92 replies to this topic

[DalOwnerX3]

There was GATE back in the mid 70's. I was in the program. The only thing I remember was that we dabbled with animation. One of the kids did a short animated film and showed it to the class. The program was didn't have much structure - they went over the principles of stop-motion animation and encouraged us to make a movie. I remember coming up with ideas but didn't go any further than that.

[bordercolliefan]

What private schools are available in Folsom?

What is their cost?

A lot of people have written in a positive light about Phoenix. Does anyone know how expensive it would be to send a child there for elementary school?

A lot of parents I know try to get their children into St. John's, but I think it's almost impossible to get into unless you are a member of the parish.

[forumreader]

I'd like to clarify that although I have been disappointed so far with the public education experience in Folsom, I am not targeting my criticism just at FCUSD. I believe the public education crisis is a statewide concern. Having discussed many of these issues with my mother, a recently retired public school teacher from the Bay Area, I believe that we could do a lot worse than sending our kids to public school in Folsom. And Folsom does have some outstanding individuals working with our kids. But look at the system/structure they must work in!

In part what makes Folsom schools better than others is parent participation. (I speak as a parent who has clocked uncountable hours volunteering in the classroom, with PTA, with fundraising.) I believe parent participation is part of my responsibility, whether in a public or private school. More importantly, I believe it is ultimately and foremost the parents' responsibility to educate their children. I first taught them to walk, talk, play, read, etc. A parent's teaching role doesn't cease when a child is enrolled in school.

However, when you regularly see the need to question curriculum, undo/reteach, and supplement teaching at home, it becomes difficult. The reality is that our children come home from school tired (even if the day has been filled with "fluff"). After homework, chores, sports, music or other supplemental activities, there is little time left for our kids to just be kids. There is little time left for meaningful family time. This may be a sign of the times in our pressure-filled society. But the fact remains that a full day has been spent on a school campus, and the time was not used wisely.

I try not to be a task master at home. I look for ways to foster fun and creativity while sneaking in a "lesson" or new skill. But often I do insist that my child read books I have chosen at the library, books that challenge him. I have been instructing my child in Spanish because foreign languages are not offered until high school. ---- This is not all about competing, and getting into the right college. It is about my child working to his potential. It is about not having a portion of his school day WASTED.

I have sometimes thought I might as well be homeschooling. I wish I were. But I kept putting trust in one teacher after the next, and naively hoping it would get better. Now my son is in the 7th grade and understandably wants to be with his friends. So we will keeping trying to work within the public ed. system. (I also have preschool children whom I hope to either homeschool or privately educate. It will take some creative budgeting, but I think it is worthwhile.)

[EDF]

To Forum reader ..... if you have the time... by all means homeschool your kid... check it out.. they have all kinds of support groups and they get together on field trips... If I had it to do all over again... I would...

I think all of the "spelling and geography bees" have all been won by homeschoolers... not sure... but what does that tell you....

The educrats don't want you to homeschool, you know why...? because you can do it better...

their arguements agaisnt it will always center on this... "you won't get the benefits of socialization".. that's their big lie... they just want your money.... they get paid per kid... just ask the school district here what happens if your kid isn't in school for one day....

I had our boys in a "private pre-school" and they learned to read before they were in kindergarten... it was called "phonics".. but they weren't doing that when my kids started in public school... I learned that just reading to your kids at a young age gets the fired up...

You know... teaching used to be a "calling"... much like being a Priest or a Pastor...

now its all about Pay, benefits... and number of teaching "minutes" in a school day... that's how they calculate it by the way...

Am I cynical about public education...? Naw... not really...

[bordercolliefan]

I am very sobered by the problems with the public schools that everyone has brought up.

I do think there are some real disadvantages to homeschooling, though. I think it is important for kids to have influential, educated adult role models who aren't their parents. When I was a kid, a number of my teachers had a profound influence on me, broadening my perspective much more than if I had gotten all my education from my parents.

I also just think that too much togetherness can be a bad thing -- I'm not at all sure my kids would WANT to be with me day in and day out! Right now they are in part-time preschool and seem to enjoy the variety of being with the teachers and other kids.

It also really puts the parents (usually the mom) in the position of being the taskmaster all day long. --I find that often kids are much more willing to do things for teachers than they are for their own parents.

Finally, in the homeschooling families I have seen (admittedly just a couple examples), I have always been struck by how much attention the children demand on a minute by minute basis. It's hard to even have a conversation with the mom-- the homeschooled kids want to be included in all adult conversations and always have something they want to tell you instead of just going off and playing with the other kids. I've always kind of suspected this is because they get accustomed to that one-on-one attention throughout the day. Sometimes it's good for kids to be in a classroom full of kids and learn they aren't the center of the universe...

[forumreader]

Amen to that! Thank you for your words of encouragement.

The ADA (Average Daily Attendance) funds are so important to the schools, that many school administrators don't even hide it. I have openly heard them ask the parents to make every effort to have children attend even a portion of the school day, even if they are ill, have an appointment or trip to take. If is student is marked "present" at school, even for 5 minutes, the school receives the full ADA for the day. -- Yes there is much to be cynical about.

Teaching should be a respected profession - a calling. And parents are a child's first and most important teachers. I have to remind myself sometimes that public education as we know it today is a relatively modern creation. -- And let's look at the results. I had better get off my soap box before I begin discussing our many social ills!

To all other parents out there, it's true that reading is invaluable to our kids. Not to boast, but just to make a point --- My mother taught me and my 3 siblings to read before kindergarten, and my older son was reading at 2nd grade level when he entered kindergarten. Reading is just a way of life in my household. -- And you don't have to have special skills or expensive tools (i.e. Hooked on Phonics) to do it. If you can reading this message, you are potentially ready to be the best teacher your child ever has.

A message to "bordercolliefan" - St. John's has the reputation of a very good school. (We are currently on the waiting list.) I've been informed that there is almost always a waiting list and that parish members are given first priority. Occasionally, however, there is an opening to non parishoners in older grade levels. -- I have also heard good things about the Phoenix Schools. And don't forget charter schools, which range in services offered. Some are curriculum support for homeschoolers, others are parent participation/individualized learning programs, others a combination.

A good place to start for information is the Natomas Charter School. Tel (916) 928-5345. Good luck.

[DalOwnerX3]

My wife spoke with another mom who's kid is going to Oak Chan which is close to us. The mom said that the kindergarden teacher is really good. So we are still torn between Oak Chan and Phoenix.

We're leaning toward having our child attend Oak Chan for kindergarden and go to Phoenix if it's not working out. The concern here is whether our child will fall too much behind if we move her to Phoenix.

One selling point about Phoenix is that they offer Chinese starting at the 2nd grade. That's pretty attractive. It'll be nice for her to know more about her heritage. My wife and I are ABCs (American born Chinese) - I speak decently but my wife doesn't. It would be cool if she could pick up Chinese. We're also looking for other Chinese teachers/schools.

The search goes on...

BTW - If we go to public schools, I think the admins will hate us. We plan on having family trips during the school year to avoid the crowds.

[cathyu]

For the parent thinking of going to Oak Chan for KG, I wouldn't do it. Public school KG is a complete waste of time b/c they spend 3 hours in class and hardly learn anything. You better just do Phoenix straight. Your child's time will be better spent at Phoenix. What I've noticed is that in Folsom you will always find parents who gush about their local public school or particular teachers. Yes, good and bad teachers are everywhere, but you need to be concerned w/the learning outcomes for the grade. In Folsom KG public school, by the end of the year, your child is expected to count to 30. My son was doing that at 2 1/2 ! Unfortunately in this day and age, there are a lot of parents who do not see it as their "job" to teach their kids. So you get kids in KG who don't know the alphabet, can't write their name and can barely count to ten. How will your child fare in that kind of environment?

My son has been at Phoenix since pre-K (after we moved from the Bay area); he attended Carl Sundahl for 2 months in 1st grade and we moved back to Phoenix b/c he was so freaking bored! He's now in second grade at Phoenix, on the honor roll and loves to learn. He's not a nerdy type, but rising to the next challenge is just a part of him now. Yes, people say genes are always a factor,but I believe that the type of environment you place your child in is also a factor. I guarantee you that he would not be on a 4th grade level if he was not at a private school. I saw his demise in the 2 months that he was at Carl Sundahl.

I have a friend who is at St. Johns and waited almost 4 years to get in. Their academic program cannot be compared to that of Phoenix, but is definitely a cut above the Folsom public schools. Her son went to Phoenix w/my son, and they just got into St. Johns for 2nd grade; she definitely says that Phoenix has a higher academic standard, but she wanted her son to be in the Catholic environment. St. Johns also has cheaper tuition.

I am very familiar w/Catholic elementary and high schools and have found that Catholic elementary schools are not as strong academically as their college prep high schools. We are looking at Jesuit for our son if we are still in the area by the time he is in high school. Folsom middle school is totally out of the question for us.

Private school is a definite sacrifice for us, but I always tell people that we don't live in a 6 BR home b/c of it, and we don't take annual vacations b/c of it. The whole family sacrifices, but my husband and I feel that it is worth it. My husband and I are both products of private education and see how the discipline (from the college prep days) have helped to shape us.

I'm off my soapbox now!

[Love Folsom]

I think the public schools are being put down too much. Yes I had a problem with 5th grade for one of my daughters but private school can be a very negative thing also. I see so many 'arrogant' people and kids in Folsom. I am a product of the private system who had an extremely rude awakening when I joined the real world. My kids mix with others from all social backgrounds, good kids from all levels of society (and a couple of not so good from affluent families). I love that they are able to socialize at all levels and learn the good values of all. It is not just about being able to read at 2 or count to 150 at 3. I am so proud of my 15 year old who is doing well at High School and having the time of her life.

[Love Folsom]

That looked so bad - I am equally proud of my 7th grader! The Folsom School system very good.

By the way I know of some teachers in the private sector who I definately would not want anywhere near my kids.

[bordercolliefan]

I really liked the comment that "it's not all about being able to count to 150 by age 2 etc. etc." Things seem SO competitive nowadays in every arena -- school, sports, college, etc. When we were kids, we spent most of our free time just running around the neighborhood with other kids, homework was unheard of at least until jr. high, and there was hardly any standardized testing for elementary kids -- and we still got into good colleges, got good jobs, etc. For all the competition today's kids face, I don't think kids these days are that much smarter than we were!

As parents we seem to feel that if our child doesn't have the very best opportunities from Day 1, their life will be ruined... I can't figure out if our worries are valid, or if we are just finding things to worry about now that a lot of "real" worries, like polio and smallpox, are thankfully a thing of the past.

I do think that part of the problem that public schools face is that we, as parents, don't even always agree on what we think our kids should be taught. I have a neighbor who, before she enrolled her kids in our local elementary school, went running down there to get assurance from the principal that evolution would not be taught in school. --Now, I don't have a problem with people who think evolution may not be the whole answer, but I certainly think that the leading theory in biology ought to be at least mentioned in school!! --Apparently the principal told her it was only taught "a little" -- whatever that means.

[forumreader]

I wanted to add that I have not intended to attack the public schools or the teachers in general. I would not want to be in their shoes! What they have to work with in terms of funding and state standards is very limiting. Additionally, they do need to teach all levels of students, even those who do not get the head start and extra support from the home. How frustrating for the teachers!

And it is not all about competing and counting to 150 by age 3. I also want my children to enjoy their childhood.

What it is about for me is find opportunities for my kids to rise to their potential. It is about having choices as a parent. Vouchers might be the way to go. Or perhaps we should make the teaching profession more competitive and performanced based. Just think what quality and diversity we might attract.

Public education has its merits. My husband and I are both products of public schools, and college and graduate education from the U.C. system.

My 7th grader is in honors classes and has high scores on standardized test (whatever that is worth!), BUT I don't see him working to his potential.
I feel as if I have been fighting a battle with the public ed. system and against a pervasive peer environment of mediocrity for seven years! I'm tired of swimming upstream. -- I want to invest time in my kids' education, but I don't want to waste time fighting mediocrity!

This is a great subject, and it give me hope to hear from other parents who are so involved in raising their children. My hat off to all of you!

[DalOwnerX3]

Wow. Now I'm starting to lean back to private school. I need to stop reading this thread.

Would the usefulness of kindergarden also be based on the child's previous education background? For many kids, kindergarden is the kids first step into a formal educational setting. (It was for me.) So many of the "learning activities" for the kids may be to get the kids used to a learning setting - paying attention to the teacher, following instructions, and socializing with other kids.

My kid has been going to Montessori for the past two years. I've heard that kindergarden teachers love Montessori kids because they know how to follow directions. So maybe my child's time is better spent learning something new.

Also regarding the snobbery factor - is it really that prevelant here in Folsom? The people that I know who have their kids in private school tend to be normal folks. Maybe I'm a snob and don't know the difference.

[bordercolliefan]

These days, especially in a relatively affluent town like Folsom, it is rare to have a kid for whom kindergarten is the first learning experience. Nearly every child does, and should, attend preschool.

I talked to two different kindergarten teachers, and they both stated adamantly that they expect children to receive a certain level of preparation before they arrive for kindergarten (they need to know their abc's, count 1-20, know their shapes and colors, be able to wait their turn -- that's all the specifics I remember them saying). They both led me to understand that they are far too busy trying to meet the curriculum goals and prepare the kids for testing -- they do not want to spend time dealing with kids who aren't even used to a learning environment.

Some of you may have the same reaction I did -- "Hey, when we were kids, isn't this the stuff we were supposed to LEARN in kindergarten -- not already know it when we got there??" Nonetheless, it was a wake-up call to me, and now I tell parents that if possible, you absolutely must try to get your child some kind of preschool experience so they won't be labeled as "behind" or a "behavior problem" when they arrive at kindergarten.

[bordercolliefan]

Ok, here's a question I'll throw out there.

It seems like the majority of respondents on this thread have advocated private schools over the Folsom public schools.

When we moved here, I quit my job to be home with the kids. Sending them to private school would probably mean me going back to work. Anyone have an opinion on whether it is better for the kids to be in private school, or for mom to be home with them when they get home from school??