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Gay History May Be Taught In Public Schools....


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#16 (MaxineR)

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 05:48 PM

You're the one who said sexual positions will be taught in classrooms, not me. Every time anything about the gay community us brought up, you say you don't want to know what goes on in the bedroom. You know I'm gay, but have no idea about what I do in my bedroom do you?

Being gay is being emotionally OR sexually attracted to the same gender. You can be emotionally attracted and not have sex (is a celibate priest not straight if he doesn't have sex?). Do you think declaring yourself straight means you want to have sex with guys?

Do I think gay sex is normal and everyone does it? I can guarantee that straight couples practice sodomy. And what is your basis for normal?

Why arentyou complaining about learning about the Loving couple? They are famous BECAUSE of their relationship. Their relationship implies they were engaging in sex by your standard (and I'm basing that of the fact that you think leaning about a gay person means you learn sex, so learning about straight people you learn sex).

Turning a blind eye to oppresses groups is not the way we should Bruce as a society. Throughout history, groups have remained in hiding only to "come out" to try and gain their acceptance within their society. Even while they were "in the closet" their society still went around and did what they could to oppress them. It wasn't until they began standing up for themselves and having allies, and educating their society that they were able to go from oppressed to accepted.

Now getting back to the intent of this bill. How do you help create an atmosphere of respect if you don't talk about anything that the different groups have done to contribute to society? If a gay child is being raised in a home where they are told they are going to Hell, that they can't amount to anything for being gay, that they are no better than rapists, murders, and child molesters, what do you do? If a straight child is being brought up with those message and their parent(s)/family/church says it is ok to attack gay people since they don't deserve to be treated with respect, what do you do? If these children are attending a public school, does the state have a vested interest in how they are beige brought up to think about themselves or others? Once on campus, the school is responsible for whatever happens. Should the gay child learn that he or she CAN amount to something and do something good with their life? That they are better than a rapist, murder, or child molester, or let the parents still demean their child? In regards to the other child, should there be an intervention by the school in his or her upbringing to show that gays have done good in society, that they have made contributions, and that while they don't have to accept, they do at the very least tolerate a gay person?

It's great that you won't reject a gay person for being gay, but sadly many do. When I came out to my friend's I had had from second grade, they told me I, along with the entire gay population, should be dead. At FLC, I had a woman I had gotten to know over two years tell me that I need to die from AIDS (I came out to her after she said all gay men need to die from AIDS and lesbians just need to "find the right man").

You and others say you will accept a person for who they are, regardless if being gay or not. Many of us tell our friend's we are gay ecauae we don't want to be friends with people that share the above sentiments about us.



What is the "gay lifestyle"? Cuz I know there are many at people that live and behave differently than me.




I have a cousin who is Gay. Her parents were very hard on her whan they found out she was Gay...they were very religious, and told her she would go to H8ll if she didn't change her ways. So I know what you are talking about. She has visited me in my home and I in hers. I respect and honor her relationship with her partner and have had them both come to my house for dinner. She and her partner are very decent and responsible people. But I can not, and will not go to the places she and her partner go, because I am not in that circle, and am not comfortable in it.

The subject came about when she asked my husband and I to meet her and her partner for drinks before we went out with them to eat. The place was a well known Gay bar. My husband objected and I agreed it wasn't appropriate for us, so we canceled out. My cousin took offense and we are now cordial, but the relationship hasn't been as good as we had hoped it would. I know she blames my husband for that occurrence, but I've tried to tell her it was my decision to not go to the Gay bar as well.

I know that all Gays don't go to Gay bars and I know they are people who have their issues, just like the rest of us. But I can not support some of the beliefs they have regarding politics, any more than I can support Democrats.

Also, my husband and I became uncomfortable with some of the topics they would bring up....like they would drop little comments about what they intended to do when they got home, and it was of a sexual nature..."going to try out that new sex toy we bought the other day... tonight!" Or...."(blank) is going to come spend the weekend with us next week and WHOOOOO La La! If last time was any indication, we will be rocking the bed all weekend!"

To me public education is not a Gay issue, but a question of what is appropriate to teach children, who are impressionable and we need to be careful in that regard.If you tell children a same sex couple have the same type of relationship their Mom and Dad have, you really think they won't ask about sex????? My little niece asked ME if my cousin and her partner were going to have babies! I told her that she should ask her mother that question, as her mother is supposed to talk to her about that, not me.

Now, the public schools teach basic sex education which explains how babies come about. Do you really think a child is so stupid as to not wonder how things are going to work sexually, when they already know basic sexual functions?

For the record, I also do not believe we should teach children about religion in public schools either. I believe in the separation of church and state.

I am of the belief that it's far more important that our children learn to read, write, do math and study science than any other subjects. And they haven't been doing very well in these departments.

As for the way nasty people reacted to your telling them you are Gay, there will always be those types of people in the world and it's best to consider the source, than try to change the whole world by passing laws which will only make the masses think Gays are shoving their sexual orientation down out throats for us to accept, if we agree to it or not.

Oh, and by the way....my hair dresser is Gay too and he is wonderful! I'd never change who does my hair just because they are Gay. I enjoy talking to him about things that we are both comfortable with....like sports, gardening and books. And as long as he respects me and does not speak about his sex life or Gay politics, all will be well between us.

Just because I don't agree that Gay History should be taught in public schools, does not mean I hate Gays or feel they shouldn't have equal rights. Your being sexually active or not has nothing to do with anything, accept your personal choice.

#17 swmr545

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 01:32 PM

I have a cousin who is Gay. Her parents were very hard on her whan they found out she was Gay...they were very religious, and told her she would go to H8ll if she didn't change her ways. So I know what you are talking about. She has visited me in my home and I in hers. I respect and honor her relationship with her partner and have had them both come to my house for dinner. She and her partner are very decent and responsible people. But I can not, and will not go to the places she and her partner go, because I am not in that circle, and am not comfortable in it.

The subject came about when she asked my husband and I to meet her and her partner for drinks before we went out with them to eat. The place was a well known Gay bar. My husband objected and I agreed it wasn't appropriate for us, so we canceled out. My cousin took offense and we are now cordial, but the relationship hasn't been as good as we had hoped it would. I know she blames my husband for that occurrence, but I've tried to tell her it was my decision to not go to the Gay bar as well.

I know that all Gays don't go to Gay bars and I know they are people who have their issues, just like the rest of us. But I can not support some of the beliefs they have regarding politics, any more than I can support Democrats.

Also, my husband and I became uncomfortable with some of the topics they would bring up....like they would drop little comments about what they intended to do when they got home, and it was of a sexual nature..."going to try out that new sex toy we bought the other day... tonight!" Or...."(blank) is going to come spend the weekend with us next week and WHOOOOO La La! If last time was any indication, we will be rocking the bed all weekend!"

To me public education is not a Gay issue, but a question of what is appropriate to teach children, who are impressionable and we need to be careful in that regard.If you tell children a same sex couple have the same type of relationship their Mom and Dad have, you really think they won't ask about sex????? My little niece asked ME if my cousin and her partner were going to have babies! I told her that she should ask her mother that question, as her mother is supposed to talk to her about that, not me.

Now, the public schools teach basic sex education which explains how babies come about. Do you really think a child is so stupid as to not wonder how things are going to work sexually, when they already know basic sexual functions?

For the record, I also do not believe we should teach children about religion in public schools either. I believe in the separation of church and state.

I am of the belief that it's far more important that our children learn to read, write, do math and study science than any other subjects. And they haven't been doing very well in these departments.

As for the way nasty people reacted to your telling them you are Gay, there will always be those types of people in the world and it's best to consider the source, than try to change the whole world by passing laws which will only make the masses think Gays are shoving their sexual orientation down out throats for us to accept, if we agree to it or not.

Oh, and by the way....my hair dresser is Gay too and he is wonderful! I'd never change who does my hair just because they are Gay. I enjoy talking to him about things that we are both comfortable with....like sports, gardening and books. And as long as he respects me and does not speak about his sex life or Gay politics, all will be well between us.

Just because I don't agree that Gay History should be taught in public schools, does not mean I hate Gays or feel they shouldn't have equal rights. Your being sexually active or not has nothing to do with anything, accept your personal choice.


I think it's inappropriate to talk to people about what you're going to do when you get home. Regardless of if you're gay or straight...but it's not just gay couples that discuss their sex lives openly. I'm sorry your relationship w/ your cousin was strained because you weren't comfortable going to a gay bar, but on the flip side, how many straight places had your cousin gone to with you? While you may not be comfortable with it, more and more straight couples are going to gay bars. I had a friend who complimented a guy at FACES (a local gay bar) about his sweater. The guy thought my friend was hitting on him and punched him in the face. Gay people feel more comfortable in gay places, just like most straight people would feel more comfortable in a straight place than in a gay place. However, we are expected to go to the straight places far more often than we ask our friends and family to go to the gay places.

Teaching about the contributions about the gay community is NOT the same as teaching about gay sex. Again, I gave you examples of historical figures and moments and asked you what was significant about it. When we learn history, and about historical figures, we learn about their lives and identities. George Washington was a slave holder, I learned that in school. I also learned that Rosa Parks was a black woman, that Helen Keller was deaf and blind, that the Loving couple was interracial, that railroad workers in this state were Chinese, that the Chinese were excluded from many things by the federal government, that Sitting Bull was a Sioux; I can go on and on about history lessons I was taught in which IDENTITY played a key role in the lesson plan. So yea, I think when schools talk about the March on Washington and mention Bayard Rustin, they should say that not only was he an accomplished black civil rights activist, but that he was also a gay man.
"We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge."

RFK

#18 caligirlz

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 09:47 PM

Again, I gave you examples of historical figures and moments and asked you what was significant about it. When we learn history, and about historical figures, we learn about their lives and identities. George Washington was a slave holder, I learned that in school. I also learned that Rosa Parks was a black woman, that Helen Keller was deaf and blind, that the Loving couple was interracial, that railroad workers in this state were Chinese, that the Chinese were excluded from many things by the federal government, that Sitting Bull was a Sioux; I can go on and on about history lessons I was taught in which IDENTITY played a key role in the lesson plan. So yea, I think when schools talk about the March on Washington and mention Bayard Rustin, they should say that not only was he an accomplished black civil rights activist, but that he was also a gay man.


swmr, here's the difference, not one of the examples you cite above include a reference to one's sexual preference.... NONE of these people made history for THAT reason.

I'm fine with noting that "Bayard Rustin, was an accomplished black civil rights activist", but disagree that I need to know that he was also a homosexual man. I think it's apparent that most of us (here on this forum) accept people as they are, gayness & whatever else, so that's not the issue. Calling out the sexual preference of historical figures makes absolutely NO difference, except to your community. If you all want that kind of info documented, why don't you write your own history books instead of expecting the California and the non-LGBT taxpayers to foot the bill? The non-LGBT community does not want this information shoved down our throats.

#19 swmr545

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 10:39 PM

swmr, here's the difference, not one of the examples you cite above include a reference to one's sexual preference.... NONE of these people made history for THAT reason.

I'm fine with noting that "Bayard Rustin, was an accomplished black civil rights activist", but disagree that I need to know that he was also a homosexual man. I think it's apparent that most of us (here on this forum) accept people as they are, gayness & whatever else, so that's not the issue. Calling out the sexual preference of historical figures makes absolutely NO difference, except to your community. If you all want that kind of info documented, why don't you write your own history books instead of expecting the California and the non-LGBT taxpayers to foot the bill? The non-LGBT community does not want this information shoved down our throats.


I disagree with your premise that sexual orientation isn't talked about already. When and were did you learn that MLK was married? Where did you learn that Mr. Loving and his wife filed a lawsuit to overturn the interracial marriage ban?

Where did you learn about George Washington's wife and Abraham Lincoln's (although there's some who believe that Lincoln was at least bisexual)? How about FDR and his wife?

Our students are already "taught" the sexual orientation of individuals in history. You and others just don't associate that learning about these married individuals amounts to learning about their sexual orientations.
"We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge."

RFK

#20 caligirlz

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:30 AM

I disagree with your premise that sexual orientation isn't talked about already. ok, we can agree to disagree. I think it's more a matter of interpretation. When and were did you learn that MLK was married? probably school, don't remember when Where did you learn that Mr. Loving and his wife filed a lawsuit to overturn the interracial marriage ban? never heard of Mr Loving

Where did you learn about George Washington's wife and Abraham Lincoln's (although there's some who believe that Lincoln was at least bisexual)? How about FDR and his wife? Don't know what you are talking about

Our students (who's students, what are you talking about "our" students, the LGBT students???) are already "taught" the sexual orientation of individuals in history. You and others just don't associate that learning about these married individuals amounts to learning about their sexual orientations. That's right, because it is only the gay lobby that has emphasized SEXUAL ORIENTATION, and SEX. Why does the LGBT community have to sexualize everything?

Probably because as a 20-something, you were being taught with books filled with revised history that focused on sexual orientation. I do recall hearing about these "controversial" topics (rumor about Lincoln) long after I graduated...over course, times were different 200 years ago, so history has been twisted to make it look like Lincoln was bi.


And again, marital status was incidental in relationship to what an individual did to be a historical figure, when I went to school. Marital status being equivalent to sexual orientation, as you describe wasn't taught.

LGBT studies are already being taught in California schools, and have been for some time.

I think you are focused on this because of your age & involvement with the LGBT community.

#21 The Average Joe

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:03 AM

I would much rather have students know about the lend-lease program than somebody's sexual orientation. Same for the Constitution, Indian land grab, civil war, etc.

Read this Poll shows younger Americans clueless on history

And then explain to me why we should focus on a particular groups self-esteem issues by promoting their history when KIDS DON"T EVEN KNOW WHAT 4TH OF JULY IS FOR. Our schools are FAILING at the BASICS. You don't add fluff when you are incompetent in the basics.

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#22 Homer

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:57 AM

Forcing this issue into school curriculum is an unwanted intrusion into peoples lives. I should not have to explain to my 7 year old who Harvey Milk is or what transgender means or why someone has two momies/daddies. He has no concept of any of this nor should he. Mark Leno and Gov. Brown's lives to my knowledge have never revolved around raising kids, Otherwise they would understand why this is so intrusive.

#23 rpo

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:00 AM

Forcing this issue into school curriculum is an unwanted intrusion into peoples lives. I should not have to explain to explain to my 7 year old who Harvey Milk is or what transgender means or why someone has two momies/daddies. He has no concept of any of this nor should he. Mark Leno and Gov. Brown's lives to my knowledge have never revolved around raising kids, Otherwise they would understand why this is so intrusive.


And in what school do you think they teach about Harvey Milk or any other political figure at the age of seven? Don't be ridiculous!

#24 Homer

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 11:11 AM

And in what school do you think they teach about Harvey Milk or any other political figure at the age of seven? Don't be ridiculous!

I don't know whether any schools currently celebrate Harvey Milk Day, As i have not looked into this. As a matter of fact kids do start learning about civil rights leaders and political figures prior to seven. My son started learning about Washington, Lincoln and Martin Luther King in pre-school. So it's not that far fetched. Do you agree that grade school is too early to celebrate Harvey Milk day in the schools ?

#25 momof1

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 04:11 PM

I have gay friends, I have gay co-workers, I don't have any problems with gays getting married. Call me a prude if you want, but I don't want my child to learn about gays in school. I believe sex ed in school only talks about how babies are made. I don't think they are taught about oral sex, doggie position, knocker screwing etc (God I hope not, I know they didn't teach that stuff when I was in school), and I don't think they should be teaching about gays, bestiality, self gratification, use of toys, or etc either.

#26 rpo

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 07:09 PM

I don't know whether any schools currently celebrate Harvey Milk Day, As i have not looked into this. As a matter of fact kids do start learning about civil rights leaders and political figures prior to seven. My son started learning about Washington, Lincoln and Martin Luther King in pre-school. So it's not that far fetched. Do you agree that grade school is too early to celebrate Harvey Milk day in the schools ?


I do believe the sexuality should be left out, which is kind of a catch-22 with Harvey Milk. He is a celebrated politician because he climbed up the political ladder during a time when LGBT's were even more discriminated against that they are now. That makes it somewhat tough to teach about him if you leave out the sexual aspect of his life.

I do not know of anyone learning much about other political leaders before the age of 10, so your statement about pre-school is surprising to me.

#27 (The Dude)

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 12:10 PM

I'm curious why it's not enough to honor a person for their historical contributions by just their name, not sexual orientation too.

Why is sexual orientation historically significant and so important it needs to be immediately added to all school books and classes? I'm not anti-gay, I just don't see how this helps gays get more civil rights.

Heck, the way some colonists dressed in those fancy outfits and wigs way back then, I already figured half were gay anyways. (straight guys have zero fashion sense).

I liked learning about Ben Franklin and his contributions to this country, but looking back I don't see how it would have been important or helpful to learn also about his sexual orientation and many affairs.

#28 rpo

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 06:41 PM

I'm curious why it's not enough to honor a person for their historical contributions by just their name, not sexual orientation too.

Why is sexual orientation historically significant and so important it needs to be immediately added to all school books and classes? I'm not anti-gay, I just don't see how this helps gays get more civil rights.

Heck, the way some colonists dressed in those fancy outfits and wigs way back then, I already figured half were gay anyways. (straight guys have zero fashion sense).

I liked learning about Ben Franklin and his contributions to this country, but looking back I don't see how it would have been important or helpful to learn also about his sexual orientation and many affairs.


The main reason to mention someone's sexuality is to showcase that they helped overcome discrimination against their sexual orientation. (IE: Harvey Milk)

The other reason is to teach children that just because someone is a minority (for whatever reason), that does not limit what they can accomplish.

#29 momof1

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 07:36 PM

The main reason to mention someone's sexuality is to showcase that they helped overcome discrimination against their sexual orientation. (IE: Harvey Milk)

The other reason is to teach children that just because someone is a minority (for whatever reason), that does not limit what they can accomplish.

When it comes to sexual orientation, I think that is a lesson best not taught to children, they can learn that when they are older. As children, they should learn about the things they can readily see, like a black president, a female asian astronaut, a hispanic doctor, a native american indian scientist, etc. NOT that they choose to have sex in a manner that doesn't lead to procreation. Some topics are not for children, being Gay is one of those IMO.

#30 swmr545

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 07:48 PM

When it comes to sexual orientation, I think that is a lesson best not taught to children, they can learn that when they are older. As children, they should learn about the things they can readily see, like a black president, a female asian astronaut, a hispanic doctor, a native american indian scientist, etc. NOT that they choose to have sex in a manner that doesn't lead to procreation. Some topics are not for children, being Gay is one of those IMO.



A couple wanted to get married. Some people walked across a bridge, another person learned how to write, some people sat on a bus, another person was elected as president, someone else wanted to vote, some other people went to a beach, another person preached about love and acceptance, two people were assassinated.

Why do we need to learn these individuals identities? Because it gives context as to why they are important historical figures. Who they were is just as important as to the contributions they made to society.
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I've a question for you, does your sexual activity equate to your sexual orientation? Can you identify as straight and not have sex? Or is the sexual activity the definition of your orientation?
"We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge."

RFK




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