537 replies to this topic

[bordercolliefan]

I think my concerns are "gelling" into another concern. This follows up on a point that Tessieca has made.

It would be folly to suggest that the threat of terrorism is a figment of our imagination. Lodi... Lackawanna... these incidents prove that even in the most mundane, "heartland" locations, we can be vulnerable to people plotting against us. As an aside, I know of an FBI agent who spends all his days following suspected terrorists around one of our country's "second-tier" cities; evidently, there is no shortage of them to follow.

At the same time, America stands for religious freedom and tolerance, and our neighbors who are Muslim have a right to worship just as anyone else does.

So, how do these two concerns intersect with regard to the Folsom mosque project? --When I see the large scale of the project and hear that it will encompass an elementary school as well as a library, it seems obvious that the intent is not just to provide a place for Folsom's Muslims to worship, but to create a kind of "Muslim center" for the region. --Now, it becomes much less clear who might be coming to Folsom to hang out at the mosque. Indeed, we might assume that with its (presumably) traditional Islamic school and traditional architecture, it may attract some of the region's most conservative Muslims, maybe some who, like the Muslims in Britain, are so disaffected and hostile toward the society they live in.

There, I've said it. My fear is not so much the Muslims who are already here -- who work beside my husband at Intel and play on the playground with my children at elementary school. They are welcome here; they are welcome in my home. My greater fear is fear of the unknown... who will be coming (perhaps from far afield) to worship in the area's ONLY traditional mosque and to educate their children at a traditional Islamic school...

How can the leaders of the mosque project assure us that the mosque will not, over time, spiral out of their control and into much more conservative and/or anti-American hands??

[kevster]

Just Wait till thry open Light Rail in October, as if is not scary enough knowing lots of peeps from South Sac are going to flooding into our town, now lots of Muslims from So Sac are going to riding up to this place.

not to be a hater, but its no secret that south sac has lots of gangs and radical people. I am going to move this is the last straw, we all might as well bail and beat the certain fall of all our property values!

[CostcoLover]

To fear what the mosque will bring, is to me, an admission that the terrorists have won in changing America's foundation.

In deciding, for or against, I simply asked myself, "As an American, would I have feared the building of the mosque if 9/11 and other terrorist acts had never occurred?"

If no, and I were to object today, then terrorism has changed the foundation of America, and the terrorists have won (at least for now).

Build the mosque, even if it means a few terrorists may come for each of the 99 that are not terrorists and want to worship their faith. Our battle is with the few, not the many. Be a proud American, stand tall, don't let fear or the terrorists win.

Terrorist attacks can shake the foundations of our biggest buildings, but they cannot touch the foundation of America. These acts shatter steel, but they cannot dent the steel of American resolve.
--George W. Bush Address to the US after hijack attacks on the US World Trade Centers and Pentagon, September 11, 2001


All attempts to destroy democracy by terrorism will fail. It must be business as usual
--Margaret Thatcher

[bordercolliefan]

Build the mosque, even if it means a few terrorists may come for each of the 99 that are not terrorists and want to worship their faith.  Our battle is with the few, not the many.  Be a proud American, stand tall, don't let fear or the terrorists win.

Terrorist attacks can shake the foundations of our biggest buildings, but they cannot touch the foundation of America. These acts shatter steel, but they cannot dent the steel of American resolve.
--George W. Bush Address to the US after hijack attacks on the US World Trade Centers and Pentagon, September 11, 2001
All attempts to destroy democracy by terrorism will fail. It must be business as usual
--Margaret Thatcher

Those are powerful words, Costco, but what do they really mean?

Have the criminals "won" because I lock my doors at night?

Have the rapists "won" because I don't walk alone at night?

At what point do reasonable fears and precautions become "letting the bad guys win?"

[bishmasterb]

Those are powerful words, Costco, but what do they really mean? 

Have the criminals "won" because I lock my doors at night? 

Have the rapists "won" because I don't walk alone at night? 

What if the government prevented you from ever walking at night because you might get raped, but let men walk freely at night since men statistically are not at risk of rape?

At what point do reasonable fears and precautions become "letting the bad guys win?"

When force is used to prevent peaceful people from doing peaceful things, then fears and precautions have become unreasonable.

You locking your doors or not walking alone at night, are peacful, non-forceful actions that you pursue voluntarily in order to avoid trouble.

On the other hand, putting up coercive barriers to a peaceful organization who simply wishes to build a house of worship is an initiation of force.

[DrKoz23]

Just Wait till thry open Light Rail in October, as if is not scary enough knowing lots of peeps from South Sac are going to flooding into our town, now lots of Muslims from So Sac are going to riding up to this place.   

not to be a hater, but its no secret that south sac has lots of gangs and radical people.  I am going to move this is the last straw, we all might as well bail and beat the certain fall of all our property values!       

Yes... criminals only live in South Sacramento... Folsom is a bubble community where nothing bad ever happens. Yes... criminals only ride light rail to commit their crimes... I see so many of them carrying their stolen goods on the trains. Yes... all muslims are criminals... there is no person of another race/religion that has committed a crime.

Your thinking is very scary. And everyone who believes these statments should consider their thoughts very scary. Its a mosque that will add to this city's diversity. Its architecture that will give this city some character (not like a new Costco or Sam's Club that are ugly monstrosities). Maybe those of you who are so against this project should really look within at your own ignorance. Your type of thinking is what caused the US to set up interment camps during WW2 for the Japanese-Americans.

[Orangetj]

Yes... criminals only live in South Sacramento... Folsom is a bubble community where nothing bad ever happens.  Yes... criminals only ride light rail to commit their crimes... I see so many of them carrying their stolen goods on the trains.  Yes... all muslims are criminals... there is no person of another race/religion that has committed a crime.

Weeellll, having lived right at the border of a pretty tough part of town (Oak Park), I feel very confident in saying that there is definitely a much more visible/active criminal element in that part of town than there is here in Folsom. We heard gunfire almost daily when we lived there. Car chases, circling helicopters, shouting people, fist fights on street corners, prostitutes walking the streets, virtually ANYTHING left outside for more than a few hours being stolen; these are all things we witnessed/experienced there but have not seen here. This is not to imply that I think all people who live in the south area are criminals, because they are not. This is also not to imply that I think all of these bad people are suddenly going to jump on light rail to Folsom to terrorize the city.

I'm not opposed to the Mosque. In fact, I welcome it. I would be opposed to a primary school with lots of students at that location simply because we already have too much traffic on Sibley and a school would just make that worse every day.

[folsom500]

Let me see-
Most of the Muslims now attending services in Folsom are from Intel.
Most of the Muslims now attending services in Folsom are from India and Pakistan.
Most of the Muslims now attending services in Folsom are middle to upper middle class
Most of the Muslims now attending services in Folsom are hard working families interested in their homes, neighborhoods, Schools etc,.
Most of the Muslims now attending services in Folsom are Americans or want to be soon.
Most of the Muslims children now attending services in Folsom are at or above average students in all grade levels
Most of the Muslims now attending services in Folsom OWN their homes IN folsom and surrounding areas.
Most of the Mulims now attending services in Folsom have the lowest crime rate within the city and surrounding area.
Most of the Muslims now attending services in Folsom are as good or better families than most of the WHITES.
Most of the Muslims now attending services in Folsom should not be spat upon in this forum nor feared for rediculous reasons as so many of the Forum members do ...

Your fears are unfounded and border on racism ... if they are not already so ...

Traffic is not an issue, these people are not an issue.. it is only YOU that are the issue with your fears , hate and predudices that ARE the issue...

Think about it ---


Cheers
F500

[Orangetj]

Was that aimed at me? If so, I don't deserve it. I welcome the Mosque and have no concerns about it whatsoever. I have no fear of Muslims in general or any other religious believers for that matter.

I don't really want a primary school located on Sibley, but I don't get the feeling it would be a school with hundreds of students anyway. If it were a school with a sizable student body, the associated additional vehicular traffic it would bring IS an issue to me and probably many of the other people who live along or near Sibley (reference the old threads on Sibley street traffic). That would be a concern to me if it were a public school, Catholic school, Christian School, or any type of school for that matter.

[folsom500]

Was that aimed at me? If so, I don't deserve it. I welcome the Mosque and have no concerns about it whatsoever. I have no fear of Muslims in general or any other religious believers for that matter.

Orange-- NO it was NOT aimed at you - sorry if it seemed that way-
It was aimed at others less tolerant and more predjudiced
Cheers
F500

[john]

this topic has been merged with 2 others, feel free to continue discussion...

[Orangetj]

Thanks for clarifying, Folsom 500.

[CostcoLover]

At what point do reasonable fears and precautions become "letting the bad guys win?"

When you exclude or prevent the majority of the peaceful Muslims who wish to practice their religion from doing so in a mosque they built for themselves because terrorists might attend the mosque.

I for one, do not believe that you are a racist or have any sort of prejudice towards Muslims, but simply have what you believe to be a 'reasonable' fear.

So I ask you, if 9/11 and other terrorists acts against America and Americans had never happened, would you fear the building of the mosque?

[LexHillsmom]

There are two other Islamic centers in the Sacramento area that I know of - one in Carmichael and one in South Sacramento. Both have elementary thru middle school grade levels. I seriously doubt the Folsom mosque elementary school is going to bring congestion to our town.

As far as worrying about the Folsom mosque attracting extremists I don't. Extremists attend mosques where extremism is preached and validated. I doubt this is the case with Mr. Siddique. I hope all of you that are so concerned will meet with him and discuss your concerns.

I wonder if any of those that are worried about this mosque know any Muslims personally? The Muslims I know are good, upstanding citizens who denounce terrorism and demonstrate solid and admirable values. I feel badly when I think of how many of them must feel knowing their dream of a place of worship has turned into such an ugly debate.

The architecture doesn't fit in? It's unFolsom? So, since we're 99% white do we view our African American/Indian/whatever neighbors with the same attitude?

[bordercolliefan]

So I ask you, if 9/11 and other terrorists acts against America and Americans had never happened, would you fear the building of the mosque?

No, but 9/11 DID happen, so of what relevance is it to hypothesize that it did not??

My experience has been one of at first, believing that the terrorist threat was just a few nut-cases (i.e., the 9/11 hijackers), to doing more and more reading and realizing that this is a real threat, and more extensive than many of us at first believed.

It doesn't help one's peace of mind when every few weeks, there is a new revelation about a terrorist cell in some nondescript town in America... when with similar frequency, I read opinion pieces by noted Muslims stating that too many Muslims are ambivalent (at best) about terrorism... when two Intel workers get arrested and confess to terrorist conspiracy.

This is an easy issue if you are willing to put your head in the sand; not easy if you are not.