627 replies to this topic

[aubie84alum]

How much does Mr. Goodwin make? How much do principals make? Do they pay for medical insurance?

I do not know exact numbers. We were told to find them between page 129 and 139 in the budget in the Aug. board mtg transcripts. I really can't find them.

The principal and other school admin do not get paid enough for what they do. I see them there before 7 and after 5 sometimes. We have great ones at our school. We had four really bad years. One of my students said last year, "wait if (current principal' s name) wasn't our principal last year, who was?". I think numbers can be accessed like teacher's, online via fcusd.org site. They get the same cost of living adjustment that we will get. I believe that's how that works.

The many asst. superintendents, new positions and old, make quite a bit more. Again, I have never been able to get an accurate, straightforward answer about that. It's part of my frustration.

[tisha]

I have a different take on this topic.
Two years ago the teachers had a choice to make when the district had a money shortage

A-increase classroom size from 20kids to 32kids for 1st through 3rd grades and lay off 80 teacher in 1st through 3rd grade.

or

B-keep classroom size at 20 kids for 1st through 3rd grades and all teachers, k - 12th grades, take a pay cut (8%).

We know today that all the teacher took the pay cut. The middle and highschool teachers knew the value of having 20 kid in 1st - 3rd grades. So for me, somebody I don't know, and may never know, took a paycut so my daughter could enjoy a reduce size classroom in 1-3rd grade. The teachers took the pay cut in good faith that their salary would return when the district received more money.

This brings us to today's dispute. The district received lots more money from the state this year. I believe that the teachers should receive their whole 8% back. But they are only asking for part of the 8%. If the district can give raises to nonteachers, and put lots of money into a website, then the district can give the teachers what the teachers want.

[Orangetj]

As TM pointed out, they say PG didn't get a raise, and HE didn't. The salary was raised before he accepted the position. It's been little white lies such as these that have been going on during the negotiating process that get to us all. Full disclosure?

Who's "white lie" was it, then? First the statement is made that Godwin got a $40K raise. Then it comes out that it wasn't actually $40K, but rather $25K. Next we hear that...well...actually Godwin didn't get that raise, the district had to increase the salary of the open position by $25K to attract an appropriately qualified candidate. Increasing the pay scale of a position to make it market-competitive before it is filled and giving an individual a raise are two very different things.

[tessieca]

I have a different take on this topic.
Two years ago the teachers had a choice to make when the district had a money shortage

A-increase classroom size from 20kids to 32kids for 1st through 3rd grades and lay off 80 teacher in 1st through 3rd grade.

or

B-keep classroom size at 20 kids for 1st through 3rd grades and all teachers, k - 12th grades, take a pay cut (8%).

We know today that all the teacher took the pay cut. The middle and highschool teachers knew the value of having 20 kid in 1st - 3rd grades. So for me, somebody I don't know, and may never know, took a paycut so my daughter could enjoy a reduce size classroom in 1-3rd grade. The teachers took the pay cut in good faith that their salary would return when the district received more money.

This brings us to today's dispute. The district received lots more money from the state this year. I believe that the teachers should receive their whole 8% back. But they are only asking for part of the 8%. If the district can give raises to nonteachers, and put lots of money into a website, then the district can give the teachers what the teachers want.

This is misstated. Three years ago the teachers did take a pay cut in 2003-04 in order to 1) keep some 3rd grade class sizes reduced (avoid teacher layoffs), 2) maintain athletic and activities directors at the high schools (avoid certificated staff layoffs or reassignments), and 3) keep the high school counselor ratios up (avoid certificated staff layoffs). That year they chose to maintain their bargaining unit members and decreased their salaries by a voluntary .62% reduction (there was an additional formula driven reduction of .0885% for a total of 1.505% reduction).

.62% is nowhere close to 8%, so I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers. Also, they already got back the voluntarily reduced salary.

The .62% was reinstated on top of their increase the next year in 2004-05. The formula driven reduction was never intended to be reinstated and never was reinstated. By 2004-05 school year the salaries were back where they would have been had the .62% decrease never occurred.

[poof]

Can a protesting teacher please explain to me how his/her salary increase will improve the educational performance of the students? Would you be willing to tie your increases to student performance?

How hard is it to fire bad teachers in FCUSD?

When private sector competitors agree even at the expense of their own business interests, one has to pay attention.

I've never seen a teacher's union protesting for better student performance, for better support for the kids, just for themselves.

Apple CEO Jobs attacks teacher unions

AUSTIN — Apple Inc. CEO Steve Jobs lambasted teacher unions today, claiming no amount of technology in the classroom would improve public schools until principals could fire bad teachers.

Jobs compared schools to businesses with principals serving as CEOs.

"What kind of person could you get to run a small business if you told them that when they came in they couldn't get rid of people that they thought weren't any good?" he asked to loud applause during an education reform conference.

"Not really great ones because if you're really smart you go, 'I can't win.'"

In a rare joint appearance, Jobs shared the stage with competitor Michael Dell, founder and CEO of Dell Inc. Both spoke to the gathering about the potential for bringing technological advances to classrooms.

"I believe that what is wrong with our schools in this nation is that they have become unionized in the worst possible way," Jobs said.

"This unionization and lifetime employment of K-12 teachers is off-the-charts crazy."

At various pauses, the audience applauded enthusiastically. Dell sat quietly with his hands folded in his lap.

"Apple just lost some business in this state, I'm sure," Jobs said.

Dell responded that unions were created because "the employer was treating his employees unfairly and that was not good."

"So now you have these enterprises where they take good care of their people. The employees won, they do really well and succeed."

Dell also blamed problems in public schools on the lack of a competitive job market for principals.

[tisha]

This is misstated. Three years ago the teachers did take a pay cut in 2003-04 in order to 1) keep some 3rd grade class sizes reduced (avoid teacher layoffs), 2) maintain athletic and activities directors at the high schools (avoid certificated staff layoffs or reassignments), and 3) keep the high school counselor ratios up (avoid certificated staff layoffs). That year they chose to maintain their bargaining unit members and decreased their salaries by a voluntary .62% reduction (there was an additional formula driven reduction of .0885% for a total of 1.505% reduction).

.62% is nowhere close to 8%, so I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers. Also, they already got back the voluntarily reduced salary.

The .62% was reinstated on top of their increase the next year in 2004-05. The formula driven reduction was never intended to be reinstated and never was reinstated. By 2004-05 school year the salaries were back where they would have been had the .62% decrease never occurred.

Thank you for this reply, tisha

[gingerkid]

The last thing I would want to do would be to spend all day in a room full of kids. That's not my thing. I think teachers should be paid well for what they do. But I think they are already fairly paid and receive much better health and retirement benefits than my family does. My boss doesn't give me nearly as many days off. I also have to take home work even after working an 8 hour day instead of a 6 hour day.

If the school district is offering a reasonable raise I think the teachers should quit complaining and get back to doing their best at their jobs. My kids are not well served by griping, unhappy teachers who talk to them about money in class and threaten to strike. As a parent, I'll be extremely unhappy with any teachers who would even consider leaving the classroom for some extra bucks.

[39 degrees]

Who's "white lie" was it, then? First the statement is made that Godwin got a $40K raise. Then it comes out that it wasn't actually $40K, but rather $25K. Next we hear that...well...actually Godwin didn't get that raise, the district had to increase the salary of the open position by $25K to attract an appropriately qualified candidate. Increasing the pay scale of a position to make it market-competitive before it is filled and giving an individual a raise are two very different things.

True, but I think the bottom line here is the teachers gave up money to save programs and positions and then the district laid out big money for a new superintendent and C.F.O. Somewhere in the neighborhood of an additional $65,000 for both per year. I think the 40 in 40K was $40,000 for the C.F.O. and $25,000 for superintendent. I would think the school board president would be more liable for the accuracy of those numbers, but they have been straightened out. Let's move on.

I don't think the teachers took an 8% cut, at least not from what I am being told. Maybe .8%? The school board president is correct in her statements about part of the money coming back. I think the teachers were under the impression that they would either get all of the money back in time or be negotiated with in good faith. I don't think they feel that way. At least, that's not the impression I felt after talking to my child's teacher on Friday afternoon when the district announced they were going to impasse(finally got the spelling on that)

[aubie84alum]

Who's "white lie" was it, then? First the statement is made that Godwin got a $40K raise. Then it comes out that it wasn't actually $40K, but rather $25K. Next we hear that...well...actually Godwin didn't get that raise, the district had to increase the salary of the open position by $25K to attract an appropriately qualified candidate. Increasing the pay scale of a position to make it market-competitive before it is filled and giving an individual a raise are two very different things.

I believe the money was an increase to get Godwin, in particular. I wish I knew what the truth was. I wish someone from the district would show us the records and not just tell us what they want to tell us. That's what the fact finder will be able to tell us. I'm glad the district called for impasse. Maybe we'll all have the truth now.

[aubie84alum]

True, but I think the bottom line here is the teachers gave up money to save programs and positions and then the district laid out big money for a new superintendent and C.F.O. Somewhere in the neighborhood of an additional $65,000 for both per year. I think the 40 in 40K was $40,000 for the C.F.O. and $25,000 for superintendent. I would think the school board president would be more liable for the accuracy of those numbers, but they have been straightened out. Let's move on.

I don't think the teachers took an 8% cut, at least not from what I am being told. Maybe .8%? The school board president is correct in her statements about part of the money coming back. I think the teachers were under the impression that they would either get all of the money back in time or be negotiated with in good faith. I don't think they feel that way. At least, that's not the impression I felt after talking to my child's teacher on Friday afternoon when the district announced they were going to impasse(finally got the spelling on that)

I think it was 1.?, but .66% keeps coming up as not paid back.

[39 degrees]

The last thing I would want to do would be to spend all day in a room full of kids. That's not my thing. I think teachers should be paid well for what they do. But I think they are already fairly paid and receive much better health and retirement benefits than my family does. My boss doesn't give me nearly as many days off. I also have to take home work even after working an 8 hour day instead of a 6 hour day.

If the school district is offering a reasonable raise I think the teachers should quit complaining and get back to doing their best at their jobs. My kids are not well served by griping, unhappy teachers who talk to them about money in class and threaten to strike. As a parent, I'll be extremely unhappy with any teachers who would even consider leaving the classroom for some extra bucks.

I've kept up with this thread for the last week or so and I have seen several times by what I assume are both teachers, that they do not want to strike. I think one of them made a good point that this is not so much a raise, but a cost of living adjustment. The cost of living goes up, the value of a dollar goes down, the state adjusts by making a payment to the district and the teachers just want their fair share. I guess if you don't like that system then do something about it at the state capitol.

My child's teacher has two children. What about them? Don't they deserve for their parent to have their money kept to the standard of living. If we can't make the lives of our teachers at least comfortable what can we do? They work with our kids. I don't want my child's teacher worrying about this business anymore. It wears on them and fortunately they have some principles. If they settle for less it will affect them for many years to come. I can understand that argument and to say the teachers are being greedy and whining is such my baloney. I don't know even where to start. Granted my child is pretty young, but not once has my child's teacher mentioned anything about strike or money. Trust me, I ask my child almost every day. If other teachers are doing that I wish they would stop and be professional about it. I'm not advocating that they do it. I just want this to be over.

[tisha]

This is a link for the January 2007 Bargaining Update from the School Board website.

http://www.fcusd.k12...ning_Update.pdf

The attached image shows two tables, the first table is from page 4 under Historical Perspective, the second is a similar table which I would like filled in with data from the proposed budget. If someone can complete this table, I would appreciate it.

 historicaltable.gif   11.91K   7 downloads

[aubie84alum]

[quote name='poof' date='Feb 19 2007, 12:03 PM' post='146828']
Can a protesting teacher please explain to me how his/her salary increase will improve the educational performance of the students? Would you be willing to tie your increases to student performance?

How hard is it to fire bad teachers in FCUSD?

First, the cost of living allowance has nothing to do with our ability in the classroom. We will not, nor do we suggest that we will short change our kids. The money is our cost of living adjustment to off-set inflation. I spend money I don't really have on classroom supplies. We get very little to use, if any, to buy anything from pencils to books on tape, to markers, anything we need to enhance our ability to address the multiple learning styles our kids have.

MOST of us are in this job because we want to make a difference. We know we're not going to get wealthy. We want to be able to support our families too. We give a lot off our time that you can't see, in so many different ways. Teaching isn't a job you can compare to other professions. Many have tried to treat it like a business. Even those districts that have let CEO types take over a school they have been failures. There is documentation to support this claim.

I admit that it is a process to get rid of bad teachers. I am sometimes dumbfounded by teachers who achieve permanent status vs. those who don't. The problem lies in the evaluation process, the dog and pony show, some people are able to pull off. It's something that definately needs fixing. One year your a star, the next evaluator thinks your crap the next year. If I ran the world such would not be the case.

[aubie84alum]

The last thing I would want to do would be to spend all day in a room full of kids. That's not my thing. I think teachers should be paid well for what they do. But I think they are already fairly paid and receive much better health and retirement benefits than my family does. My boss doesn't give me nearly as many days off. I also have to take home work even after working an 8 hour day instead of a 6 hour day.

If the school district is offering a reasonable raise I think the teachers should quit complaining and get back to doing their best at their jobs. My kids are not well served by griping, unhappy teachers who talk to them about money in class and threaten to strike. As a parent, I'll be extremely unhappy with any teachers who would even consider leaving the classroom for some extra bucks.

Principle and ethics are tied to the way they are treating us. I think if they had proved their numbers, didn't imply that we were trying to take something away from kids, negotiated in good faith, made at least any other offer than the same one over and over, addressed the 600 out off pocket each month for medical (an increase of 200 per which lowers overall benefits, including salary) whether you have one dependent or more, hadn't added new costly positions at the top, hadn't sneered, hadn't lied to the public..We probably would have been able to settle for less. However, they did none of these things and more.

[gingerkid]

Cost of living or raise is sort of semantic. In private industry, a businesses costs are considered before they consider how much money is left over for raise/COLA/whatever. In schools there is a formula they use to come up with what they call a COLA. The state doesn't ever give districts extra money for giving a different sort of increase called a raise. Earlier I read that the state also doesn't consider any of the schools new costs. So, it seems, economically speaking that if you give 100% of what the state calls a COLA to teachers there's nothing left over for anything or anyone else.

When you're talking about disagreeing because someone sneered at you or lied, in your opinion, it sounds kind of whiny. It also sounds pretty mean when you keep going after the school board members personally when they are just trying to give information from a different perspective.

My kids are in secondary school. Some teachers are talking about their disagreements in class. Some are talking on the phone during class about it. Not so much lately though. Maybe impasse will help. I agree with 39degrees that going to factfinding should help both sides to get to a common set of facts.