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Lowest Paid In Sacramento


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#316 aubie84alum

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 02:51 PM

QUOTE(gingerkid @ Feb 19 2007, 01:32 PM) View Post
Cost of living or raise is sort of semantic. In private industry, a businesses costs are considered before they consider how much money is left over for raise/COLA/whatever. In schools there is a formula they use to come up with what they call a COLA. The state doesn't ever give districts extra money for giving a different sort of increase called a raise. Earlier I read that the state also doesn't consider any of the schools new costs. So, it seems, economically speaking that if you give 100% of what the state calls a COLA to teachers there's nothing left over for anything or anyone else.

When you're talking about disagreeing because someone sneered at you or lied, in your opinion, it sounds kind of whiny. It also sounds pretty mean when you keep going after the school board members personally when they are just trying to give information from a different perspective.

My kids are in secondary school. Some teachers are talking about their disagreements in class. Some are talking on the phone during class about it. Not so much lately though. Maybe impasse will help. I agree with 39degrees that going to factfinding should help both sides to get to a common set of facts.


There is a significant difference between COLA and private business raises. Private industries, that do not hire union workers, have every right to pay anybody, for any reason, more/less what they want; however, state and gov't agencies have many categorical funds, whether folks are in the military, state/county/fed employees they are assigned funds for those different categories by the budgets setforth by the appropriate gov't agencies. They are argued and voted upon by committees and sometimes the legislature. There are so many budgets no one can know all of the information. Then they add more bureaucrats to figure out how to split it up, and those folks get the enormous bucks plus per diem.

For example, last year 28 million was given to school districts (not sure if it was state/fed. funding; districts get both) to create supports for students with IEPs re: remediation and test taking strategies. Those funds were divided by need and given to the districts to disseminate on an as needed basis. After having gone through several bureaucracies the special ed students at my site were offered the same supports as the non-IEP students. I have no idea what happened to the funds or how much they were or if our site received dime one.

The COLA is designed to cover all aspects of the educational process, including salaries. Teachers rarely get the entire COLA allocated to them. Our last contract was negotiate to give teachers 75% (of COLA) over three years. That was substantial. At that time, Folsom-Cordova was way, way down on the salary as compared to the 12 neighboring, equally funded and comparable districts.

When contract negotiations began last summer we asked for less than 100%. Our team decreased that percentage even further when the district gave us their first, last and final offer of 5.25% (however we wanted to break it up), the unit members (faculty) said no way, the district came back with the same offer and it was stalemate.

A raise is over 100% of the COLA.

#317 aubie84alum

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 02:58 PM

We have the right to talk between classes, before and after school, and speak to students about this information, if asked, at those times.

That's why were lucky to be in the greatest country ever created. We have the right to speak on this form, to petition/question authority and voice opinions. I'd defend to the death our right to keep it that way too.

#318 Jolene

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 05:11 PM

QUOTE(aubie84alum @ Feb 19 2007, 02:58 PM) View Post
That's why were lucky to be in the greatest country ever created. We have the right to speak on this form, to petition/question authority and voice opinions. I'd defend to the death our right to keep it that way too.


Having the ability does not mean that one necessarily should.
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#319 cw68

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 05:25 PM

QUOTE(39 degrees @ Feb 19 2007, 12:28 PM) View Post
My child's teacher has two children. What about them? Don't they deserve for their parent to have their money kept to the standard of living.

Perhaps this could be the argument my husband could use to dispute his 3% raise this year. Oh, benefits costs went up, the raise was 4 months late (not retroactive) and stock options are gone.

IMHO, if you don't like it, leave. But don't strike and negatively impact the children.

I also agree with Jolene that teachers should not be talking about this to the students, whether or not they have the right to. Our children should not be put in the middle, nor should they be stressed about it in any way. It's the parent's position to give them this information and not the teacher's. My daughter is too young to worry about this, but if she were older and her teacher was talking about this to her, I'd be ticked off.

#320 jen

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 05:44 PM

Well that was a long read, made shorter by the V, M, T sort of posts, deleted I guess.

My take on this is:

- that teachers think they deserve much more than the general public
- they don't want anyone to give any sort of information that differs from what they're saying. When others have tried, they are attacked personally by the teachers posting here.
- they don't care if the schools have other increases they need to pay for because somehow all of the increase belongs to teachers
- they are willing to present one side of the story only to our children because it's their right
- they are willing to walk out of the classroom in order to get a bigger raise (COLA is what you got by staying in your job an extra year)

CW has a point. If you're really as unhappy as some of you seem to be maybe you would be better off in a place like Sacramento district that pays higher.

#321 aubie84alum

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 06:29 PM

QUOTE(asbestoshills @ Jan 28 2007, 12:55 PM) View Post
It sounds like the district knows that teachers love the Folsom area so they don't pay as much.....I doubt if the pool of good teachers will subside even of the teachers were paid a lot less than other areas...Since Folsom is an affluent area the teachers like to live in the same area and have their kids attend the same schools as they teach in....I know some Folsom teachers and they rather not commute and live where they work regardless of the pay scale....This isn't fair by a long shot....

In addition, I noticed in Folsom, the students go to school an hour less than most students in different cities in California...That whole 45 minute split reading is a joke...My daughter never reads for 45 minutes at a time and I noticed that there is a lot of slacking off in the class when this method is used...It's disruptive too....If you have several volunteers in the classroom to split the class into groups, I think is a better remedy than shortening the learning day.....


Folsom has quite a few down sides. I can't afford to live in Folsom. I'm sure if they bought in years ago, or they are a two income family, they can afford it. I think you're assuming too much. I think that our hours are the same as other districts. It's done by minutes and has to follow the law.

#322 aubie84alum

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 06:31 PM

QUOTE(Jolene @ Feb 19 2007, 05:11 PM) View Post
Having the ability does not mean that one necessarily should.



That's true. Informed questions, informed opinions are great. A million people can say a foolish thing, and it is still a foolish thing (Chinese Proverb).

#323 DrKoz23

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 07:04 PM

QUOTE(cw68 @ Feb 19 2007, 05:25 PM) View Post
I also agree with Jolene that teachers should not be talking about this to the students, whether or not they have the right to. Our children should not be put in the middle, nor should they be stressed about it in any way. It's the parent's position to give them this information and not the teacher's. My daughter is too young to worry about this, but if she were older and her teacher was talking about this to her, I'd be ticked off.


I totally agree.

Students should not be used as pawns in this matter. What benefits do the teachers gain from discussing this with their students? In my book... it would be a negative one because of the way I would react as a parent. This is an issue between the teachers and the district... and hopefully it is resolved soon.

#324 popcorn

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 07:26 PM

QUOTE(tisha @ Feb 19 2007, 10:21 AM) View Post
I have a different take on this topic.
Two years ago the teachers had a choice to make when the district had a money shortage

A-increase classroom size from 20kids to 32kids for 1st through 3rd grades and lay off 80 teacher in 1st through 3rd grade.

or

B-keep classroom size at 20 kids for 1st through 3rd grades and all teachers, k - 12th grades, take a pay cut (8%).

We know today that all the teacher took the pay cut. The middle and highschool teachers knew the value of having 20 kid in 1st - 3rd grades. So for me, somebody I don't know, and may never know, took a paycut so my daughter could enjoy a reduce size classroom in 1-3rd grade. The teachers took the pay cut in good faith that their salary would return when the district received more money.

This brings us to today's dispute. The district received lots more money from the state this year. I believe that the teachers should receive their whole 8% back. But they are only asking for part of the 8%. If the district can give raises to nonteachers, and put lots of money into a website, then the district can give the teachers what the teachers want.




Tisha,
Your take is little inaccurate . Just for the record (Ms. Stanley, please confirm your recollection) the only class size reducton in question at that time was 3rd grade. IMHO that would have been taken off the table and the jobs retained even with out a pay cut. The union wanted to save other programs and added that to the mix.

Also, I read the lastest letter from the Sup. did I understand correctly that the District is offering 5.25% plus $100 additional in benefits (retro 1/07) and gave a definition of where FCUSD would place if another $100 was added 7/07..seems close to what the teachers have been asking for.



#325 tisha

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 07:30 PM

Popcorn, tessieca already corrected my numbers, see her reply shortly after my first post. tisha

#326 TM70

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 08:22 PM

QUOTE(popcorn @ Feb 19 2007, 07:26 PM) View Post
Tisha,
Your take is little inaccurate. Just for the record (Ms. Stanley, please confirm your recollection) the only class size reduction in question at that time was 3rd grade. IMHO that would have been taken off the table and the jobs retained even with out a pay cut. The union wanted to save other programs and added that to the mix.

Also, I read the latest letter from the Sup. did I understand correctly that the District is offering 5.25% plus $100 additional in benefits (retro 1/07) and gave a definition of where FCUSD would place if another $100 was added 7/07..seems close to what the teachers have been asking for.


I have looked at the numbers and I cannot make them work. It's says that assuming that the 5.25% increase has been approved and applied as a retroactive 4.65% increase and $100 to medical effective 1-1-07, then another $100 effective 7-1-07.

First, how do you apply 5.25% as a 4.65% increase and $100. Pretty much everyone has a different salary. How do add 4.65% and $100 and make it equal for everyone? You can’t do that!

Second, work with me here…

Top pay is $73,838. So that's half a year, 8-31-06 to 12-31-06 without an increase or $36,919.

Then it's half a year (1-31-07 to 5-31-07 assuming a 10 paycheck system) at an additional 4.65% with an added $100 to medical.

So that's half a year $36,919 + 4.65% or $38,636.

The medical is half the year $375 by 6 months or $2,250
and then $475 by 6 months for the other half or $2,850
total medical cap would be $5,100

Add
$36,919 2006
$38,636 2007
$5,100 medical cap

total
$75,555 salary
$5,100 medical cap


$80,655(This is for 21+ years of service)

Now, I'm not sure where the district is getting $83,595. I can't seem to get that number unless they are shifting more of the salary to 2007, but I don't know how much. Some of us are on 10 month checks and others on 12 month checks. And still others are some modified schedule from when the district was on year round schedule about 10 years ago.

Now assuming a top salary for 2006-2007 with a 4.65% increase for the entire year would be $73,838 + 4.65% or $77,271(top salary) for 2007-2008, then apply another $100 a month for medical cap

$77,271 Top salary
$6,900 medical cap

total
$84,171(top salary compensation)

Again, the district has $84,795 total for this amount. I can't seem to come out with the same numbers as the district. Even with 5.25% and $100 for 1-1-07 and an additional $100 on 7-1-07.

If you go with the 5.25% and additional on the medical you get

$73,838 + 5.25% or $77,714 + $575/mo. for medical or $6,900

Total is $84,614. The district has $84,795. Can't find the discrepancy. I'm pretty sure it is not 5.25% plus the $100 + $100 medical. It says 4.65% +$100 +$100 on the fcusd.org website.

Remember this is TOP SALARY for people who have been with the district for 21 years or more. There are not too many of them.

The other day the SBP was floating a SALARY of $80,271. This is true if a 30+ year step was added to the salary schedule.

Also, the district assumes that once a teacher earns 75 credits beyond the bachelor's degree that they stop taking coursework. The statement, "Some districts have a salary schedule with a more demanding educational requirement and/or greater years of service to reach the top."

Here's the thing...I have well over 75 units; I'm up to 129 units after the bachelors degree and I will probably continue my coursework and earn more credits over time. Also, if the district had more levels, i.e. multiple degrees, doctorates, etc...I might just go for it. I made it all the way over in about 10 years and that was it. I still take coursework, but as far as the salary schedule is concerned it doesn't mean anything. We do need professional growth hours of 30 a year over a five year period or 150 hours to renew our credentials, but any teacher who is actively taking course work will hit 150 hours very quickly. 30 hours a year is pretty standard to keep a license or credential. Here come the comments…

Oh yes, I don’t really talk about these issues with my students, wearing my “honk, honk” lime green shirt is enough and I do not want to go on strike. I have yet to speak to a teacher who wants to do this…

Phew!

#327 forumreader

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 08:37 PM

QUOTE(cw68 @ Feb 19 2007, 05:25 PM) View Post
I also agree with Jolene that teachers should not be talking about this to the students, whether or not they have the right to. Our children should not be put in the middle, nor should they be stressed about it in any way. It's the parent's position to give them this information and not the teacher's. My daughter is too young to worry about this, but if she were older and her teacher was talking about this to her, I'd be ticked off.


I absolutely agree, cw68 and Jolene!

My student is in high school, and has had four teachers discuss this matter DURING class time. In fact, I am quite amazed at how well my student is able to verbalize the teachers' stand on this matter. (He has not read this forum, yet he is able to cite the same arguments and numbers that I've read posted by teachers on this forum. This suggests that the teachers' pay matter has been discussed in detail in some of my son's classes.)

How can teachers wear lime green shirts to school every Friday and NOT expect students to notice and question? Of course our students are being put in the middle! angry.gif

On a positive note, my son reports that there seems to be less discussion in class during recent weeks. But the damage has been done. Most students have just one side of the story, and have apparently forumulated an opinion of the teachers as victims.

Is this responsible teacher behavior?

#328 DrKoz23

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 09:03 PM

QUOTE(forumreader @ Feb 19 2007, 08:37 PM) View Post
I absolutely agree, cw68 and Jolene!

My student is in high school, and has had four teachers discuss this matter DURING class time. In fact, I am quite amazed at how well my student is able to verbalize the teachers' stand on this matter. (He has not read this forum, yet he is able to cite the same arguments and numbers that I've read posted by teachers on this forum. This suggests that the teachers' pay matter has been discussed in detail in some of my son's classes.)

How can teachers wear lime green shirts to school every Friday and NOT expect students to notice and question? Of course our students are being put in the middle! angry.gif

On a positive note, my son reports that there seems to be less discussion in class during recent weeks. But the damage has been done. Most students have just one side of the story, and have apparently forumulated an opinion of the teachers as victims.

Is this responsible teacher behavior?


Just amazing. I don't know how others feel about this... but I believe this is very unethical. Students are there to learn... not discuss the negotiations between the district and the teachers. I don't see how salary negotiations are part of a lesson plan!?!? I thought biology was about science and not the amount of money a teacher should be making. Unbelievable.

This not only angers me... but it shows me just how the teachers value their students... as pawns in a game to earn some more money. Keep the negotiations between the district and the teachers. Don't drag the students into this by giving them a one-sided story!

#329 tessieca

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 10:26 AM

Some updates and comparisons are now posted. See: District's Bargaining Updates.

Orangetj, you are entirely too logical. Maybe you took courses in it??
"Sometimes on purpose and sometimes by accident, teachers' unions have a long history of working against the interests of children in the name of job security for adults. And Democrats in particular have a history of facilitating this obstructionism in exchange for campaign donations and votes." . . .Amanda Ripley re "Waiting for Superman" movie.

#330 gingerkid

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 11:24 AM

Glazing over here. So many numbers and it seems differences might be date of beginning calculation. With district's offer in any variety, at least they are not leaving teachers at the bottom like the teachers are saying.

QUOTE(jen @ Feb 19 2007, 05:44 PM) View Post
When others have tried, they are attacked personally by the teachers posting here.

Yeah, what's up with going after people who bother to respond and try to give information? It seems like you should thank a board member, not personally attack them. You keep talking about offers from a school board person, but I think any action takes a vote of at least 3, so maybe you're off track there.
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