43 replies to this topic

[traceyl]

Very impressive!

Already got our tickets for STOMP!

[Rich_T]

There's an article in today's Telegraph about the Three Stages lineup. I was upset that there were no local acts interspersed with the touring acts, since this is supposed to be a community arts center. Then my wife showed me the brochure, and there are lots of local acts, too. The only thing that bugs me now is that the local acts apparently have to pay a hefty fee to use the facilities (my wife knows people who told her that).

So did we fund the center with tax/bond dollars? If so, shouldn't local acts not be charged to perform there? Also, to whom do the profits go, if taxpayers indeed funded the project? Or were there other, private funding sources? If the center is considered a "business", then it should have purely private funding. But if it's a public good, like the library, then it should not be "for profit", and local acts in particular should not be charged to use the facility, rather ticket prices should cover the associated costs.

Does anyone know about how all this works?

[4thgenFolsomite]

There's an article in today's Telegraph about the Three Stages lineup. I was upset that there were no local acts interspersed with the touring acts, since this is supposed to be a community arts center. Then my wife showed me the brochure, and there are lots of local acts, too. The only thing that bugs me now is that the local acts apparently have to pay a hefty fee to use the facilities (my wife knows people who told her that).

So did we fund the center with tax/bond dollars? If so, shouldn't local acts not be charged to perform there? Also, to whom do the profits go, if taxpayers indeed funded the project? Or were there other, private funding sources? If the center is considered a "business", then it should have purely private funding. But if it's a public good, like the library, then it should not be "for profit", and local acts in particular should not be charged to use the facility, rather ticket prices should cover the associated costs.

Does anyone know about how all this works?

I know they raised funds for this for years to get it built. And that it cost a ton of money and is, no doubt, very expensive to maintain. It's part of the school and the students get to use the smaller stages on a regular basis. I think the ticket prices are very reasonable. And its a great venue for local groups too. I am sure the telegraph and/or bee had articles on how it was funded.

[Rich_T]

I am sure the telegraph and/or bee had articles on how it was funded.

So off I went to Google. Here's what I found out:

http://www.villagelife.com/entertainment/stunning-flc-arts-center-now-open/

"Construction of the center began in July 2008 with financial support from a State Educational Facilities General Obligation Bond, Local Measure A Bond, other district resources, and donations to the Folsom Lake College Foundation.

“The Los Rios Community College District has always been a proud supporter of the arts,” said District Chancellor Dr. Brice Harris. “The support of our community through the approval of local bonds made this project possible and we honor that support and look forward to meeting the educational and performing arts needs of our region for decades to come.”

So, though there was mention of donations, it seems to be mostly current and future taxpayers who are footing the bill to keep it going, however local acts are also forced to pay a hefty fee to perform there, and I have no idea how ticket proceeds are shared between the act and the venue. I guarantee that someone is trying to maximize profit somewhere in this chain, and yet I view the center as a not-for-profit public good. My point is that they could support the arts a lot better in our community by not charging the acts to perform.

[Robert Giacometti]

I know they raised funds for this for years to get it built. And that it cost a ton of money and is, no doubt, very expensive to maintain. It's part of the school and the students get to use the smaller stages on a regular basis. I think the ticket prices are very reasonable. And its a great venue for local groups too. I am sure the telegraph and/or bee had articles on how it was funded.

Didn't the City of Folsom make a sizable donation ( something like $500,000) a few years go when we had a large surplus?

[Robert Giacometti]

So off I went to Google. Here's what I found out:

http://www.villagelife.com/entertainment/stunning-flc-arts-center-now-open/

So, though there was mention of donations, it seems to be mostly current and future taxpayers who are footing the bill to keep it going, however local acts are also forced to pay a hefty fee to perform there, and I have no idea how ticket proceeds are shared between the act and the venue. I guarantee that someone is trying to maximize profit somewhere in this chain, and yet I view the center as a not-for-profit public good. My point is that they could support the arts a lot better in our community by not charging the acts to perform.

My understanding is that when Gov't runs these programs they can only charge for the actual cost of running these programs and are NOT supposed to charge more and use those funds for other things, when facilities are built with Tax dollars.

However, another group could rent the facility and charge market rate for tickets and keep the profit...if any.

It would be interesting to see the methodology used in determing prices and rates for this building use. I've offered wondered why this process hasn't been legally challenged?

[Steve Heard]

....The only thing that bugs me now is that the local acts apparently have to pay a hefty fee to use the facilities (my wife knows people who told her that).

...So did we fund the center with tax/bond dollars? If so, shouldn't local acts not be charged to perform there? Also, to whom do the profits go, if taxpayers indeed funded the project? Or were there other, private funding sources? If the center is considered a "business", then it should have purely private funding. But if it's a public good, like the library, then it should not be "for profit", and local acts in particular should not be charged to use the facility, rather ticket prices should cover the associated costs.

Does anyone know about how all this works?

I don't know the intricacies of it all, but there are 3 different theaters, or 'stages', hence the name. The way I understand it is that the largest is for the large touring acts, the mid-sized one for regional acts such as the symphony, and the smallest for the college productions.

As for whether or not local acts should be charged, I don't think that is the case. The promoters or organizations wishing to put on an event should be charged. There are staffing and utility costs, to name a couple. If these organizations go any where else they'd have to rent the facility, so why not the brand new theater?

So off I went to Google. Here's what I found out:

http://www.villagelife.com/entertainment/stunning-flc-arts-center-now-open/

"Construction of the center began in July 2008 with financial support from a State Educational Facilities General Obligation Bond, Local Measure A Bond, other district resources, and donations to the Folsom Lake College Foundation.

“The Los Rios Community College District has always been a proud supporter of the arts,” said District Chancellor Dr. Brice Harris. “The support of our community through the approval of local bonds made this project possible and we honor that support and look forward to meeting the educational and performing arts needs of our region for decades to come.”

So, though there was mention of donations, it seems to be mostly current and future taxpayers who are footing the bill to keep it going, however local acts are also forced to pay a hefty fee to perform there, and I have no idea how ticket proceeds are shared between the act and the venue. I guarantee that someone is trying to maximize profit somewhere in this chain, and yet I view the center as a not-for-profit public good. My point is that they could support the arts a lot better in our community by not charging the acts to perform.

I don't know how we define 'hefty', but again, if someone wants to put on a show at the local theater, they should have to rent it.

How is this different from someone renting space to sell cars or host a basketball tournament at the high school? How about for having a wedding at the community center? A fundraiser at the pool? A reserved spot for a group picnic at the park?

[Dave at Three Stages]

I was asked to chime in to provide a little scoop on how the center works with community event producers.

Yes, all “Partner Organizations” using the Three Stages facility are charged a basic rental fee for use -- similar to what happens if a community group rents a school facility, park facility, city or county facility, etc. The specific rental rates were set based on a preliminary analysis of anticipated operating costs, plus a survey of rental rates for similar facilities throughout the region, together with a sensitivity as to what local community organizations could reasonably afford (one of the missions of the center is to provide a home for local arts organizations to perform in). Weekday rental rates (M-Th) are cheaper than weekends, to provide a break on pricing for rehearsals or for groups with a strong price sensitivity. Nonprofits groups receive a break on rentals as compared to commercial event producers, but all groups get the ticket revenue they earn less the costs they incur in using the facility.

In addition to the basic rental fee, groups need to cover the costs of custodial, technical staff, ticketing services, etc. on a pay-as-you-go basis. Every effort has been made to make the venues “turn-key” with state-of-the-art sound, lighting and theater equipment included in the basic rental cost, as well as umbrella marketing through the website and season brochure to support what everyone is doing.

There are arts organizations around the world that would die to get into a venue like this with this kind of support, and generally those community groups here that have “taken the plunge” to get plugged in and try the Center on for size are happy that they did – just ask the Folsom Symphony and Community Concert Association folks, they’re selling out shows like never before and the audiences that are coming out to see them, as well as the artists themselves, are having a great time and asking for more. That’s why we now have the difficult problem of trying to find enough dates for all the local groups that want to use the facility.

While each group using Three Stages is being asked to cover some of the prorated costs associated with their use, the reality is that arts centers like this never turn a profit and rely heavily on contributions from members of the community who believe in what the Arts Center is doing, that having a facility like Three Stages and its programs significantly improves the quality of life for the community. Sponsorships from local businesses also help tremendously. Such contributions and sponsorships are what make it possible for ticket prices to be kept low enough for the average Joe to see a show and nonprofit rental rates to be kept low enough for our nonprofit community organizations to use the Center on a regular basis.

Hope this helps.

Dave Pier, Executive Director for Three Stages at Folsom Lake College

[Rich_T]

Steve, renting the space to cover legitimate costs is one thing, and I suspect that ticket sales alone could reimburse those costs. Of your examples, I would not understand why a reserved group picnic incurs a fee, either, since that is public property and there are no associated costs, provided people throw away their trash.

The reason I may seem to be overly annoyed has to do with my observation of high schools renting out their school theater (and thus probably other facilities), all of which have already been paid for by taxes, to local young performing arts groups, largely composed of local school kids, who have much trouble to come up with the money. The rent far exceeds legitimate operating costs, which again could be easily handled by ticket sales. Instead, the rents are set at the school district level, and are all about making up for budget shortfalls in the state school system. To put it bluntly, instead of encouraging youth performances by opening up the theater, the district is forcing groups to pay an unfair rent, or not put on a show. The district treats it as revenue that is part of their planning process. I have to therefore wonder if the same is happening at Three Stages, although I hope that their business model is independent of state budget considerations.

Maybe tesseica can weigh in on why the school district charges high rents for community groups, instead of having them only cover the actual associated costs. I have to believe it's all about getting revenue any which way they can.

[Edit note: I had heard that it cost something like $12,000 to rent Folsom High School's theater for a few performances. The following link suggests that I may have heard wrong: http://www.fcusd.org...s/2010Hand.pdf]

[Rich_T]

Thanks, Dave, your reply came while I was busy replying to Steve.

For me, it's simple: the rent should cover the total operating costs, which include prorated equipment depreciation, marketing, salaries, etc, as well as the custodial and other items you mentioned. Then ticket sales can be used to reimburse the performing organization that paid the rent.

What you are saying is that rents are set low enough to encourage local groups to "take the plunge", even while not truly covering all fixed and variable costs, such that ongoing donations are required to keep things going. If that is so, then I have no problem. Whereas the "similar rent to what a school would charge" argument does not impress me, because I believe they overcharge to make up for budget shortfalls in the school system (see my last post).

I just want to be sure that Three Stages, which was paid for with tax dollars and donations, does not now exist to make a profit, unless said profits are used to make improvements.

I just hope that any community arts production will not feel priced out of the venue. I wonder what it actually costs to fire up Stage 2 or 3, on an otherwise vacant night, and if that rental price is an honest reflection of the true cost. I hope so.

As you can tell, my concerns in this forum are centered around what you mentioned: "one of the missions of the center is to provide a home for local arts organizations to perform in". I hope that rental policies are truly allowing you to serve that mission. I trust they are.

Thanks for taking the time to provide the information. Good luck with Three Stages.

[SacKen]

"Blast!"

It's drumline/college marching band on steroids. We saw it when it passed through as part of the Sacramento Broadway Series years ago. Very entertaining if you're into that sort of thing. I've been waiting years for it to return to the area!

[4thgenFolsomite]

we just got tickets for spamalot and the christmas choral. LOVE three stages!!!!! I bet the local restaurants do too!!!

[cw68]

I liked the line-up there were two performances that I can't purchase right now because I can't guarantee the dates will work for me this far out, but I did pick up tickets to Rogers & Hammerstein's Oklahoma! on discount night for me and the kids. Tickets were $14.50. Very reasonable for a show for kids. They haven't seen a big musical production, haven't seen much live theater at all. I'm excited I was easily able to afford to bring them one night. And ALL seats are $14.50. We are sitting front row orchestra.

[Deb aka Resume Lady]

I liked the line-up there were two performances that I can't purchase right now because I can't guarantee the dates will work for me this far out, but I did pick up tickets to Rogers & Hammerstein's Oklahoma! on discount night for me and the kids. Tickets were $14.50. Very reasonable for a show for kids. They haven't seen a big musical production, haven't seen much live theater at all. I'm excited I was easily able to afford to bring them one night. And ALL seats are $14.50. We are sitting front row orchestra.

If the shows you want to see are likely to sell out, you could consider buying the tickets and selling them later if you find you can't attend. Just a thought.

[Steve Heard]

I am really looking forward to seeing Eddie Palmieri and Bobby Hutcherson.