knows for sure....Who knows how viruses evolve in such a short time....You are right about people just talking about what to do know....But there should be some real research to how in the hell this happened in the first place and how to prevent something like it in the future....I know I would be cautious in getting the first round of a vaccine....Look at those commercials for Gardisal, that you are suppose to give to your daughters to prevent cervical cancer....I read an article that some girls got completely paralyzed from the shot....Really odd...Just like 99 percent of the drugs out there...Totally not effective and have gross side effects...If you need 22 drugs a day to stay alive, maybe it's time to call it quits...I have seen some of these elderly people more doped up than Michael Jackson driving around all hoped up on legal prescription drugs....Scary.....Good luck and I think u brought up good points.

Who knows for sure. I know someone knows, they are just not telling. I am with you on the vaccine issue. I think vaccines are good, dont get me wrong, but some, like you pointed out, Gardisal, has done much damage to young women, they were supposed to pull it , but oh no, it is still on. Plus the thing they do not tell you is there are many variations of cerivcal cancer that this shot does not cover, just like influenza, so you have to do your research. All drugs have side effects, and some after years get "Black Box" warnings, for instance, Cipro, kills everything, but kills all the cartilage in your tendons, knees, legs, etc. With that said, I am with you, too many meds given out these days. You tell a MD you are sad, antidpressent, no questions asked. Anyway, off the subject. I hope we all do ok and I am trying to boost my immune system, but I do not have a good one. I just care my kids and grandkids will be safe from all harm.

[a little bean]

It's funny reading this thread and thinking about how many people complain about their doctors, their hospitals, the pharmaceutical companies, but then will turn right around and spit out the Fox News talking point "We have the best healthcare system in the world". Who feels that they are honestly receiving the best healthcare in the world? I sure don't. I don't know that the proposals for healthcare reform that are going through congress right now are necessarily the right ones, but boy does something need to change. I know that people are always arguing that capitalism makes the standards higher, but capitalism is what makes hospitals cut nursing staff in order to improve their bottom lines. It's what makes them hire the cheapest janitorial staff they can get away with in order to improve their bottom line. It's what makes pharmaceutical companies push unnecessary drugs or drugs that haven't been fully tested onto the market. It's what pushes research into the areas of the most expensive treatments, cause those are the ones that make them money, and stay away from holistic ones because they're too readily available. It's what makes them hide mistakes to avoid lawsuits. It's what makes them push unnecessary treatments. At the very least, it seems like hospitals should have to operate as non-profits. Our current system favors share holders over patients, and that just ain't right.

[bordercolliefan]

It's funny reading this thread and thinking about how many people complain about their doctors, their hospitals, the pharmaceutical companies, but then will turn right around and spit out the Fox News talking point "We have the best healthcare system in the world". Who feels that they are honestly receiving the best healthcare in the world? I sure don't. I don't know that the proposals for healthcare reform that are going through congress right now are necessarily the right ones, but boy does something need to change. I know that people are always arguing that capitalism makes the standards higher, but capitalism is what makes hospitals cut nursing staff in order to improve their bottom lines. It's what makes them hire the cheapest janitorial staff they can get away with in order to improve their bottom line. It's what makes pharmaceutical companies push unnecessary drugs or drugs that haven't been fully tested onto the market. It's what pushes research into the areas of the most expensive treatments, cause those are the ones that make them money, and stay away from holistic ones because they're too readily available. It's what makes them hide mistakes to avoid lawsuits. It's what makes them push unnecessary treatments. At the very least, it seems like hospitals should have to operate as non-profits. Our current system favors share holders over patients, and that just ain't right.

You raise some great points. I've been working in the field of elder abuse and neglect (in both hospitals and nursing homes), and the for-profit ones SKIMP unbelievably on the staffing. A lot of the time they don't even meet the state-mandated bare minimum -- it's cheaper just to pay the fines than to raise wages and hire more staff.

A couple weeks ago, the NYT had a great article comparing two hospitals in similar communities in Texas. One spent WAY more than the other on health care. Turned out one hospital was owned by an association of local doctors (an increasingly common arrangement). Naturally, the doctors were constantly sending people to the hospital for tests and diagnostics, 'cause that's how they made money! And, under our system, there's nothing illegal about that! Not too many doctors own hospitals, but many are partners in MRI offices and mammography centers and stuff like that -- any place they can "refer" patients to make more $$.

[Malamute]

I find this funny.

here we are complaining about doctors making money refering people for expensive tests.

whereas other topics have comments complaining about doctors saving money by not ordering tests and people die

Which way do you want it, folks?

[a little bean]

I find this funny.

here we are complaining about doctors making money refering people for expensive tests.

whereas other topics have comments complaining about doctors saving money by not ordering tests and people die

Which way do you want it, folks?

I just want my doctor to put my health before anything else. I'm happy to pay for tests when they are needed. The choice should not be have my doctor order unnecessary tests to pad his wallet or else die. Instead, maybe we should change the system so taht doctor's are free to treat their patients without having to worry about how much money they will make for themselves or their company.

[bordercolliefan]

Good question, Malamute. Everyone acts according to their self-interest. Thus, doctors who own MRI facilities etc. will order the test, whereas the health insurance company wants to deny the test.

My doctor friend (now works on health policy for Intel) is a huge proponent of "evidence-based medicine." I asked, "What's that?" He said, "It's treating patients based on the protocols that have been proven, through studies, to achieve the best results." I was like, "What??! You mean doctors don't already do that?!" He told me no, that a lot of medicine now is hunch-based. That's why you get one doctor who leans toward surgery for a given condition, while another one might treat with medicine. Doctors don't always get the data on what really works the best; they just go with what they've been doing for years that seems to be pretty much be working.

Interestingly, Obama is pushing hard for a move to evidence-based medicine. That would create some objectivity, and lessen the problem of doctors OR insurance companies trying to make money on the backs of patients.

[Malamute]

Good question, Malamute. Everyone acts according to their self-interest. Thus, doctors who own MRI facilities etc. will order the test, whereas the health insurance company wants to deny the test.

My doctor friend (now works on health policy for Intel) is a huge proponent of "evidence-based medicine." I asked, "What's that?" He said, "It's treating patients based on the protocols that have been proven, through studies, to achieve the best results." I was like, "What??! You mean doctors don't already do that?!" He told me no, that a lot of medicine now is hunch-based. That's why you get one doctor who leans toward surgery for a given condition, while another one might treat with medicine. Doctors don't always get the data on what really works the best; they just go with what they've been doing for years that seems to be pretty much be working.

Interestingly, Obama is pushing hard for a move to evidence-based medicine. That would create some objectivity, and lessen the problem of doctors OR insurance companies trying to make money on the backs of patients.

Hmm, Government run check list for objective treatment or Educated doctor going with his hunch (best guesstimate)?

I'll go with the doctor's guess if given the choice.

Doctor, I have flu like symtoms, what is wrong with me?


Government checklist says go home, drink plenty of fluids, and get some rest.

Doctor says, hmm, with that nasty looking tick hanging from your tail, let's test you for Lyme disease and let's get you started on some antibiotics.


Just saying, as soon as you have government mandated checklists, your quality of healthcare will become that robotic.

[bordercolliefan]

Yeah, you're right. Science, schmience! I'd much rather be treated according to superstition and folk remedy.

[Malamute]

Yeah, you're right. Science, schmience! I'd much rather be treated according to superstition and folk remedy.

NO, I said the hunch of an educated doctor, so he's been trained by science, but is a thinking feeling human being. When you replace his thought process with a question & answer. If A, then B, elsewise skip to C, you get the last thing I want which is a government mandated troubleshooting guide for healthcare decisions.

There are four problems with this approach.

First, two people with the exact same problem quite often exhibit different symptoms.

Second, two people with the exact same symptoms quite often have different problems.

Third, two people with the exact same problem & symptoms may require different treatments.

Using statistics to establish treatment protocols ignores the above 3 issues, I want a doctor that thinks for himself rather than one just following the established protocols.

I will always choose Dr. McCoy over the Emergency Medical Hologram from Voyager.

fourth problem, I don't trust the government to get the checklist right.

"Your left foot big toe hurts, Uncle Sam recommends amputating your right arm."

[FolsomFrogGuy]

Tamiflu-resistant swine flu spreads 'between patients'
By Fergus Walsh
Health correspondent, BBC News

Health officials say a Tamiflu-resistant strain of swine flu has spread between hospital patients.

Five patients on a unit treating people with severe underlying health conditions at the University Hospital of Wales, Cardiff were infected.

Three appear to have acquired the infection in hospital.

They are thought to be the first confirmed cases of person-to-person transmission of a Tamiflu-resistant strain in the world.

Cont' at the BBC....

[Darthvader]

Tamiflu-resistant swine flu spreads 'between patients'
By Fergus Walsh
Health correspondent, BBC News

Health officials say a Tamiflu-resistant strain of swine flu has spread between hospital patients.

Five patients on a unit treating people with severe underlying health conditions at the University Hospital of Wales, Cardiff were infected.

Three appear to have acquired the infection in hospital.

They are thought to be the first confirmed cases of person-to-person transmission of a Tamiflu-resistant strain in the world.

Cont' at the BBC....

WOW, keep spreading the hype and fear. Did you miss the part about the "patients with severe underlying conditions?" Or that this was not unexpected at all? Especially in patients with reduced immune systems?

Man, what a way to mis-lead. Here's some more about the FEAR for the untested vaccine:

http://www.foxnews.c...,576019,00.html

[JLS]

The WHO has been posting information in regards to mutations as well as how they respond to the vaccines and antivirals. Here is the latest update posted today that is quite re-assuring IMO.

http://www.who.int/c...0/en/index.html

[JLS]

WOW, keep spreading the hype and fear. Did you miss the part about the "patients with severe underlying conditions?" Or that this was not unexpected at all? Especially in patients with reduced immune systems?

Man, what a way to mis-lead. Here's some more about the FEAR for the untested vaccine:

http://www.foxnews.c...,576019,00.html

I do agree that this particular news story is nothing to fear.

Although there are 2 sides to the "fear" spreading going on. You spread fear over the vaccine that has proved to be safe of no IMMEDIATE problems after about 100 Million+ have got the vaccine. The other side is spreading fear of the H1N1 which has proved to be fatal in quite a few cases. Whether or not they had underlying conditions doesn't make me feel any better as I have a health disorder that certainly puts me in a dangerous case if I was to get the H1N1. If I was to die from it when normal flu's don't cause any problems for me then I should hope that people like you don't just spread around "well, he had an underlying condition so who cares...".

I wish people like you would post more then just "it's untested" and actually give us some links that state what's untested about it verses the yearly flu vaccine that changes yearly. The vaccine was created in the same fashion they create those every-year and tested in the same way before going to public as far as I'm aware. So whats so scary about it???

I've been vaccinated as well as my wife, daughters, and outside family adults and kids. One of us got a mild headache for 2 hours after the vaccine other then that its been a while and we've had no troubles. Any long term effect risks I would expect to be the same as the normal flu vaccine. Only difference is the in-activated h1n1 in it but I'm possitive we would all get the flu this year or next so I'd rather take my chances with the symptom free vaccine for the immunities vs getting it and fearing my daughters or my health on the line.