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Trump-Care Reduced To A Smoldering Garbage Heap

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#16 UncleVinnys

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 09:01 PM

There is no way to spin this. The Reps have created one of the biggest "doh" moments for a party ever. You can't spend 7 years railing against a plan, attempt to repeal it umpteen times and then do nothing when you finally have control. IF they don't get off their political asses and get this done, they can kiss their majorities goodbye in 2018. Stupid is as stupid does, and they have behaved very stupidly. The dems OWNED Obamacare before this. Now, when it inevitably fails, a complicit press will lay the blame right at the feet of the Reps. They wanted the power, they promised the public they would use the power to move an agenda forward (that a majority of people supported). If they fail in that, they are toast as a party. It may very well be the needed impetus for the rise of an actual 3rd party because folks aren't thrilled with the Dems either.

 

Fortunately, there are many intelligent, decent-minded Republicans that are already talking about working with the Dems to get something passed.

 

It's the so-called Freedom Caucus who won't negotiate or budge and inch.

They are like spoiled brats and they are responsible for the demise of the Republican Party

 

A self-inflected wound.

 

http://thehill.com/p...are-repeal-plan

 

Poll: Just 17 percent of voters back ObamaCare repeal plan

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#17 2 Aces

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 07:15 AM

What is ObamaCare? It is what happens when Democrats trust a Community Organizer to put together a health care bill. Democrats=Idiots.

 

 

obamacare-cartoon-july-15-1.jpg?w=630



#18 UncleVinnys

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 08:19 AM

Then you're foolish, Vinnie. Glad that you're happy that many millions of people are suffering under ObamaCare. You're a bad person, all because of politics. Hopefully soon you'll get dealt with, if you catch my drift. Karma!

 

 

1. Actually, I think I'm kind of wise. I base my beliefs on quite popular Christian principles.
My little book has a parable about the
Good Samaritan who helped a wounded foreigner.
In that lesson we are taught to show some loving kindness to people in need.
Nothing there about building walls or kicking people off healthcare plans.

 

2. 20 million more people now have healthcare coverage, thanks to the ACA.

These are people who USED TO go to the ER for their primary care at 10X the cost.

 

3. Thinly veiled threats of violence against me have no effect whatsoever.

4. Yes, I welcome the "karma" - because, deep in my heart I know I care about other people.
(Yet another basic principle of Christianity - Do unto others . . .) The payback I will get will be positive.
I don't begrudge providing life-giving services to the needy.

 

I've got an idea.   :idea:   Let's give the Democrats to the power to enact universal health care,

and we can give the Republicans the power to go to any hospital or clinic and decide

which of these suffering individuals deserve to live, and which must die because of cost concerns.
Maybe the money-worshipers  :bowdown:   would like to volunteer for that role.  :BOO:


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#19 2 Aces

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 08:25 AM

You are in denial bigtime. Even Democrats know that costs and premiums and deductibles have skyrocketed and that ObamaCare is on life support and will crash soon. You need to get out more and quit reading the Fake News. Don't be a sucker.

 

fake_news_alert_PICTURE_2UP_large.jpg?v=



#20 Who_Do_You_Trust

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 12:18 PM

Vinny - just some thoughts on healthcare:

 

1)  The GOP wants to make healthcare a free-market system.  This is OK, except for one thing -  one of the essentials needed to make any free market work is a clear understanding of prices.  Otherwise, no one can comparison shop.  No one has any concept of pricing for healthcare products because the industry and insurance companies have made it their mission to NOT reveal pricing information.  Ask anyone if they have any idea how much certain medical products cost.  How much is it to have a baby?  How much to treat a broken leg?  How much is a kidney transplant?  No one will know.  Without this information, a free market can't work. 

 

2)  Nowhere in the ACA, nor (I suspect) in the GOP version last week is cost control addressed.  Several years ago as part of research for an article, I read the entire ACA looking for several key phrases.  One group of phrases on my list were words related to cost control.  NOWHERE in the ACA do these phrases appear:

 

     cost reduction

     cost control

     cost management

     cost discipline 

     price reduction

     price guidelines

     competitive pricing

     competitive market

 

3)  Every year, the healthcare industry introduces new technologies, along with more and more products to improve your health.  In a typical free market system, as new technologies are incorporated and more places are offering them, the prices DECREASE.  think about a big screen TV.  10 years ago, they cost $1000's.  Today they cost $100's.  But for some reason, as new tech comes to the medical industry, prices have INCREASED.  this is the main tell-tail sign that the market is highly distorted and being manipulated in large part.  

 

4)  Unless any new legislation requires transparency in pricing, and some attention to cost control, it isn't going to work.  

 

5)  Finally, the kicker - In general, people will pay anything to stay alive.  And the medical/insurance industries have figured that out.  their goal is to take your last nickel five minutes before you die.  From what I can see, they are reaching this objective more every year.  



#21 UncleVinnys

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 04:46 PM

Well said, Who.

And I agree, the kicker is #5.

 

Significantly, the happiest nations seem to be those who have taken healthcare out of the capitalist system.

If making money is the driving force, then those same companies would benefit from keeping us sick and charging more for treatment.
That's why I lean towards a non-profit, even socialist solution. (
And here some of my critics have their heads explode!)
Look at Canada, The UK, Netherlands, etc. Health care costs are about one-third what they are in the US.


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#22 Who_Do_You_Trust

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 09:51 PM

For an interesting look at Trump's view of reality vs actual reality, watch this:

 



#23 The Average Joe

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 10:10 PM

True vin. A lot of that is because of legal reasons (friggin people suing for anything)

HOWEVER, if you look at those systems, they are not so great. Yes, everyone is (technically) covered, but if you can't get in to see a doctor, that coverage is pretty much worthless.

 

For Canada (the much endorsed model for health care pointed to by libs):

 

The report shows that waits for primary and specialist care in Canada have not improved since they were first reported on in 2007. Among surveyed countries, Canada continues to have the longest wait times for older people waiting to see a doctor or nurse when they need medical attention, with more than half waiting more than 2 days, and nearly one-third (30%) waiting 6 or more days.

Older Canadians also have the longest reported wait times to see a specialist, with 25% waiting 2 months
or more for a specialist visit. Despite some variation across the country, wait times in every province were significantly higher than the international average.

Older Canadians also report more difficulties (51%) in getting care after-hours or on weekends than older people in any other country. As a result, 37% reported a visit to an emergency department for a condition that could have been treated by their regular doctor.

 

From the same report:

 

The U.K (60%) and Canada (57%) had the highest numbers of persons who had to wait four weeks or more to get to see a specialist physician. In the U.S., only 23% reported a wait of four weeks or more for specialty care...

The U.S. also did very well on measures of wait times for non-emergency or elective surgery. Only 8% of surveyed patients in the United States reported a wait time of four months or more for elective surgery, compared to 33% in Canada and 41% in the U.K.

 

The place where the US scored worst of the 6 countries was in getting after hours care WITHOUT going to the emergency room. I would submit that if you cannot wait until the next day for urgent care or a doctor's appointment, then that should be classified as a medical emergency.

 

As for the UK,  your quote about Republicans decide

which of these suffering individuals deserve to live, and which must die because of cost concerns 

rings hollow. Have you followed the news from the UK on the NHS? At all? I read UK papers all the time, and not a week goes by that there isn't some failing or trouble with the NHS... with people dying because of those same concerns. Scotland alone estimates 6 people die every day due to bad/inadequate care.

The bottom line is this. Why in the world would you give the power of healthcare decisions to some nameless, faceless, unaccountable bureaucrat instead of your local doctor? You want a national catastrophic coverage? i may be willing to listen, BUT you have to tell me how you are going to pay for it. The INDIVIDUAL is responsible for any gap coverage.

I agree with Who Do. The removal of pricing is a huge contributor to cost increases. All non-catastrophic services should be clearly labeled what they cost, so the consumer can decide where they want to get care.


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one" — Thomas Paine, 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 (1776)

 


#24 2 Aces

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 07:35 AM

These stats below are just a reminder of who the dishonest enemy is in America...Democrats AND the MSM. We really need to destroy them. The sooner the better.

 

tv_news_ignores_obamacares_death_spiral_



#25 Chris

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 05:45 PM

Vinny - just some thoughts on healthcare:

 

......

3)  Every year, the healthcare industry introduces new technologies, along with more and more products to improve your health.  In a typical free market system, as new technologies are incorporated and more places are offering them, the prices DECREASE.  think about a big screen TV.  10 years ago, they cost $1000's.  Today they cost $100's.  But for some reason, as new tech comes to the medical industry, prices have INCREASED.  this is the main tell-tail sign that the market is highly distorted and being manipulated in large part.  

 

4)  Unless any new legislation requires transparency in pricing, and some attention to cost control, it isn't going to work.  

 

5)  Finally, the kicker - In general, people will pay anything to stay alive.  And the medical/insurance industries have figured that out.  their goal is to take your last nickel five minutes before you die.  From what I can see, they are reaching this objective more every year.  

Maybe stick to snow levels at the resorts in Colorado...?  Write about what you know, not what you think you know...  This is what I do, I work in Pharma and have so for a long time.  It takes somewhere from 2.5 Billion to 5 Billion dollars to develop a new drug.  Those costs have to be recaptured in the cost of the drug eventually.  Many drugs fail to meet phase 3 trials and are not brought to market, drug companies eat those costs.   And by the way, when Obamacare was implemented they put a new tax on my company to pay for Obamacare.  The cost, or new tax, was 1.3 million dollars a day, everyday, 365 days a year....!  Who do you think paid that eventually....?   I just love how you liberals complain about "cost" and what companies charge all while you pile on regulations, taxes, and fees through your big government.  Stick to snow levels in Colorado please, you obviously know very little about this subject, drugs and their cost of production.  But then again I am sure you will tell me you wrote and article about pharma once so you know it all...........?   Chris


1A - 2A = -1A


#26 2 Aces

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 09:22 AM

THE 2 ANTI-TRUMP GUYS HERE HAVE DECLARED OBAMACARE TO BE SUCCESSFUL. THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT UP-TO-SPEED ON THE OBAMACARE DEATH SPIRAL. CASE IN POINT: ANTHEM/BLUE CROSS ANNOUNCES TODAY THAT THEY ARE LEANING TOWARDS EXITING MANY AREAS WHERE IT NOW SELLS PLANS. GET EDUCATED, GUYS. ARTICLE BELOW. READ IT...TWICE.

 

http://www.cnbc.com/...many-areas.html







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