45 replies to this topic

[Bill Z]

Honestly it was only a matter of time before this happened again. There are several sites along the lake the you can jump from safely but China Wall is not one of them. The drop has to be about 50 to 60 feet and the cliff edge juts out at an outward facing angel. In an attempt to stop people from jumping a little fence thing was put in front of China Wall. All this did was to show people where China Wall is at and block the safest place to jump. A friend of mine in high school shattered one of this legs jumping off that stupid cliff.

I have to agree with Darth on this one, to jump off that cliff is a deathwish.

You know, some people think anyone that skydives has a deathwish, others think anyone that rides a motorcycle has a deathwish, when that is absolutely not the truth. There are those of us, thrillseekers, that enjoy doing dangerous things, but it doesn't mean we have a wish to die.

I'm sure death was not on that guy's mind when he jumped. Having fun is what was on his mind. It is tragic that this accidental death occurred, and yes, it could have been prevented by the kid not jumping. The fact that we know this has been going on, and to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time someone has died from it, shows that most are having fun doing it. I actually think removal of the swing is a poor choice by the authorities, as that appears to be much safer than free jumping, the swing makes it easier to clear the cliff edge with lots of room and margin for error.

While some on here I'm sure would argue for making it a banned place for people to go, I'm one that would prefer warning signs and reminders of the dangers involved and that jumpers do so at their own risk. it's not too late to grant people freedom.

[Rickykicks]

You know, some people think anyone that skydives has a deathwish, others think anyone that rides a motorcycle has a deathwish, when that is absolutely not the truth. There are those of us, thrillseekers, that enjoy doing dangerous things, but it doesn't mean we have a wish to die.

I'm sure death was not on that guy's mind when he jumped. Having fun is what was on his mind. It is tragic that this accidental death occurred, and yes, it could have been prevented by the kid not jumping. The fact that we know this has been going on, and to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time someone has died from it, shows that most are having fun doing it. I actually think removal of the swing is a poor choice by the authorities, as that appears to be much safer than free jumping, the swing makes it easier to clear the cliff edge with lots of room and margin for error.

While some on here I'm sure would argue for making it a banned place for people to go, I'm one that would prefer warning signs and reminders of the dangers involved and that jumpers do so at their own risk. it's not too late to grant people freedom.

A 22 year old died there in 2003.

http://www.sacbee.co...ry/2215432.html


I don't want this area banned but I think a big stone with a RIP sign on it and a list of all the people injured or killed from jumping there might help some brain damaged youth to think twice. I was faced with the same choice and using my skills of common sense I concluded that jumping from this is VERY VERY VERY dangerous.

I do feel sorry for the family for their loss.

Also there is no swing at China Wall, rope swings are up and down the Lake.

Believe me if you go look at this area you would be amazed by how high up it actually is and how far out you have to jump just to clear it, plus there is stuff in the way while jumping.

[harrmill]

okay, so state parks cuts down the rope swing that was safer than just jumping off and that doesn't stop jumping, then they put up a fence and that makes it unsafer still. what next? maybe they should put up a sign with the names of people who have been killed or injured there. seems like its hard to stop kids from doing something like this, but maybe it will at least put a little fear in them.

This is not a bad idea. Seems every couple of years someone dies at this spot. I dont know why a sign is not placed right there clarifying the danger. They have one just below the output from Nimbus Dam that says with no uncertainty that if you enter the water there you will die. In Yosemite, at the top of Vernal Falls there is a sign with skull and crossbones that says "If you enter the water, you will die".

People determined to do this will still go ahead, but if it gets just one young person to re-think and turn back, then it would be worth it 1000 times. So sad.

[Darthvader]

You know, some people think anyone that skydives has a deathwish, others think anyone that rides a motorcycle has a deathwish, when that is absolutely not the truth. There are those of us, thrillseekers, that enjoy doing dangerous things, but it doesn't mean we have a wish to die.

I'm sure death was not on that guy's mind when he jumped. Having fun is what was on his mind. It is tragic that this accidental death occurred, and yes, it could have been prevented by the kid not jumping. The fact that we know this has been going on, and to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time someone has died from it, shows that most are having fun doing it. I actually think removal of the swing is a poor choice by the authorities, as that appears to be much safer than free jumping, the swing makes it easier to clear the cliff edge with lots of room and margin for error.

While some on here I'm sure would argue for making it a banned place for people to go, I'm one that would prefer warning signs and reminders of the dangers involved and that jumpers do so at their own risk. it's not too late to grant people freedom.

Bill there is a huge difference between the things you listed and what these kids do. Motorcycle riders wear protective gear and take safety courses, skydivers take lessons and have back-up chutes, etc.

These kids don't have a deathwish either, if they did I'd think they'd find a for sure way to get killed. But not understanding (or caring) what velocity is and the fact that water really isn't soft when you hit it at 30mph should maybe be taught in schools.

And if it's their freedom to jump there then it should also be my freedom not to have my tax dollars go for recovering their bodies, sound fair?

[4thgenFolsomite]

This is not a bad idea. Seems every couple of years someone dies at this spot. I dont know why a sign is not placed right there clarifying the danger. They have one just below the output from Nimbus Dam that says with no uncertainty that if you enter the water there you will die. In Yosemite, at the top of Vernal Falls there is a sign with skull and crossbones that says "If you enter the water, you will die".

People determined to do this will still go ahead, but if it gets just one young person to re-think and turn back, then it would be worth it 1000 times. So sad.

Yes, I think these signs are a good idea. some kids will think twice if they people have actually died there. otherwise, they think it is probably safe, considering how we've nerf-proofed every other risk in their life.

[Bill Z]

Bill there is a huge difference between the things you listed and what these kids do. Motorcycle riders wear protective gear and take safety courses, skydivers take lessons and have back-up chutes, etc.

These kids don't have a deathwish either, if they did I'd think they'd find a for sure way to get killed. But not understanding (or caring) what velocity is and the fact that water really isn't soft when you hit it at 30mph should maybe be taught in schools.

And if it's their freedom to jump there then it should also be my freedom not to have my tax dollars go for recovering their bodies, sound fair?

Not really, states without helmet laws, still have many motorcyclists that go helmetless.

Many rock climbers do use ropes and stuff, but there are those that choose to solo it without any protection other than their own skill and muscle.

And even those with all of the proper safety gear still know that sometimes the gear can fail them.

My point is, we as a society have to stop trying to protect everyone from themselves. The world will never be a 100% safe, and there are plenty of people that wouldn't want it that way anyway. I know I wouldn't want it that way.

[tony]

okay, so state parks cuts down the rope swing that was safer than just jumping off and that doesn't stop jumping, then they put up a fence and that makes it unsafer still. what next? maybe they should put up a sign with the names of people who have been killed or injured there. seems like its hard to stop kids from doing something like this, but maybe it will at least put a little fear in them.

Does anyone really know the reason DPR put up the fence? It doesn't make sense to me that it was an attempt to stop jumpers, but more a general safety precaution for trail users because of the height and the proximity of the edge of cliff to the bike path. This is also a very attractive viewing spot for the lake in general and rowing competitions, which start just below that point.

While I've jumped off my share of cliffs in m life, that is not one I would ever have considered trying. I will try to impress upon our boys that there are acceptable risks to take, and this is not one of them. And I do agree that a memorial for the deceased jumpers at the spot would be as valuable as any deterrent.

[4thgenFolsomite]

Does anyone really know the reason DPR put up the fence? It doesn't make sense to me that it was an attempt to stop jumpers, but more a general safety precaution for trail users because of the height and the proximity of the edge of cliff to the bike path. This is also a very attractive viewing spot for the lake in general and rowing competitions, which start just below that point.

While I've jumped off my share of cliffs in m life, that is not one I would ever have considered trying. I will try to impress upon our boys that there are acceptable risks to take, and this is not one of them. And I do agree that a memorial for the deceased jumpers at the spot would be as valuable as any deterrent.

I think you're right, Tony. That is a steep drop-off there and they need to have some sort of protection. As for your boys, somehow I think they are going to make the right decisions in life. We bought some peaches and berries from their sidewalk stand this last summer and were very impressed with one of your son's attention to detail. Nice boys all of them.

[The Average Joe]

You could simply cut back the top of the slope to make the first 10 feet or so a gradual downslope, maybe at a 3:1. No fences, barriers, etc.

That seems like an easy fix. Most states could hire Bob's grading and backhoe service and have it done in a day...
Here, we would probably have a geologist's inspection, an environmental impact report on potential wildlife, water and erosion issues, a public hearing to debate all other options, a lawsuit from the cliffjumpers assoc of america, treesitters, dirtsitters and media exposure. After several years of wrangling, and millions of dollars in research, debate and legal costs, the park service would decide it would be easier to just close all lake access to the public...

[Bill Z]

That seems like an easy fix. Most states could hire Bob's grading and backhoe service and have it done in a day...
Here, we would probably have a geologist's inspection, an environmental impact report on potential wildlife, water and erosion issues, a public hearing to debate all other options, a lawsuit from the cliffjumpers assoc of america, treesitters, dirtsitters and media exposure. After several years of wrangling, and millions of dollars in research, debate and legal costs, the park service would decide it would be easier to just close all lake access to the public...

You forgot to mention the boulder rollers of america,

a very loosly defined organization, but rumors have it, millions strong

[Squidward]

But not understanding (or caring) what velocity is and the fact that water really isn't soft when you hit it at 30mph should maybe be taught in schools.

This lesson is as easy as taking a serious bellyflop off a diving board. Once you get the air knocked out of you are in danger of drowning. The air in your lungs is your buoyancy. Loose buoyancy and you sink. If you are unconscious and sink you drown. Water is very unforgiving. It's not like getting the wind knocked out of you or loosing consciousness while on land where you can still breathe!

These kids need to be careful and plan for the worst logical outcome. Be safe and stay alive.

[hopeanelli]

That seems like an easy fix. Most states could hire Bob's grading and backhoe service and have it done in a day...
Here, we would probably have a geologist's inspection, an environmental impact report on potential wildlife, water and erosion issues, a public hearing to debate all other options, a lawsuit from the cliffjumpers assoc of america, treesitters, dirtsitters and media exposure. After several years of wrangling, and millions of dollars in research, debate and legal costs, the park service would decide it would be easier to just close all lake access to the public...

yep yep that is exactly how it would go, I am working at the Hazel Widening project and oh boy do we have every biologist, geologist and every other "ist" you could imagine watching...

I am so sorry for the family and their loss I just recently this summer heard of China Wall my son went and said it was crazy watching people do that he is a big fella who knows his big body would not make it out and into the water. He said he stayed in the water while friends did it because he thought if he was in and they got hurt he could save them.. SCARY stuff..

[pet lover]

Well said Darth. While it is sad for the family the boy certainly wasn't sensible in his thinking.

This isn't a tragedy, it's stupidity. A blind 30ft jump into changing waters is just dumb. On the news tonight they were talking to some other kids (not sure if they were his friends or there with him) but they almost seemed to be laughing at the whole incident. Pitiful.

A soldier dying for his country is tragic, a kid jumping off a bridge or a cliff is a stupid action and obviously they have no clue of the implications of their behavior.

[EDF]

maybe they should put a picture of this kid on a plaque with the date and time of this death and attach this plaque in a big stone pillar or something at this spot...so it will remind these other kids that... you know you might not come up... so be warned...

I saw the video of the mom... I'm sure this was probably the worst day of her life...I know that if this happened to one of my boys... well... I don't think much else in life would matter for a long time....