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Sure we have the right to stand up and say things "just in case they're true". The Dufours also have a right to earn a living within the confines of the law. I think perhaps we'd both agree that the excercise of both of these rights without some degree of self-restraint is not necessarily "right".
Ms. Teaz: Lingerie Shop on Sutter Street
Started by
bordercolliefan
, Oct 12 2004 08:23 AM
749 replies to this topic
#317
elvisff
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Posted 20 October 2004 - 02:32 PM
Wow, I haven't been on here in about a week and this topic blew up to 21 pages. Holy smoke. I just wanted to say that I know that Folsom is a gold rush town, but you would think that the attitudes would have changes within the last 150 years. I have to laugh at the holier than thou attitude that people have. I would be willing to bet that a large amount of the people complaining about this shop have either looked at pornography on the internet, magazines, film, or even (dare I say it) at a strip club before. I sincerely doubt that the people who complain about this strictly have sex for the purpose of reproduction. I doubt that they have never tried games, positions, you name it, to liven their lives up a bit. If not maybe they ought to because it seems like a large amount of these folks are a tad too tense.
Also, I hope you know that by creating such an issue over this shop you are also creating a mystery to it as well. Curiousity is rising by the day and people are going to want to see this "controversial" place. I hope the place opens because with all the complaining, I think the owners will make a fortune.
This is always that thing that cracks me up about Folsom, people want to make it into the perfect little town, Duloc, for those who have seen Shrek. I laugh because they ignore the drugs, alcoholism, and violence that occurs in town on a regular basis. Just because it isn't in the paper doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. The reality is that thousands of people live and work in Folsom and have their right to have their interests represented too even if it means buying something a little kinky.
Oh yeah, the other reality is what does it really matter anyway? If business is so poor down on Sutter street and the only people who visit it are prudes, the place will close up within a couple months and others won't try to reopen one because they know that it won't survive either. Viva la Farquad!!
...By the way that is a dancing banana not a dildo so don't go getting upset.
Also, I hope you know that by creating such an issue over this shop you are also creating a mystery to it as well. Curiousity is rising by the day and people are going to want to see this "controversial" place. I hope the place opens because with all the complaining, I think the owners will make a fortune.
This is always that thing that cracks me up about Folsom, people want to make it into the perfect little town, Duloc, for those who have seen Shrek. I laugh because they ignore the drugs, alcoholism, and violence that occurs in town on a regular basis. Just because it isn't in the paper doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. The reality is that thousands of people live and work in Folsom and have their right to have their interests represented too even if it means buying something a little kinky.
Oh yeah, the other reality is what does it really matter anyway? If business is so poor down on Sutter street and the only people who visit it are prudes, the place will close up within a couple months and others won't try to reopen one because they know that it won't survive either. Viva la Farquad!!
...By the way that is a dancing banana not a dildo so don't go getting upset.
#318
elvisff
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Posted 20 October 2004 - 02:42 PM
QUOTE(tessieca @ Oct 20 2004, 02:08 PM)
Maybe call it playing the devil's advocate. Or wait, is that what the Dufours are doing?
Fanatic.
#319
Steve Heard
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Posted 20 October 2004 - 04:32 PM
Tess
You want to know why I am defending my 'new found friends'?
That is a common tactic when someone steps up to defend another from an angry mob. I guess next I'll have some one say, "Are you for us or aggin' us?!" "You keep on a' hollerin' that they're innocent, we're beginnin' ta thank maybe yer one of 'em!" "Let's get him, too!"
For the record, my list of reasons for defending the rights of the Dufour's to open a lawful business.
1) I was as concerned as any parent and community member when I heard there was a 'porno shop' or 'sex shop', or 'smut shop' as it was described, opening on Sutter Street. I did what any concerned citizen should do. I went there to see with my own eyes. I wanted to know if it was true. I met the people. I asked them. I heard their story. I saw some of their merchandise orders. I didn't take the word of anyone else who hadn't done what I did.
2) They explained to me that they had made a mistake in comparing it to a huge operation like Spartacus, which sells lots of stuff they won't be carrying.
3) I am keenly aware of how rumors and misunderstandings can lead to the destruction of careers, and lives. I come from the deep South, where in my lifetime, black men were lynched for being SUSPECTED of having relationships with white women. I know our country's history. I know of the Salem Witch Trials where women (and some men) were burned alive because someone accused them of being witches (being left handed was often a sign). I know of the McCarthy Communism Investigations, where careers were destroyed with prominent citizens such as Charlie Chaplin and Walt Disney being accused.
I know how the entire town of Rosewood FL was burned to the ground when it was suspected that a black man had a assaulted a white woman (turns out she lied to hide her affair with her white lover). These incidents can and do happen today. I'd hate to see this guy run out of town. The owners have already stepped up to say that the claims of peep shows, porno mags and tapes, books on how to rape, etc are not true, but they can't be heard above the din of the mob. The mob wants more.
4) I think it is hypocritical of the same people who are in favor of restoring Emma's Whorehouse to say that a lingerie shop is inappropriate for Sutter Street.
5) I think it's hypocritical of those who claim to want to protect the kids of our community to draw a line in the sand at the lingerie shop, while absolutely ignoring our repeated attempts to get the community involved in saving our kids lives, protecting them from drugs and alcohol.
6) I happen to think this shop will be great for Sutter street, and will bring in customers, not the kind you find at peep shows, but the kind who live next door to you, and who work along side you, and who will spend time and money in an area dying of neglect.
7) Because I was appalled at the close-minded reactions I got from some prominent members of the business community when I mentioned the place to them. They didn't want to hear that the rumors weren't true. Someone had made a point to get rid of them, and now it's as if the Dufour's have the plague. Some people in this town seem to think they have to 'go along to get along'. I don't.
8) They're products are legal and harmless. I won't be tying up my wife, or letting her tie me up anytime soon, but will defend your right to do so.
9) I sometimes stand up for the downtrodden.
10) Maybe I'll get a discount.
Those are some of my reasons.
You want to know why I am defending my 'new found friends'?
That is a common tactic when someone steps up to defend another from an angry mob. I guess next I'll have some one say, "Are you for us or aggin' us?!" "You keep on a' hollerin' that they're innocent, we're beginnin' ta thank maybe yer one of 'em!" "Let's get him, too!"
For the record, my list of reasons for defending the rights of the Dufour's to open a lawful business.
1) I was as concerned as any parent and community member when I heard there was a 'porno shop' or 'sex shop', or 'smut shop' as it was described, opening on Sutter Street. I did what any concerned citizen should do. I went there to see with my own eyes. I wanted to know if it was true. I met the people. I asked them. I heard their story. I saw some of their merchandise orders. I didn't take the word of anyone else who hadn't done what I did.
2) They explained to me that they had made a mistake in comparing it to a huge operation like Spartacus, which sells lots of stuff they won't be carrying.
3) I am keenly aware of how rumors and misunderstandings can lead to the destruction of careers, and lives. I come from the deep South, where in my lifetime, black men were lynched for being SUSPECTED of having relationships with white women. I know our country's history. I know of the Salem Witch Trials where women (and some men) were burned alive because someone accused them of being witches (being left handed was often a sign). I know of the McCarthy Communism Investigations, where careers were destroyed with prominent citizens such as Charlie Chaplin and Walt Disney being accused.
I know how the entire town of Rosewood FL was burned to the ground when it was suspected that a black man had a assaulted a white woman (turns out she lied to hide her affair with her white lover). These incidents can and do happen today. I'd hate to see this guy run out of town. The owners have already stepped up to say that the claims of peep shows, porno mags and tapes, books on how to rape, etc are not true, but they can't be heard above the din of the mob. The mob wants more.
4) I think it is hypocritical of the same people who are in favor of restoring Emma's Whorehouse to say that a lingerie shop is inappropriate for Sutter Street.
5) I think it's hypocritical of those who claim to want to protect the kids of our community to draw a line in the sand at the lingerie shop, while absolutely ignoring our repeated attempts to get the community involved in saving our kids lives, protecting them from drugs and alcohol.
6) I happen to think this shop will be great for Sutter street, and will bring in customers, not the kind you find at peep shows, but the kind who live next door to you, and who work along side you, and who will spend time and money in an area dying of neglect.
7) Because I was appalled at the close-minded reactions I got from some prominent members of the business community when I mentioned the place to them. They didn't want to hear that the rumors weren't true. Someone had made a point to get rid of them, and now it's as if the Dufour's have the plague. Some people in this town seem to think they have to 'go along to get along'. I don't.
8) They're products are legal and harmless. I won't be tying up my wife, or letting her tie me up anytime soon, but will defend your right to do so.
9) I sometimes stand up for the downtrodden.
10) Maybe I'll get a discount.
Those are some of my reasons.
Steve Heard
Folsom Real Estate Specialist
EXP Realty
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Owner - MyFolsom.com
916 718 9577
#320
jagayman
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Posted 20 October 2004 - 07:43 PM
Great points, Steve.
Although I have to plead the 5th on #8
In fact, if anyone has some good sites on Japanese Love Ropes, the information that came with mine wasn't very useful... 
-jason.
Although I have to plead the 5th on #8
In fact, if anyone has some good sites on Japanese Love Ropes, the information that came with mine wasn't very useful... -jason.
Jason Gayman
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#321
DougP
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Posted 20 October 2004 - 09:15 PM
No offense to SteveTheDad, but the more often he posts, the more often I find myself agreeing with him.
In particular on this subject, three or four people on myfolsom.com seem really bent out of shape on the topic, and keep looking for some reason to shoot down a couple who are trying to invest in our community.
To be frank, its refreshing that someone other than another antique shop, or eatery owner is willing to invest in Sutter Street.
At this point, I've seen a lot of inuendo and inferences that don't have much basis in fact. To be honest the "con" argument has pretty much been speculation and secondhand inferences.
Given that it's impossible to prove a negative, what do you expect the owners to do? If they say "we won't sell whips or chains", someone will immediately retort: "What about leather harnesses?!?!?! Won't somebody please think of the children!!!"
Regardless of what they say or what they do, someone will find fault. As a result, I'm not surprised that they've stopped communicating on this forum.
Personally, I wish them the best of luck. I can't say that me or my wife will shop there, but they certainly don't deserve the abuse that has been dished out on this forum.
In any event, the significance of capitalism is that if there is no demand for their products, they'll wither up and go away. If they thrive, I think the nay-sayers need to reevaluate their positions.
In particular on this subject, three or four people on myfolsom.com seem really bent out of shape on the topic, and keep looking for some reason to shoot down a couple who are trying to invest in our community.
To be frank, its refreshing that someone other than another antique shop, or eatery owner is willing to invest in Sutter Street.
At this point, I've seen a lot of inuendo and inferences that don't have much basis in fact. To be honest the "con" argument has pretty much been speculation and secondhand inferences.
Given that it's impossible to prove a negative, what do you expect the owners to do? If they say "we won't sell whips or chains", someone will immediately retort: "What about leather harnesses?!?!?! Won't somebody please think of the children!!!"
Regardless of what they say or what they do, someone will find fault. As a result, I'm not surprised that they've stopped communicating on this forum.
Personally, I wish them the best of luck. I can't say that me or my wife will shop there, but they certainly don't deserve the abuse that has been dished out on this forum.
In any event, the significance of capitalism is that if there is no demand for their products, they'll wither up and go away. If they thrive, I think the nay-sayers need to reevaluate their positions.
#322
Cloud9
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Posted 20 October 2004 - 09:43 PM
Elvis is right.... http://www.tomatopag...indpost&p=36091
the few with the holier than thou attitude have probably done it all... too bad we can't hook them up to a lie detector and ask a few questions.
I love all the 1 post wonders floating around this thread and how ardently some folks support those single digit posters... hmm, I wonder if they're one and the same...
Elvis, you forgot something though.... you see, many of the people that object loudly were probably wild childs, but now some have kids, and have to make believe they're the virgin Mary.... Reminds me of my own sister, once she had kids she became a born again Christian and now has a holier than thou attitude.
One of the things I remember about dating in my teens and twenties is that the young women who grew up in overly religious households were usually the wild dates.
When I got here I used to be against development in Folsom.... now I'm starting to think that every square inch of this town needs an infusion of new blood to bring people up to date from the dark ages....
Funny, I don't see people lining up at Borders protesting and you can find plenty of erotica there. Where's the outrage? You can probably pick up porn at your local supermarket - where's the outrage there?
What a bunch of hypocrites. Let me guess, you were all virgins when you got married....
the few with the holier than thou attitude have probably done it all... too bad we can't hook them up to a lie detector and ask a few questions.
I love all the 1 post wonders floating around this thread and how ardently some folks support those single digit posters... hmm, I wonder if they're one and the same...
Elvis, you forgot something though.... you see, many of the people that object loudly were probably wild childs, but now some have kids, and have to make believe they're the virgin Mary....
Reminds me of my own sister, once she had kids she became a born again Christian and now has a holier than thou attitude. One of the things I remember about dating in my teens and twenties is that the young women who grew up in overly religious households were usually the wild dates.
When I got here I used to be against development in Folsom.... now I'm starting to think that every square inch of this town needs an infusion of new blood to bring people up to date from the dark ages....
Funny, I don't see people lining up at Borders protesting and you can find plenty of erotica there. Where's the outrage? You can probably pick up porn at your local supermarket - where's the outrage there?
What a bunch of hypocrites. Let me guess, you were all virgins when you got married....
"The important thing is not to stop questioning'' | "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-- Albert Einstein--
http://folsomforum.com/
-- Albert Einstein--
http://folsomforum.com/
#323
slowthegrowth
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Posted 21 October 2004 - 07:36 AM
Let me see if I have this right....
Lynchings
Salem witch hunts
McCarthy Communist Investigations
Not willing to save kids lives from drugs/alcohol
Abusive posts
Holier than thou attitudes
Living in the dark ages
Borders = Plenty of erotica
Drug sales in Lembi park
Protesting liquor stores
Excessive speed in the streets
Just a bunch of hypocrites
...and we're complaining about a lingerie shop. Seems like it'd fit in nicely with all this... ;-(
How dare we complain when apparently our little town and it's residents are already akin to Soddom & Gemorrah?
Lynchings
Salem witch hunts
McCarthy Communist Investigations
Not willing to save kids lives from drugs/alcohol
Abusive posts
Holier than thou attitudes
Living in the dark ages
Borders = Plenty of erotica
Drug sales in Lembi park
Protesting liquor stores
Excessive speed in the streets
Just a bunch of hypocrites
...and we're complaining about a lingerie shop. Seems like it'd fit in nicely with all this... ;-(
How dare we complain when apparently our little town and it's residents are already akin to Soddom & Gemorrah?
#324
forumreader
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Posted 21 October 2004 - 07:54 AM
QUOTE(slowthegrowth @ Oct 21 2004, 07:36 AM)
Let me see if I have this right....
Lynchings
Salem witch hunts
McCarthy Communist Investigations
Not willing to save kids lives from drugs/alcohol
Abusive posts
Holier than thou attitudes
Living in the dark ages
Borders = Plenty of erotica
Drug sales in Lembi park
Protesting liquor stores
Excessive speed in the streets
Just a bunch of hypocrites
...and we're complaining about a lingerie shop. Seems like it'd fit in nicely with all this... ;-(
How dare we complain when apparently our little town and it's residents are already akin to Soddom & Gemorrah?
Lynchings
Salem witch hunts
McCarthy Communist Investigations
Not willing to save kids lives from drugs/alcohol
Abusive posts
Holier than thou attitudes
Living in the dark ages
Borders = Plenty of erotica
Drug sales in Lembi park
Protesting liquor stores
Excessive speed in the streets
Just a bunch of hypocrites
...and we're complaining about a lingerie shop. Seems like it'd fit in nicely with all this... ;-(
How dare we complain when apparently our little town and it's residents are already akin to Soddom & Gemorrah?
#325
cybertrano
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Posted 21 October 2004 - 08:00 AM
We all have rights. Some are for it, some are against it. It's all right and I tried to respect all views.
I don't have any problem with people selling lingerie.
Ok, in general if some people wants to open any kind of business in a city, they have to follow the city codes, before a business is allowed.
No more speculation, just follow the city business codes. If the city codes say "X-rated products are allowed to be sold in the city", then be it. If it says no then just follow the rules. That's all it will come down to.
I don't have any problem with people selling lingerie.
Ok, in general if some people wants to open any kind of business in a city, they have to follow the city codes, before a business is allowed.
No more speculation, just follow the city business codes. If the city codes say "X-rated products are allowed to be sold in the city", then be it. If it says no then just follow the rules. That's all it will come down to.
#326
cybertrano
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Posted 21 October 2004 - 08:06 AM
And I think it's so old when I heard so many times in this topic and some other topics, when people said something like "Well, Folsom has had this problem that problem these problems on an on and on, so why worry about a lingerie shop". My response to that is: "ok, we may have had all those problems, SO why try to bring more problem to the city. IF the lingerie shop is a potential problem"
#327
tessieca
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Posted 21 October 2004 - 08:08 AM
I've got to thank Steve for the good laughs I got out of his post. Read it 3 times with an LOL for each. Still disagree about the shop, though.
"Sometimes on purpose and sometimes by accident, teachers' unions have a long history of working against the interests of children in the name of job security for adults. And Democrats in particular have a history of facilitating this obstructionism in exchange for campaign donations and votes." . . .Amanda Ripley re "Waiting for Superman" movie.
#328
Terry
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Posted 21 October 2004 - 08:27 AM
4) I think it is hypocritical of the same people who are in favor of restoring Emma's Whorehouse to say that a lingerie shop is inappropriate for Sutter Street.
-----------------
No one's supporting the restoration of Emma's Place to its former use as a "house of ill-repute". The idea is to simply restore the historical building for use as a city resource for community activities.
Seems the issue has resolved itself according to yesterday's Telegraph (the writer wrote that the issue is "mute", although I think he/she meant "moot" - where do these people go to school!!!) inasmuch as the landlord has had the Dufours (an error by another writer in the Bee this time, who misspelled the name as "Dafour") sign a lease addendum agreeing to not display/sell "hard-core" items (wonder who defines that?).
I don't care one way or another about this shop. I predict they will fold within 6 months and it will be a moot point and then everyone will be mute about the issue. (Sorry, couldn't resist).
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No one's supporting the restoration of Emma's Place to its former use as a "house of ill-repute". The idea is to simply restore the historical building for use as a city resource for community activities.
Seems the issue has resolved itself according to yesterday's Telegraph (the writer wrote that the issue is "mute", although I think he/she meant "moot" - where do these people go to school!!!) inasmuch as the landlord has had the Dufours (an error by another writer in the Bee this time, who misspelled the name as "Dafour") sign a lease addendum agreeing to not display/sell "hard-core" items (wonder who defines that?).
I don't care one way or another about this shop. I predict they will fold within 6 months and it will be a moot point and then everyone will be mute about the issue. (Sorry, couldn't resist).
#329
Hilscher1
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Posted 21 October 2004 - 08:33 AM
I think in the end all of this will be good for the Dufours and the lingerie shop once all the people who dont know what there talking about shut up and everyone realizes that is JUST A DAMN LINGERIE SHOP. (maybe there jealous because they dont like lingerie or something.) Controversy sells in most cases so hopefully all the headaches and the hassles caused by some ignorant members will create good buisness oppurtnuitys for them in the future.
#330
Dkmarkum
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Posted 21 October 2004 - 08:36 AM
From what I understand lovefolsom "Jerry B" you were at the merchant meeting that Sam & Misty Dufour held where they reassured the merchants a number of times that there would be no items that you continually harass them about. You have no proof other than their business plan which was not a final version. It was a rough draft which they admitted at the merchant meeting which possessed very inappropriate items which they didn't intend to have in their shop. After personally talking to them and from what I have seen, all their physical inventory and purchase receipts they have, is to consist of what I term "Relationship Enhancement items for healthy balanced relationships between partners" as well as the other items that nobody seems to have issues with. Leave this family alone and out your time and energy that you seem to be exerting towards them, into your own family.
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