27 replies to this topic

[tony]

What's there to worry about on the bike trails these days?

http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-woman-reports-assault-along-bike-trail-suspect-found-at-target-20121002,0,3469794.story

There have been two incidents on Folsom's bike paths in the past couple of years, and I can recall none before that. How many people have been killed or maimed on Folsom's roads in that time? I can count a couple of fatalities and almost daily injury crashes. Perspective is valuable and helps keep us from being unduly afraid of the wrong risks. But, unfortunately, running alone as dusk in open space areas of a city of 60,000 people presents some risk.

[tony]

I've been thinking about this quite a lot lately. (See my exchanges with Tony in the "Idiot Bicyclist" thread.) We have rules that are usually far in excess of what is needed in a particular situation. So the driver rolled through a stop sign or the cyclist was riding on the sidewalk, what did it matter if there was no one around?

I think that collectively we've decided that our individual judgement, developed hunting prey and avoiding big cats and not getting poisoned by eating the wrong plant, is not up to the task of navigating modern traffic. Your 55mph tunnel vision is focused on the lights and the cars going along with you and not looking too hard for cross traffic or pedestrians which are a much smaller immediate threat to you. So we've codified a system of manners to keep ourselves from causing wrecks in spite of this: stop at the stop sign. Manners in a social group are enforced by the group. But a car takes an individual far from his social group to where he can be a sociopath without much consequence. If he runs a stop sign when he is visiting New York, who does he know in Folsom that will ever find out? So we have it enforced by our government, the larger social construct.

Which is how society is different from a family in general, I guess.

Darth is right on. But, less eloquently and more to the point, for those of us who actually travel about town outside of cars, we are daily confronted by drivers who fail to yield. And, yes, it is dangerous, especially in front of a school! It happens almost every time I cross Blue Ravine on the Folsom Parkway Rail Trail; drivers making a right turn on red from WB Blue Ravine to NB Folsom Blvd. almost never stop at the stop bar, even with children on bikes in the marked crossing.

The cavalier attitude expressed by Andy about victimless crimes is exactly the self-centered attitude that results in bicyclists and pedestrians getting hit, and the driver claiming they "came out of nowhere". They appear to have come out of nowhere because the driver who wasn't planning on stopping also didn't bother to use appropriate care in looking out for others. When we decide which laws we choose to obey and which ones we choose not to, we are on a slippery slope to anarchy. On our roads, we are darn near there already. As Darth suggested, we have laws regarding personal behavior to cover the fact that people cannot always be counted upon to act in a manner that considers the adverse impact of their actions on others.

[mac_convert]

Actually it is during the time the slip session Kindergartners come to school so yes it is a deal. I spoke with one of the parents today and she was going to call in the concern.

Was anyone honestly endangered? I really fail to see the importance of obsessing over the quality of someons's stop at a sign.

[caligirlz]

I counted 8 out of 11 cars that rolled right through the stop sign as they turned right from Stewart to Willard in a 10 minute period today from 9:45am-9:55am. One of the three cars came to a full stop before the white line and the other two fully stopped, but after they crossed the white line. If our city is truly in economic distress they should post a police officer down the way on Willard to catch all of the people who don't stop. I didn't include the people who didn't stop at the stop sign when they turned right from Willard onto Stewart.

I used to live in that neighborhood. It was absolute chaos in the morning, especially behind the Iron Point Apartments heading towards Prairie City, and all the crazy parents trying to get in & out of the Phoenix School.

I think a police presence would help a lot. I love the PD hanging out on the streets in my new neighborhood near Folsom Lake College. They park on Lothian Way & watch for speeders & stop sign runners at Cavitt Drive, and I see them cruising Scholar... even I have to be careful!!

[caligirlz]

Darth is right on. But, less eloquently and more to the point, for those of us who actually travel about town outside of cars, we are daily confronted by drivers who fail to yield. And, yes, it is dangerous, especially in front of a school! It happens almost every time I cross Blue Ravine on the Folsom Parkway Rail Trail; drivers making a right turn on red from WB Blue Ravine to NB Folsom Blvd. almost never stop at the stop bar, even with children on bikes in the marked crossing.

That's for sure. Tonight I was heading out to EDH, sitting in the left turn lane (the one of the right) onto E Bidwell, and cars in the left hand lane (next to me), cut all the way across 3 lanes in front of me to take the South on 50 ramp...without a signal. It was apparent they were trying to beat the herd out of the gate, but so rude & unnecessary. It's a disaster waiting to happen for someone not paying attention. I see this type of thing ALL the time around Folsom, and elsewhere.

[Darth Lefty]

It doesn't help that almost no one in the whole country can figure out when it's his turn at the stop sign.

[tony]

That's because too many fools insist on being first instead of giving the right of way to the driver on the right as it's noted in the DMV driving manual.

The problem is too many people are self centered and in a G-DAMN hurry all the time.

Exactly! My particular pet peeve is those who will stop 15 ft short of the crosswalk so they can be "first".

[cw68]

Exactly! My particular pet peeve is those who will stop 15 ft short of the crosswalk so they can be "first".

My pet peeve is those who stop well into the crosswalk making pedestrians walk around their car.

[supermom]

There is a very large platform bump near my house. I love it. Eff drag racers every weekend. Mini- motor bikes, the whole shi - bang...Now they slow to keep from gutting vehicles and shredding their chrome.

[ducky]

My pet peeve is those who stop well into the crosswalk making pedestrians walk around their car.

I've lowered my expectations. Now, I'm just happy if they stop. One guy went swinging around to make a right at Blue Ravine and E. Bidwell while I was crossing and couldn't see me because of traffic. I stopped because I anticipated that he wouldn't stop behind the limit line first.

He actually tried to be nice and back up for me, but I was thinking, Dude, it would be too late if I were a kid that just assumed people would stop.

[mac_convert]

Drivers be aware because there will be increased patrol in this area, almost exactly in the area Caligirlz is talking about. I do see patrols during the morning traffic jam on occasion, but I think drivers become lackadaisical because they think the kids are IN school.

I used to live in that neighborhood. It was absolute chaos in the morning, especially behind the Iron Point Apartments heading towards Prairie City, and all the crazy parents trying to get in & out of the Phoenix School.

I think a police presence would help a lot. I love the PD hanging out on the streets in my new neighborhood near Folsom Lake College. They park on Lothian Way & watch for speeders & stop sign runners at Cavitt Drive, and I see them cruising Scholar... even I have to be careful!!