44 replies to this topic

[Bill Z]

I hate pretend wanna be vegetarians at company dinners, and I find this to be typically a female problem. I've been to lots of pizza parties over the years, and it is always the girls that request vegetarian pizzas, but when the pizzas arrive, why are these same girls eating the pepperoni, the Montague Meat Marvel and all of the other heart attacks on a plate and the only pizza that isn't totally consumed is the two or three vegetarian pizzas that the girls wanted.

Go ahead girls, flame at me all you want, but I speak the truth from years of experience.

[chris v]

I hate pretend wanna be vegetarians at company dinners, and I find this to be typically a female problem. I've been to lots of pizza parties over the years, and it is always the girls that request vegetarian pizzas, but when the pizzas arrive, why are these same girls eating the pepperoni, the Montague Meat Marvel and all of the other heart attacks on a plate and the only pizza that isn't totally consumed is the two or three vegetarian pizzas that the girls wanted.

Go ahead girls, flame at me all you want, but I speak the truth from years of experience.

I guess I'm the girl who wants that veg pizza... sorry. I actually like pizzas with tons of veg all over it rather than a bunch of greasy meat.

[SmartMoney]

I've know some vegetarians in my life..women..they never seemed quite healthy.

And I know they were craving a cheeseburger bigtime.

[Bill Z]

I guess I'm the girl who wants that veg pizza... sorry. I actually like pizzas with tons of veg all over it rather than a bunch of greasy meat.

If that's what you order and that's what you eat, I have no problems with that.

[Oldschooler81]

My daughter's doctor said it is perfectly fine for a kid to be a vegetarian, but you must watch the protein intake. It's not okay for them to simply eat the starch and veg at every meal, while skipping the meat, because then they won't get enough protein.

He also made a distinction between vegetarian and vegan. He said it is NOT okay for a kid to be vegan -- he has seen too many cases of malnourishment and bone problems resulting from that.

That makes sense just because their bodies are still developing and it probably needs that "foundation" more than anything, so if they don't eat meat they'd need lots of other protein. I didn't do it till I was toward the end of 19, that's probably like the earliest it could've been okay (at least biologically that's grown).

Vegans seem to be almost an alternative lifestyle. I suppose it's possible, although inconveinent, and you'd need alot of money (it's ironic that healthy food tends to be MORE expensive than junk!). Going to restaurants would be a pain too.

chris v - Yeah, I'm probably not a strict veg just because of the fish/seafood (it still is a living, breathing thing).

[Oldschooler81]

I guess I'm the girl who wants that veg pizza... sorry. I actually like pizzas with tons of veg all over it rather than a bunch of greasy meat.

lol, same here man. Even before I gave up meat, I typically didn't like that many pizza toppings besides pepperoni (then again, I was pickier as a kid anyway).

Did you ever go to Rico's on Madison in OV? They were great, but I remember being really stuffed on just 3-4 slices in the old days (more than anywhere else) and that's probably why.

[Bill Z]

My daughter's doctor said it is perfectly fine for a kid to be a vegetarian, but you must watch the protein intake. It's not okay for them to simply eat the starch and veg at every meal, while skipping the meat, because then they won't get enough protein.

He also made a distinction between vegetarian and vegan. He said it is NOT okay for a kid to be vegan -- he has seen too many cases of malnourishment and bone problems resulting from that.

I wonder how long the earliest of homo sapiens breast fed. Milk is a natural source of calcium and animal fat proteins. Bone growth does need lots of calcium and grey matter is mostly fatty tissues, so too low of protein and fats could effect brain growth and development. So to me that would be the argument against children being vegan, they really should get milk and milk products, both sources of animal fat without requiring the killing of the beast. nuts are also a good source of proteins for those on a low or no meat diet.

[bordercolliefan]

I wonder how long the earliest of homo sapiens breast fed. Milk is a natural source of calcium and animal fat proteins. Bone growth does need lots of calcium and grey matter is mostly fatty tissues, so too low of protein and fats could effect brain growth and development.

This touches on another interesting question. It would seem that humans have evolved as meat-eaters: as far as we know, early humans were hunters (as well as gatherers), and I believe human teeth are adapted for meat-eating rather than strictly plant-eating. If our teeth have evolved to eat meat, you might think other aspects of our biology (e.g., digestion, metabolism, brain development. etc.) also evolved to rely on a supply of animal nutrients.

If this is a reasonable assumption, then I question whether being vegetarian really is the healthiest choice. It may go against some of our fundamental biology.

All of the studies I've seen compare vegetarianism to HEAVY meat-eating (i.e., red meat 4-5 times a week). Not surprisingly, vegetarianism comes out on top. I'd like to see a comparison of vegetarianism to LIGHT meat-eating (say, chicken twice a week; beef once a week). I wouldn't be surprised the latter diet turns out to be healthier.

[bordercolliefan]

Further to the above:

According to a 1999 article in the journal The Ecologist, several of our physiological features "clearly indicate a design" for eating meat, including "our stomach's production of hydrochloric acid, something not found in herbivores. Furthermore, the human pancreas manufactures a full range of digestive enzymes to handle a wide variety of foods, both animal and vegetable.

"While humans may have longer intestines than animal carnivores, they are not as long as herbivores'; nor do we possess multiple stomachs like many herbivores, nor do we chew cud," the magazine adds. "Our physiology definitely indicates a mixed feeder."

If people were designed to be strict vegetarians, McArdle expects we would have a specialized colon, specialized teeth and a stomach that doesn't have a generalized pH-all the better to handle roughage. Tom Billings, a vegetarian for three decades and site editor of BeyondVeg.com, believes humans are natural omnivores. Helping prove it, he says, is the fact that people have a low synthesis rate of the fatty acid DHA and of taurine, suggesting our early ancestors relied on animal foods to get these nutrients. Vitamin B-12, also, isn't reliably found in plants. That, Billings says, left "animal foods as the reliable source during evolution."

History argues in favor of the omnivore argument, considering that humans have eaten meat for 2.5 million years or more, according to fossil evidence. Indeed, when researchers examined the chemical makeup of the teeth of an early African hominid that lived in woodlands three million years ago, they expected to learn that our ancestor lived on fruits and leaves. "But the isotopic clues show that it ate a varied diet, including either grassland plants or animals that themselves fed on grasses," reported the journal Science in 1999.

So, the question remains: Are humans natural vegetarians? In the end, whether a person lives a vegetarian lifestyle has less to do with esoteric matters of anatomy and more to do with ethics and personal values. The architecture of the human body offers no simple answers.

from http://www.rense.com...ral20/meant.htm

[Steve Heard]

I wonder how long the earliest of homo sapiens breast fed. Milk is a natural source of calcium and animal fat proteins. Bone growth does need lots of calcium and grey matter is mostly fatty tissues, so too low of protein and fats could effect brain growth and development. So to me that would be the argument against children being vegan, they really should get milk and milk products, both sources of animal fat without requiring the killing of the beast. nuts are also a good source of proteins for those on a low or no meat diet.

There is plenty of fat, protein and calcium in plants. Seeds, nuts and avocados come fist to mind.

[chris v]

This touches on another interesting question. It would seem that humans have evolved as meat-eaters: as far as we know, early humans were hunters (as well as gatherers), and I believe human teeth are adapted for meat-eating rather than strictly plant-eating. If our teeth have evolved to eat meat, you might think other aspects of our biology (e.g., digestion, metabolism, brain development. etc.) also evolved to rely on a supply of animal nutrients.

If this is a reasonable assumption, then I question whether being vegetarian really is the healthiest choice. It may go against some of our fundamental biology.

All of the studies I've seen compare vegetarianism to HEAVY meat-eating (i.e., red meat 4-5 times a week). Not surprisingly, vegetarianism comes out on top. I'd like to see a comparison of vegetarianism to LIGHT meat-eating (say, chicken twice a week; beef once a week). I wouldn't be surprised the latter diet turns out to be healthier.

I was told by a couple different dentists, that we are evolving out our wisdom teeth, because we are no longer hunter, gatherers. Therefore we no longer need those teeth.

[aztransplant]

Check out Brendan Brazier's Thrive Diet (he's a vegan triathlete). www.brendanbrazier.com

You can sign up for 30 days of free email lessons (Thrive in 30) at www.myvega.com.

Another plug for Brendan Brazier, this time from Tony Horton (P90X's) personal vegetarian chef (Missy Costello -- Karma Chow):

Sunday, September 13, 2009
The Benefits of a Vegan Diet
Veganism is a word that often scares people and why wouldn't it? Most people think a vegan diet is bland, lacking flavor, variety and most importantly, PROTEIN!
But these thoughts couldn't be further from the truth.

Being a vegetarian myself for many, many years, and a vegan off and on, my diet consists of a multitude of foods. Fruits, veggies, whole grains, legumes, nuts, seeds & healthy fats. If you think about it, meat is one type of food, all the other food out there is vegetarian in a sense, as long as it's in it's whole state. So you ask, where do I get my protein from on a vegetarian/vegan diet?

And I answer, plenty of places. One, whole grains, especially quinoa, amaranth and millet are high in protein, perfect protein in fact, as well as loads of vitamins and minerals. They are a nutrient-dense food and easy to digest. Secondly, veggies are a great source of protein. Protein is made up of amino-acids and when you ingest amino acids, they turn to protein in the body and there are tons of aminos in veggies. Legumes, nuts and seeds are all sources of high levels of protein.

Numerous studies have shown that animal protein & products, in fact, are a large contributor to cancer, more specifically, liver cancer. T. Colin Campbell's book, The China Study proves this enormous and sobering fact through 20 years of food and nutritional studies conducted using people and rats. Campbell also proved that active cancer cells can be made dormant by changing from a diet consisting of animal products to a plant-based diet.

Brendan Brazier, Professional Ironman Triathelete and author of Thrive, The Vegan Nutrition Guide to Optimal Performance in Sports & Life, touts a vegan diet for highest & quickest recovery rate after long and grueling workouts. Brendan ate every kind of diet under the sun, but after 20 years of experimenting with food, he concluded that eating a diet free of animal products resulted in a phenomeonal boost in energy, reduction in stress, quickest recovery after workouts and unending vitality.

Yes it is true that we need protein to survive, but Americans especially, have taken protein to an unhealthy level. We are eating above and beyond what our bodies need to survive, grow and heal, which can lead to an acidic environment, arthritis, digestive problems and a whole slew of other ailments. Studies have proven that plant protein allows for the slow-yet-steady synthesis of new proteins in the body, which is the healthiest way to acquire protein. To read another article on the vegetarian diet and protein, check out Veg News.


This is not meant to make meat eaters feel badly. This is to an bring awareness that anyone can get sufficient amounts of protein by following a vegan/vegetarian diet. It does take some planning and level of commitment, but it's worth it and I promise you will feel healthier, look better and maybe even live longer!! Remember your body is like a bank account, you are making an investment in your health! SO give it a try, give up meat maybe once or twice a week. How about on Mondays? Check out Meatless Monday's for some amazing Veg recipes!

[supermom]

Now I have heard a great deal about millet and flax in a vegetarian diet, however, I have also heard that flax, is much like sunflower seeds for parrots. it does have complex carbs, proteins and nutrients but when ingested it "sits" in the stomach until mixing with other foods to breakdown, and many times will combine with that "food" to make a high fat article.

Ok--I know that sounds confusing-because it does to me too.

[Bill Z]

all this vegan talk is making me hungry for a good juicy burger , then wash it down with a nice dark guinness or two or three

I would have gone for some babyback ribs , but there isn't an emoticon for eating ribs

[Oldschooler81]

I was told by a couple different dentists, that we are evolving out our wisdom teeth, because we are no longer hunter, gatherers. Therefore we no longer need those teeth.

Slightly off topic, but I sure hope that's true, lol. I haven't gotten mine yet, and I was squeamish enough just getting a root canal in '06!

Yeah, people in general do look different now than they did even a couple hundred years ago (like you can obviously tell George Washington isn't from today), partially due to diet but just genetics and evolution too. I'd say the "modern look" of people probably started in the '40s.