343 replies to this topic

[tsukiji]

This was a landmark case in nothing more than one MORE case of racial motivated hatred that turned into rage and created an opportunity to kill. There was no reason for these actions to have happened at all.

 

That man got away with murder and people want to hail this as a reason to celebrate gun rights. The morality of that logic is base.

 

 

Or........ A drug dealing hood got just rewards for his actions.

 

I'm not celebrating gun rights. From what I've seen, I'm celebrating justice served. And a potential victim lives to see another day.

[tsukiji]

Not that SYG was in play in this case -- pure self defense.

 

But. BTW, SYG is my right. I get to choose when I stand on principle vs when I should retreat. Why should you or anybody else get to choose when I can stand on principle? That's BS.

[supermom]

Im sure that Trayvon Martin felt he had a right to to it as well. 

[The Average Joe]

This was a landmark case in nothing more than one MORE case of racial motivated hatred that turned into rage and created an opportunity to kill. There was no reason for these actions to have happened at all.

 

That man got away with murder and people want to hail this as a reason to celebrate gun rights. The morality of that logic is base.

 

Again, you are fanning the racial flames with ZERO evidence. I linked the actual documents. The FBI investigated Zimmerman's neighbors and coworkers. NONE of them could provide ANY evidence that GZ was a racist or held racist beliefs.

Racially motivated hatred? Puhlease.

Most likely scenario?

After numerous break ins, GZ organizes a neighborhood watch. Several of the suspects/thieves are identified as black by multiple witnesses. Zimmerman sees an unknown black youth in his neighborhood and becomes suspicious. That is not racial hatred, it is profiling. He calls 911, and starts following TM. 911 tells him he doesn't need to do that, He is returning to his car. TM and GZ have a verbal then physical altercation. On his back getting beat GZ fears for his life and fires.

 

Bad decisions do not make for murder or racism.

GZ had several bad decisions; he followed TM too closely, got out of his car, and didn't or couldn't diffuse the situation when TM came back.

TM made several bad decisions; he embraced the thug culture, he didn't leave or call 911 when he was being followed, he returned, and he assaulted GZ.

I'll repeat, bad decisions do not constitute murder or racism.

 

All physical evidence corroborates the GZ version of events, that is why GZ wasn't charged originally.

 

When you can provide a SHRED of evidence for your irresponsible claims, I will be happy to look at them.

[The Average Joe]

Im sure that Trayvon Martin felt he had a right to to it as well. 

 

Travon wasn't being assaulted.

[nomad]

This was a landmark case in nothing more than one MORE case of racial motivated hatred that turned into rage and created an opportunity to kill. There was no reason for these actions to have happened at all.

 

That man got away with murder and people want to hail this as a reason to celebrate gun rights. The morality of that logic is base.

 

The kid was a thug and lived the gangsta life. All you can see is that photo of the 10 yr old the media kept selling. You see his dope plants? his texts about robbery and fighting? His own Mom kicked him out. 

 

Moral of the story is: Don't bring skittles to a gun fight.

[supermom]

I never looked at pictures of the kid. seemed irrelevant. 

Also irrelevant that the kid may have previously sold dope (didn't you say dope should be legalized?)

 

What is relevant is that this kid did not initiate nor encourage the fight. It was entirely legal for him to transport through that housing area and any further actions to detain him or engage him were immoral and reeked of racism. 

 

This was an assassination. 

 

Its ok if you don't agree with me. I don't expect you to. I merely have my own belief.

 

However, do stop making accusations or derogatory statements toward for my belief. It demeans you, not me.

[The Average Joe]

Your belief is not founded in fact. You find racism where there is no evidence of such, and cannot comprehend that TM was the one doing the engaging. His fists on GZs face. No evidence whatsoever that GZ attacked TM in any way.

 

Nothing derogatory towards you. Only trying to educate you so that you can make an informed decision, and prevent misinformation from spreading.

[tsukiji]

Supermom, only GZ really knows what went down. That being said, it seems that the testimony and evidence provided during the trial supports his account (at least more than it doesn't).

 

The MSM has presented TM as a kid; and I assert that that is based loosely on some legal concepts about the magic of being 18. He was 5'11", 160 lbs. Regardless of age, he had the capability to do some damage. TM had demonstrated all the elements necessary for self defense: ability, opportunity and intent (remember, he was in fact battering GZ). There is no evidence I've seen that puts TM in a defensive position, only GZ.

 

So all that is being asked is that you present evidence to the contrary. No suppositions, no beliefs. Just evidence in fact. Derogatory statements are not aimed directly at you. But you are behaving biased.

[nomad]

I never looked at pictures of the kid. seemed irrelevant. 

Also irrelevant that the kid may have previously sold dope (didn't you say dope should be legalized?)

 

What is relevant is that this kid did not initiate nor encourage the fight. It was entirely legal for him to transport through that housing area and any further actions to detain him or engage him were immoral and reeked of racism. 

 

This was an assassination. 

 

Its ok if you don't agree with me. I don't expect you to. I merely have my own belief.

 

However, do stop making accusations or derogatory statements toward for my belief. It demeans you, not me.

 

Really? Never look at pictures of the kid? They were everywhere. You said you saw pics of the dead Sandy Hook kids too that nobody else ever did but anyways....

 

Nope not me about the dope thing, don't do it and don't want it legal. Tells me something about the kid and his habits though.

 

i said nothing derogatory about you or your opinions. I think you are way off in left field but I think that's where you are most comfortable.

 

The trial was a farce, fueled by the MSM. The witnesses were, at best a joke. Now people rioting all over the place. I guess the only solution is to undo the decision by the jury and hang the guy in the streets?

[tsukiji]

It might be considered ironic that the people supporting this 'innocent kid' result to illegal acts of violence to voice their opinion. 

[slowthegrowth]

I was on a jury 3 years ago for an attempted murder case that happened in fair oaks. The defendant was coming out of a bar when a drunk who had a history with him jumped him, pushed him up against a wall and eventually ended up clutching each other on the ground...basically so neither had room to swing punches at each other.
The defendant, who did not instigate the fight and was on the bottom, took out a knife and stabbed the attacker in the chest.
After thoroughly reading the law we found him guilty of attempted manslaughter due to "imperfect self defense". While the defendant may have thought he needed the knife to defend himself, the fight never escalated to that level. No real punches were thrown or connected, they were in a clinch on the ground. There was no reason to pull out the knife much less stab the attacker in the chest (near his heart).

The reason my case was different is that no reasonable person would think their life was in danger or subject to great bodily harm at that moment.

Zimmerman was punched in the nose, on his back having his head slammed into cement repeatedly. If you've ever hit your head on cement even once, you may already be getting dizzy. He perceived at that moment that his life was in danger and he defended himself.

That is why he was acquitted. Not because Trayvon was a thug or a great kid but because he ™ was beating the hell out of GZ.

Mom: does trayvon have any responsibility for what happened to him?

Here's what should have happened:

TM: hey, why are you following me?
GZ: there have been a bunch of robberies around here and I'm helping watch out for my neighbors.
TM: oh...I'm just heading back to my dads place after going to the store.
GZ: great! Have a good evening!
TM: Thanks for watching out for us!

Why did TZ choose to fight instead of talking? His recent history shows a young man that wants to be a gangsta, doesn't mind proving his toughness by fighting and wasn't about to let a smaller "crazy arse cracker" think he was going to intimidate...or even follow him

Pride goeth before the fall.

[bordercolliefan]

I agree with the analysis provided by Average Joe, slowthegrowth, and others above. 

 

I do acknowledge that Zimmerman's initial feeling of suspicion toward Trayvon had a racist element.  Unfortunately, we all "profile" to some extent when we see someone or something that looks out of place.  It is human nature, and often is based on things we've heard or read.  Zimmerman saw Trayvon and immediately thought of the burglaries he'd heard about that were reportedly committed by young black men.  That wasn't fair to Trayvon, and yes, it stinks to be stereotyped.  But I defy anyone to claim they've never stereotyped anyone on the basis of their appearance.  It's just something we do automatically.  As a middle-aged white lady, you bet I'm stereotyped all the time.   

 

What I'm most sad about is the way this has devolved into "sides."  Some people are painting it as: either you are on "black people's side" or you are against them.  I feel like some of my black friends on Facebook are not looking objectively at the evidence presented to the jury, but are instead saying that anyone who agrees with the verdict is by definition a racist hater.  And, as pointed out above, this is often supported by non-facts such as that Trayvon was an "innocent child"; Zimmerman attacked Trayvon (possible, but there was no evidence of that as required for criminal prosecution, etc.)  Even the description of Zimmerman as white when, both by heritage and appearance, he was a minority himself, was very misleading.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised... we stopped being a nation devoted to facts and evidence long ago.     

[tsukiji]

What I'm 'sad' about is that people don't understand the root of the problem. The issue isn't guns. It isn't about SYG laws (which doesn't apply to this case). It isn't about self defense laws (which clearly applies here wrt opportunity, intent and ability).

 

The NAACP asserts that this wouldn't have happened w/out profiling, SYG laws and guns.

 

It's a more reasonable assertion that this wouldn't have happened if criminals didn't exist, if drug users / dealers didn't exist, if theft didn't exist (precipitating a need for neighborhood watch).

 

I believe even the poll on MSNBC (which of course is more aligned with gun control and less conservative attitudes) indicated that more than 2/3's of respondents believe that the correct verdict was reached. On MSNBC!

[TruthSeeker]

17 years old is NOT a boys age.

Why is the president pushing racism with this case?

It's obvious with the White House manipulating the press and financing protests most democratic voters automatically believe self defense is evil and anyone who is not black and defends themself is a racist murderer.