30 replies to this topic

[Steve Heard]

I thought we were pretty much done with this round of changes, except for the railroad area.  I wouldn't know what else could be done.

 

My take is that, as Folsom has grown and developed more and more competing areas, Sutter St. will never be more than it is now:  a place that some people choose to frequent by day, and others by night, but which will never again be a shopping mecca.  I personally go there for  four reasons:  (1) to have a leisurely Farmer's Market visit on random Saturday mornings, followed by a stroll along Sutter (but no shopping except the produce); (2) to go to Hop Sing's two or three times a year on a weeknight; (3) to very rarely check out one of the other eateries (I would say Snooks, too, but I'm on a diet); (4) to attend rare events (not Folsom Live), such as the Christmas tree lighting.  All in all, I seem to find myself strolling along Sutter once a month or so, but I don't buy anything from the shops.  Yet I wouldn't know what else to do with Sutter St., unless it became a full-on Wild West re-creation (like Columbia), for two blocks, which I sincerely doubt would ever be done.

 

All of the reasons you visit are great ones. There is something for everyone. There's the history museum and pioneer village, a fair amount of restaurants and bars, clothing shops, home decor, art, and specialty foods.

 

I go there probably once per week or more, whether it's coffee at the Black Rooster, a drink at Scarlet's (6-8pm $5 martinis), getting candy from Snook's (heading there shortly to pick up some Habanero Salted Caramel to take to my sister), pizza, breakfast at Sutter Grill, or a play, I truly enjoy hanging out down there. 

 

 

Geesh, I guess nature isn't pretty enough unless we manicure it.

 

If the idea is getting families to Sutter St., I think a nice fountain with benches would have been one way to entice them to visit.  Last time I was in Savannah the riverfront looked kind of depressed, lots of bars and restaurants.  In contrast, Ellis Square was buzzing with activity and a lot of families out enjoying an evening.  I'm not entirely sure little ones and a cold, fast-moving river are the best mix.  Plus, there is the traffic noise up above from Lake Natoma Crossing.

 

The problem with access to the lake is one can't do it without a lengthy walk or getting dirty. I think the plaza on the railroad block will become more of an attraction as it is built out.

[Steve Heard]

One more thing...

 

A place to hear live jazz.

 

We spend so much time, money and energy on our youth jazz programs, but no where for them to play as adults or for us to listen.

[cw68]

 

 

Prove these assertions with actual published police or FBI  records.

Tell the neighbors to Sutter St.   your ideas and surveys.    Show us the proof that  over 27 alcohol licenses on two blocks of 15' wide lanes is BETTER than following the city codes and Standards.

 

Best of all, tell my neighbor who bought one of those lofts on Sutter, hated every noisy minute, piss-filled streets, fighting, fornicating, and all forms of property crime.    They sold and got outta there fast.   So show us your quoted evidence from a valid source.

 

 

First of all, I request that you not be so aggressive towards me. Frankly, it's uncalled for and not appropriate, just like it would be if I demanded you prove your claim that it's a recipe for disaster and problems. 

 

Proof? Here's some: https://www.law.upen...1U.Pa.L.Rev.699(2013).pdf

http://jrc.sagepub.c...6.full.pdf html (or this article so you don't have to sign in http://www.citymayor...ing-cities.html)

 

For years, urban design has leaned towards mixed-use neighborhoods for good reason. 

http://online.wsj.co...206873179427496

 

http://ideas.time.co...of-the-suburbs/

[john]

I am particularly interested in seeing some of the old shops and such restored (over by the Telegraph), but I don't envision it being much more than it is now.

 

I think the area down by Lake Natoma Inn sure could use some love. The hotel itself is in desperate need of a makeover (it is pretty stale and dated inside), and the entire center has quite a few vacancies. Compared to other hotels in Folsom, I think Lake Natoma Inn is only holding on because of its location. I wouldn't recommend anyone stay there unless they wanted to be close to Old Town.

[SCA]

I love Sutter Street! I love the shops, especially Not Too Shabby and Gracefully Vintage. My kids love Snooks, especially after a couple of hours at the ice rink in the winter. We went to Chicago Fire two weeks ago and were seated immediately, we would have waited 30+ minutes at the Palladio location. I think the Sutter Street steakhouse is great and the building is beautiful. We haven't made it to Hampton's yet but it's on my list. Neither my husband or I drink much but The Fat Rabbit has a great atmosphere and is family friendly. I think the lofts and mixed use buildings will be a great addition.

[Sandra Lunceford]

I was just in Savannah and felt the same way.  I will not be going back.

[maestro]

Maestro wrote:  Prove these assertions with actual published police or FBI  records.

Tell the neighbors to Sutter St.   your ideas and surveys.    Show us the proof that  over 27 alcohol licenses on two blocks of 15' wide lanes is BETTER than following the city codes and Standards.

 

Best of all, tell my neighbor who bought one of those lofts on Sutter, hated every noisy minute, piss-filled streets, fighting, fornicating, and all forms of property crime.    They sold and got outta there fast.   So show us your quoted evidence from a valid source.

 

 

First of all, I request that you not be so aggressive towards me. Frankly, it's uncalled for and not appropriate, just like it would be if I demanded you prove your claim that it's a recipe for disaster and problems. 

 

Proof? Here's some: https://www.law.upen...1U.Pa.L.Rev.699(2013).pdf

http://jrc.sagepub.c...6.full.pdf html (or this article so you don't have to sign in http://www.citymayor...ing-cities.html)

 

For years, urban design has leaned towards mixed-use neighborhoods for good reason. 

http://online.wsj.co...206873179427496

 

http://ideas.time.co...of-the-suburbs/

 

If you think a request for facts is "aggressive" - that says something about you not me.

I checked all your sites.   The Wall Street Journal site was best:

 

Crime Migrates to Suburbs

Thank you for proving you do not have actual Law Enforcement nor FBI facts to prove your "rebuttal" of my comments.

Thank you for evidence supporting my stance.

 

You want more hard evidence:   view 4sewerdogs channel at Youtube.   Look at the folsom city projects and private housing developments which were STOPPED and abandoned.    Go tour Parkshore Drive where huge housing project was shut down.

 

As for the recipe for disaster:  I have hard evidence (public documents) about water supply, and a DIScontinuous a 27" sewage mainline.   Can you believe a council trying to serve over 200,000 residents & businesses & school & prison occupants with a 27" mainline?     

 

THE FACTS  are AGGRESSIVE and you need to stop shooting the messenger with the truth.    City is under investigation NOW for water pollution, diversions, and avoidance of Process.    

 

Don't you wonder why our great council re-election candidates HAVE NOTHING TO SAY in response to water and sewage and street problems?

Thanks for proving my point:    wrong-doing loves suburbs with vacant land to develop.

[Redone]

Folsom has 200,000 people ? Maestro you have some crazy facts. Also the width of Sutter st was designed in mid 1800s so why go on and on like you do ?

[Rich_T]

Redone, please don't bring down the quality of discussion by pointing out one item, then extrapolating it to try and dismiss all the long posts as "crazy facts".  (Plus, maestro just explained below why 200,000 is not crazy.  But let's use even 100,000, and move on with the discussion.)

 

A short-response put-down does not close the case on those who raise issues.  That's the politician's way out.

 

Maybe you'd like to also take a stab at dismissing as "crazy" the comments that Phoenix2014 mentioned on another thread, which I will repeat here:

 

• They have already stolen our water putting us in a permanent state of drought (ignoring their own Measure W and the EIR)
• They have already stated they want to reduce the 30% open space (ignoring their own Measure W, and likely the EIR)
• They have already indicated they will be going after the $700 million school bond to make sure WE share in the cost to build the new schools
• They have already indicated they have no plans for mitigating the severe traffic impacts that will hit north of 50 streets and intersections ( the traffic analysis and EIR indicate Level of service F ( gridlock) at many locations.
• We already have the worst smog in the valley - factual, look it up - and are the main reason the region cannot meet air quality standards - the Air Resources Board stated that with development South of 50, their plans to reach regional air quality standards are shot since Folsom will not be able to get there.

Is it just more craziness?

 

If not, then what about it?  Not interested?

[maestro]

Folsom has 200,000 people ? Maestro you have some crazy facts. Also the width of Sutter st was designed in mid 1800s so why go on and on like you do ?

 

Fact:   the plans for the Folsom Plan Area south of 50, about 6,000 acres in total  exist as council approved them.   We are already in trouble with at least 100,000 coming into the dense zoning council approved.    Current city population exceeds 75,000, NOT counting the three prisons.

 

The FPA plans include FPA receiving American River water AND  sending all of their sewage NORTH under highway 50 to connect to the city's  connection to Regional Sanitation.        Given the very dense zoning given to FPA, times the number of acres, you see the council has ALREADY APPROVED  zoning for a bare minimum of 125,000 occupants.   

 

FPA is much larger than the existing city, so with much denser zoning, their population added to current population would be at LEAST 200,000 flushers trying to squeeze their sewage into the 27" Folsom mainline along the American River.

 

As for 1850's Sutter Street, yes it is an old cow path-relic.    Crowds burden it, especially alcohol and outdoor entertainment --  there is no emergency access for large crowds.    City Code requires all heavy Commercial Zone Usages to be located on at least an 80 foot wide right of way.        Would you like to be the person who could not be saved in the event of a harmful issue down there?      Would you like the city council to obey all federal and state Fire Regulations and Street Design standards?     

 

Simple answer:   I care about protecting innocent human lives and our world.   I respect Rule of law.    They exist to protect all.    Why don't you ask the council why they think Sutter St. public land is to be used for private benefit?    

[cw68]

 

If you think a request for facts is "aggressive" - that says something about you not me.

I checked all your sites.   The Wall Street Journal site was best:

 

Crime Migrates to Suburbs

Thank you for proving you do not have actual Law Enforcement nor FBI facts to prove your "rebuttal" of my comments.

Thank you for evidence supporting my stance.

 

You want more hard evidence:   view 4sewerdogs channel at Youtube.   Look at the folsom city projects and private housing developments which were STOPPED and abandoned.    Go tour Parkshore Drive where huge housing project was shut down.

 

As for the recipe for disaster:  I have hard evidence (public documents) about water supply, and a DIScontinuous a 27" sewage mainline.   Can you believe a council trying to serve over 200,000 residents & businesses & school & prison occupants with a 27" mainline?     

 

THE FACTS  are AGGRESSIVE and you need to stop shooting the messenger with the truth.    City is under investigation NOW for water pollution, diversions, and avoidance of Process.    

 

Don't you wonder why our great council re-election candidates HAVE NOTHING TO SAY in response to water and sewage and street problems?

Thanks for proving my point:    wrong-doing loves suburbs with vacant land to develop.

A YouTube channel is hard evidence? LOL

 

Dude, you need to chill out and quit alienating people with your vitriol. I'm gone from this thread because nobody but you is allowed to comment or have an opinion unless it's an FBI-approved message, or is in lock-step with your opinion (yes, yours is an OPINION, perhaps educated with facts, but it's still an OPINION).

 

I am no fan of the sitting city council, but I have no desire to help you or work with you at all. This forum could be a way to unite people; instead, you've used it to lambast people. You should really remember that you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

[Sandra Lunceford]

I really appreciate all those who have contributed ideas that will bring families and revenue to Old Town Folsom.  This is generating some tremendous food for thought and I thank you for them.  What I hear is that there is a LOT to like about Sutter Street, and I totally agree.  I LOVE Sutter Street.  I do believe a river access will add a jewel in its crown and love the idea of a fountain for children.  I also agree that Natoma Inn can use a lot of love and I think focusing ideas on what to put there, as well as in the empty store fronts are helpful.   . 

 

Forgive me if I have left anything out, but in summary I hear:  add Folsom-themed gift shops with merchandise related to gold, the railroad, the prison, Johnny Cash, the lakes, toys and novelties.  I hear a shout out for effective use of our amphitheater.  What about a novice "Who's Got Talent" night there, professional musicians, or blues/jazz?  We've got some tremendous professional and novice talent right here in our city!  (Okay..that is my idea.) 

 

I was thinking a virtual interactive history experience that kids could push buttons and interact with - maybe involving the brain trust at Intel and similar businesses here in Folsom.  I LOVE Wild West shoot-outs.  Maybe we could have a whole street of Wild West Days once in awhile!  We could use more folk art and other art stores and have a regularly scheduled art walk.  There could be more sport shops there, as demand increases.  For future residents, we may add a little food shop and a hardware store, so they don't have to get into their cars.

 

What is important is to carefully craft our ideas around conserving the beauty and peace of the river and providing parking for visitors.  Maybe as we increase business there, we could increase Folsom Stage routes to the area and encourage residents to take the Light Rail.  Kids might like to experience that, too.

 

Keep the ideas coming!

[tony]

I really appreciate all those who have contributed ideas that will bring families and revenue to Old Town Folsom.  This is generating some tremendous food for thought and I thank you for them.  What I hear is that there is a LOT to like about Sutter Street, and I totally agree.  I LOVE Sutter Street.  I do believe a river access will add a jewel in its crown and love the idea of a fountain for children.  I also agree that Natoma Inn can use a lot of love and I think focusing ideas on what to put there, as well as in the empty store fronts are helpful.   . 

 

Forgive me if I have left anything out, but in summary I hear:  add Folsom-themed gift shops with merchandise related to gold, the railroad, the prison, Johnny Cash, the lakes, toys and novelties.  I hear a shout out for effective use of our amphitheater.  What about a novice "Who's Got Talent" night there, professional musicians, or blues/jazz?  We've got some tremendous professional and novice talent right here in our city!  (Okay..that is my idea.) 

 

I was thinking a virtual interactive history experience that kids could push buttons and interact with - maybe involving the brain trust at Intel and similar businesses here in Folsom.  I LOVE Wild West shoot-outs.  Maybe we could have a whole street of Wild West Days once in awhile!  We could use more folk art and other art stores and have a regularly scheduled art walk.  There could be more sport shops there, as demand increases.  For future residents, we may add a little food shop and a hardware store, so they don't have to get into their cars.

 

What is important is to carefully craft our ideas around conserving the beauty and peace of the river and providing parking for visitors.  Maybe as we increase business there, we could increase Folsom Stage routes to the area and encourage residents to take the Light Rail.  Kids might like to experience that, too.

 

Keep the ideas coming!

So, there's been lots of talk about Sutter Street and the commercial district, and as a resident of the HD, I'm happy to see the mixed use development coming -- it will help create both "eyes on the street" as CW noted, and a critical mass of residents that may be enough to support more "real" shops on Sutter Street.  But what I have not heard from anyone, and my frustration with the current council, is what the city will do to ameliorate some of the adverse affects on the residential part of the HD as the commercial district becomes more successful and more popular. Yes, they passed the entertainment district ordinance last year, which helps deal with one specific, but very real, problem that mostly affects a small group of residents along Figueroa and Scott Streets. But, even after multiple neighborhood meetings last year, the end result was that, other than the installation of one stop sign that was going to go in anyway, nothing has been done to deal with the three biggest issues for most residents: traffic, neighborhood parking (except for added restrictions for some special events) and pedestrian safety (very closely tied to traffic). More specifically, the council has refused to consider permit parking, even though it works in many similar districts nationwide, the council still refuses to even consider real neighborhood traffic calming (they don't want to make it more difficult for the cut through traffic - because people complain to council if it takes them too long to drive across town), and they won't even acknowledge that there is a pedestrian safety issue, always responding that sidewalks are controversial.  Frankly, I want a council that will deal with controversial issues, not hide from them. Sidewalks may (or may not be) controversial, but pedestrian safety IS the responsibility of the council. And, BTW, sidewalks in the HD are only controversial if you suggest that there be sidewalks on every block of every street in the HD. How about we start by building sidewalks on Riley Street between Natoma and Sutter so people can safely walk down that arterial street to the heart of the commercial district? How about we close the gap in the sidewalks along Natoma Street by the old St. John;'s cemetery (yes, you can do that without further impacting the cemetery)?  How about completing the sidewalks on Sibley between Bidwell and Blue Ravine? How about getting serious about enforcing the truck restrictions on Natoma Street?  How about enforcing the noise ordinance as it relates to motorcycles and other vehicles with modified exhausts?

[john]

Wild West shootouts would be a lot of fun. I think there should be more around this... any major event like Christmas, Night of 1000 Pumpkins, Cattle Drive, they should include a wild west shootout. Might be hard for Christmas and 1000 Pumpkins, the crowds are so large it's probably hard to manage.

[Sandra Lunceford]

Sidewalks are a very important part of safety and pedestrian use.  Lighting of the sidewalks is also very important.  Thank you for the reminder.  Permit parking is also an excellent idea, as is limiting truck thoroughfare.