52 replies to this topic

[camay2327]

From what I read in the paper, there is plenty of parking on campus the kids are just to lazy to walk from their vehicle to class.

We must have a lazy generation.

[ducky]

There weren't enough spaces when my children went to FHS two and three years ago. I can't imagine it's gotten any better. I really don't think it's a matter of laziness.

My children drove but they always took other student friends with them to school so they did carpool.

I remember referring to that little roundabout area as the "Circle of H-E-L-L." And, yes, I will admit I saw many more parents being rude drivers than students.

Hope parking gets better for everyone when the new high school opens. Maybe with gas prices what they are carpooling will be taken more seriously.

[tony]

What ever happened to school buses, walking and bicycling?

According to the FCUSD web site, For the 2800 students at FHS, there are 5 buses. Assuming they are all full, that means 200 students arrive at FHS by school bus, or approximately 7% of the students. An annual pass costs $200, or rouighly $1.11 per round trip. That hardly seems exhorbitant.

Now let's compare that to driving. Say you live 3 miles away (about average for FHS students). According to AAA http://www.csaa.com/...57c4514,00.html, it costs on average $0.56 per mile (in 2004 before $3 gas) to drive a late model car, which is what most FHS students drive. So, at $0.56 per mile and 6 miles round trip, that's $3.36 per day. If your parents drop you off and pick you up that doubles to $6.72 per day. So, even with "free" (a.k.a subsidized) parking on campus, taking the bus is far cheaper.

Of course, if you only look at the cost of gas, like most people, then driving sounds like a bargain. Say you drive a car that gets 20 mpg, then the 6 mile round trip takes .33 gallons. Even at $3 per gallon, that's only $1.00 per day. Still cheaper, if only nominally, than taking the bus. Sure, driving is more convenient, although some of that convenience is lost if you park a great distance away.

But the bus is far safer. Interesting how we parents are always so concerned about our kids safety -- they can't walk or bike to school because it's too dangerous or they might get kidnapped -- but we go right ahead and let them do the most dangerous thing imaginable, teenage driving, just as soon as they are old enough.

As for walking and biking, I do remember that for some reason biking to high school was and apparently remains very uncool (almost as uncool as riding the bus). Consequently, there are never more than a handful of bikes in the racks at the high school. And there are maybe a few hundred students, if that, who walk (many of those who appear to be walking are the ones parking in front of house in Prairie Oaks, or getting dropped off there by their parents). Maybe it's time to start changing perceptions of what is cool, and to stop giving our kids cars when they turn 16. Then maybe more of them will live to be old enough to vote, and we won't have such huge parking problems.

Last, but certainly not least, is it any wonder that parents think it's too dangerous for kids to bike to school when our fair city, in the interest of alleviating the chaos of drop-off and pick-up, allows parents to stop in the bike lanes to do so precisely and only during the times of day when students most need those bike lanes to safely get to school? http://www.folsom.ca...ext.asp?page=28 Not only do these cars block the use of the bike lane by those for whom it was intended, but it forces them to ride out in the traffic that is rarely driving the 25 mph school zone limit (especially on Friday afternoons when the flashing lights do not come on when school is leeting out early) around these cars that are quickly pulling in and out of the bike lane, complete with opening doors. Not only is this dangerous for the few intrepid students who do ride their bikes, but it is also dangerous for those who may be getting out of the driver's side door (the fewe who carpool).

Oh, and one final comment. While I'm sure it is annoying to have cars parked in front of your house every day, there is no need for anyone to ask permission to park there. The street in front of a house does not belong to the homeowner (nor does the sidewalk, generally). If they are littering, moving garbage cans, walking on your lawn...well, those are another matter.

If they want to solve the parking problem at FHS, they should charge for parking on campus (at least as much as the cost of a bus pass; or if a nexus is required, charge to cover the construction adn long term maintenance costs of the parking lot), improve the bus service and reduce the cost (perhaps the city should subsidize the FCUSD as a traffic reduction measure), actively promote biking, walking and carpooling, and consider permit parking in the neighborhood (but only weekdays between 8 am and 4 pm when demand by residents is very low, which of course begs the question: why restrict the on-street parking in the first place?)

[forumreader]

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Tony.

Perhaps if the district decided to charge for parking on campus, some of the income could be used to provide for more school buses. Unfortunately, with the current bus routes, some students are required to be on the bus for 45-55 mins. each way. That is quite a bit of lost study time for kids.

[Brett911]

The last line in the Telegraph story sums it up best. "The biggest problem as far as traffic complaints go is respect and courtesy," Sheldon said. "The absolute key is to be courteous to others."

If we do just that, we can avoid potentially onerous laws to contol our behavior.

[forumreader]

Lack of respect and courtesy behind the wheel.....?!!.....This is nothing unique to FHS. IMO, it is a big problem throughout Folsom. Would I be too bold in stating that it is probably a problem nationwide?

[Brett911]

I went to HS with 4,000 other kids on the same campus.

After shcool, there were mass transit busses waiting for the kids. These busses ran on the local mass transit routes thus kids were moved quicly and efficiently out of the school area.

If there were to be 10-12 busses and they ran in two shifts, and each bus ran in a specific zone, I would bet kids could be moved fairly quickly out of the area and to their homes or destinations.

Personally, kids can walk the 1 mile distance home each day (sans bad weather). It'll be good for them. The others can use a mass transit model.

BTW, we did pay a disounted rate for the monthly bus pass to ride the busses. It worked great.

[rlsliger]

Perhaps if the district decided to charge for parking on campus, some of the income could be used to provide for more school buses. 

I must be missing something! Wouldn't charging for parking cause more students to park in the neighborhoods?

[forumreader]

rlsliger:

Sorry. I'll clarify. -- I was refering to tony's post which included a possible idea of charging for parking, encouraging bus, bicycle and pedestrian transit, and restricting residential street parking. (However, I don't know that tony is in favor of the restricted street parking.)

Why shouldn't the driving students pay for parking? Students pay at colleges. Many employees in downtown offices pay for parking. -- Driving a car is a privelege, but also an expense to the driver.

[ratlab]

If it truly is an issue of students not wanting to park on campus, rather than an issue of lack of parking spaces, the city should look at the solution Sac City College and Land Park are implementing. 2 hour parking max. If you have a residents' permit, the 2 hour parking rule does not apply.

[tony]

As forumreader said, my suggestion waws to charge for parking and, recognizing that this might encourage more kids to park in the neighborhood, consider parking restrictions there as well. Because of the fact that the desire to avoid student parking in the neighborhood is a very time-specific issue, there are many options for restricting parking: 1) limit the length of time on weekdays 2) have permit parking during certain hours only (this solves the "where do my party guests park?" problem) 3) have no parking mon-fri 8 am to 10 am or 4) put in metered parking during school hours -- make them pay for the privelege of parking there.

But I don't necessarily support any of these because, the fact is that students parking on the street is not really a parking problem; it's a nuisance problem. There is no shortage of on-street parking mon-fri 8 am - 3 pm. Most residential streets are almost completely lacking in parked cars during those hours. So, if the kids are parking illegally (blocking driveways, garabage cans, etc.) or otherwise causing problems (littering, loitering on private property, etc), then the school and or the police should deal with those problems. If you somehow prohibit student parking on these streets, then all that on-street parking will be nothing but wasted pavement the majority of the time. Sure, delivery trucks and landscapers will need to find other places to park, but they park anywhere they want to anyway.

When people talk about sprawl, this is what they are talking about: every destination must have its own "adequate" parking, even if there is unused parking immediately next door. It's called separation of uses and results in suburbs with ungodly amounts of underutilized pavement. It's been estimated that there are up to 7 parking spaces for every car in average suburbia (and Folsom is probably "above" average). And almost all of them are "free". At any given time, most of those spaces are also empty.

For more on this topic, I refer you to a not so concise, recently published tome entitled, "The High Cost of Free Parking". http://www.planning....ce/highcost.htm

[tony]

One more thing. Couuld this topic be moved to the general discussion? This is not really just about Prairie Oaks. This is about the high school.

[tessieca]

It is difficult to imagine that a campus the size of FHS, added to the fact the school is so new, that adequate parking does not exist on the campus. 

The campus was built for 1800 students, not the 2800+ that are on it now. Plus, you account for a certain number of staff members, which must also increase with the numbers of kids. Fall 2007!! Be patient.

Perhaps if the district decided to charge for parking on campus, some of the income could be used to provide for more school buses. 

I'm not sure that this is legal. It was one of the issues with partnering school and other facilties; i.e., the college charges but high school students could not be charged.

Keep in mind the Kinsella fuss about the music boosters. People are being really watchful about what fees are charged to whom.

The busses are not full. Many parents still choose to cart their kids, and many simply buy their babies cars. Also, the distance for high school bussing is 2 miles, so nobody within two miles of the school can bus, and no bus stop can be within 2 miles of another one.

[forumreader]

One more thing.  Couuld this topic be moved to the general discussion?  This is not really just about Prairie Oaks. This is about the high school.

Done. Thanks for the suggestion.

[forumreader]

tessieca, do you know if the plan for the Vista del Lago campus include very ample parking? I imagine it does.

A very good solution to the high school parking problem and other teen-related driving issues would be to raise the driving age to 18!!