380 replies to this topic

[waterbaby149]

Bordercolliefan
I remember my own daughter's excitement and anticipation of books in her youth, and even today at 18 she is an avid reader, as I am. I like nothing better but to get lost in a bookstore, used or new.
In my line of work, though research is a necessity, and we have come to a time when it is done on line - not to negate a library - but the Folsom Friends of the Library need to understand the ability to support the library - not a taj mal building. The Placer County Law Library, while not placed in a fancy building, has the state of the art equipment, and current up to date materials. Isn't that more important than a grandous building of 24,000 sq.ft, and at a preliminary cost of 9.9 million.
As a member of Save the Park - I state as has been stated before, we are not against a library, we are against the selected location, and as more and more research is done we find the selection of this location as a manipulation on the park of such people as Ernie Sheldon, Gail Kipp, Linda Holderness, and members of the CC for their desire for a monument to themselves - I again today submitted an objection in writing to the initial amended study. The City of Folsom continues to ignore the remediation requiresments of the entire bal filed as set forth by CEQA. The Negative Declaration - amended on June 16, 2004, is available to the Public at the Public Works Department at City Hall in Folsom. I encourage those interested to obtain a copy and read it. In particular pages 33 and 34, with regard to the CEQA requirements. A reading of this document clearly sets forth that the building of the library in Marshall Farley Field is a violation of the definition by CEQA of a historial resource.
The City Council meeting on this issue is presently scheduled for July 27th. I encourage all citizens of Folsom to attend, listen and voice their opinion on this subject.
The final date for submission of the Petition by Save the Park is July 20th - and the mere handful of discontents referred to by the Friends of the Library consists of over 2,500 signatures at the present time.
If you wish to sign, see my previous postings as to locations.
Your desire to vote on this issue is your constitutional right under the 2nd Amendment - remember that when the Friends of the Library tell you not to sign the Petition.
Thank you for your time in reading and inquiring on this subject.

[forumreader]

QUOTE (Steve @ Jul 7 2004, 07:58 PM)

Regarding students being able to read books ... schools have libraries and books that are required by teachers are typically purchased. Also ... with the new monitors, electronic notebooks, and other new technology coming available you can read online versions of books.

Regarding school libraries....Have you been keeping track of recent FCUSD budget issues? The libraries and library staff will be living with significant cut-backs next year.

I am not devaluing school libraries. They also serve an important role. Yet I can't say how many times my son has come home from school begging me to take him to the public library. Often the school library does not have books available that interest him for recreational reading, and there are only limited books available on any given subject. For example, when 30+ kids are all doing projects on Egypt, pyramids and mummies, there will not be a book at the school library for each of the kids.

School libraries also have a circulation problem. (And this is understandable considering the limited staffing.) At my son's school students can only check out one book at a time, unless they earned a special privelege (GPA reward, citizenship). On top of that, a student conceivably could keep a library book at home during the whole trimester. Often only the threat of not receiving your report card at the end of the grading period brings the books back into the library. In a small school library that can create a book circulation problem.

It was also mentioned that teachers can purchase/supply books to students for assigned reading.....How do you think California got to its notable rank as 50th in the nation on many educational evaluations?....Could it be that most kids in the state are only reading the bare minimum? Supplying students books to fulfill the Calif. Content Standards is just a starting point. We should be focusing on excellence. (A library appropriate to the size and needs of our community would help.)

Our kids need to be inside libraries and enjoying them. They need to touch books, not just keyboards. They need semi-quiet and comfortable work areas. They need to have a pleasant place to enjoy a variety of educational activities. (Have you recently been inside Folsom library's *Community Room*? It's about the size of my living room, and about a third of it is being used for needed library storage. The library thankfully squeezes in a few activities such as Storytime. But, the Community Room is no longer open to community groups for educational events!)

A library is more that a repository for research material. It is a place to embrace and enjoy learning in its many forms.

I spoke primarily of kids. However, let's not forget that learning is a life-long activity. A library, such as the one planned for Folsom, can benefit the entire community. It is long over-due.

[Steve]

QUOTE (forumreader @ Jul 8 2004, 06:54 AM)

.....How do you think California got to its notable rank as 50th in the nation on many educational evaluations?....Could it be that most kids in the state are only reading the bare minimum?  Supplying students books to fulfill the Calif. Content Standards is just a starting point.  We should be focusing on excellence.  (A library appropriate to the size and needs of our community would help.)

For those of you who believe that we should continue to build $8 - $10 million dollar buildings to store books I would like to point you to a news article that appeared on the web today! You can read the entire story on Yahoo!

... The reading of books is on the decline in America, despite Harry Potter (news - web sites) and the best efforts of Oprah Winfrey. A report released Thursday by the National Endowment for the Arts says the number of non-reading adults increased by more than 17 million between 1992 and 2002. ...

I ask you this! Who's going to be visiting these expensive book storage facilities?

[bordercolliefan]

Have you been to the Folsom library lately?

I can tell you that at almost any time of day, the tiny children's section is abuzz (often crowded) with several moms and their numerous children.

Whenever I am there, the door to the library opens and closes constantly with people coming in and out. Many of these people are senior citizens, who obviously get a lot of enjoyment from it.

Generally there are a dozen or more people in the small reading rooms, looking at magazines or reference materials.

As for the children's story hour, we stopped going because it is always too crowded, with hardly any room to sit down.

The question is not WHO will use the library. The question is HOW MANY MORE will use the library when it is expanded to accomodate them.

[forumreader]

QUOTE (bordercolliefan @ Jul 8 2004, 09:06 AM)

The question is not WHO will use the library. The question is HOW MANY MORE will use the library when it is expanded to accomodate them.

Agree 100%, bordercollie!!! -- (In fact we just got back from a very overly crowded storytime. Fun, but I'm also wondering if we will go again next week. SRO!)

If you go to the library during the school year after 2:00 or on weekends you will find an equally, and wonderfully busy little building. It is encouraging to see.

Let's raise the literacy bar, not lower it. If kids and adults are not reading as much as they used to, let's make it easier and more enjoyable for them to do so. Let's give our community the incentive to shut off the TV and get lost in a book.

60%-75% of Americans are overweight. But have we stopped building parks, pools and sports complexes? No. All the more reason to build facilities to provide the opportunity for exercise.

Likewise, unimpressive standardized test scores and declining literacy should be incentives to build libraries sufficient to offer reading and educational opportunites to the community.

A library is more than a book repository. It is a place for a community to embrace learning.

[melloguy]

QUOTE (Steve @ Jul 8 2004, 07:13 AM)

I ask you this! Who's going to be visiting these expensive book storage facilities?

Last time I checked, that overworked, undersized facility we refer to as a library on Persifer Street was having over 20,000 visits per month with a circulation of about 25,000 per month. And if you'd bother to step into any modern library, you might notice that there is usually a large bank of computers available for public use. Folsom's are in constant use.

Libraries are just not "expensive book storage facilities." Try visiting a new one in a neighboring city and see what you will be getting with your tax dollars.

[Steve]

QUOTE (forumreader @ Jul 8 2004, 10:57 AM)

Likewise, unimpressive standardized test scores and declining literacy should be incentives to build libraries sufficient to offer reading and educational opportunites to the community.

Education expenditures rose to an estimated high of $745 billion in the 2001-02 school year. Elementary and secondary schools spent about 61 percent of this total, and colleges and universities accounted for the remaining 39 percent. Elementary and secondary schools and colleges and universities spent an estimated 7.4 percent of the gross domestic product in 2001-02.

The expenditure per student in public schools rose during the late 1980s, and again in the late 1990s after remaining stable during the first part of the 1990s. Between 1985-86 and 1990-91, current expenditures per student in fall enrollment grew 14 percent, after adjustment for inflation. From 1990-91 to 1995-96, expenditures per student increased by less than 1 percent. Between 1995-96 and 2000-02 expenditure per student in fall enrollment rose 15 percent to $7,524.

Most would agree that throwing more money around and building more libraries is not going to solve the declining literacy and low test score problems. A significant part of the solution to this problem is personal responsibility and accountability in addition to getting the unions out of the school system ...

[forumreader]

Steve, it sounds like you and I are probably in agreement about the topic of $$$ and the public education system. The problems with the public ed. system are deep and complicated. -- A discussion for another thread.

My attempt at drawing the analogy of overweight Americans/ample parks & sports complexes, and declining literacy and test scores/ sufficient libraries was probably poor. My point is simply that eventhough a few surveys state that adult Americans read less, student test scores are too low, and the internet is becoming an increasingly important resource, there are still very important reasons to build and maintain sufficient and even generous community libraries.

The electronic age has put much information immediately at our fingertips. This is great. But it is not enough.

[waterbaby149]

Save the Park agrees with forumreader - we do need a library - but there is plenty of space elsewhere - it should not be built at the expense of open green space - a review of the amended initial report indicates now the loss of oak trees - I believe it is something like about 16 trees - oh great plant new ones - when will those trees become full grown like the existing trees -NOT
we have the old firestation - use it -it can be taken down, remodeled, or enlarged - and why not incorporate a senior center and arts and crafts in that - in the existing plan they are having meeting rooms, coffee shop and fireplace
really why not take a bit of that money for the inside

[Candy Apple]

Waterbaby and others have repeated many times that "the library can be built elsewhere"-------but they never say WHERE!!! Is anyone donating land?

The reasons for not using the old fire station building have been repeated many times.

Where are these 16 oak trees mentioned-------If they are growing in the Marshall Farley ball field, I haven't noticed, and that is the chosen site of the library.

Most people who have ever made use of a library can tell non-fiction from fiction. I believe most of this Forum's readers and most of the citizens of Folsom recognize the difference.

[bordercolliefan]

Steve,

Are the figures you cited for per pupil spending for the state of California, or are they a national average?

I believe California has one of the lowest per-pupil spending rates in the nation.

Also, the fact that per pupil spending is increasing doesn't necessarily mean that spending is keeping pace with need. Autism and ADD diagnoses has skyrocketed in the last decade. These kids are now entitled by law to an individualized instruction program which often requires a 1:1 instructional ratio -- i.e., a personal aide! That's expensive!! Then there are the vast sums that must be devoted to ESL. I shudder to think how miniscule spending on an average, non-special needs pupil in California has become.

[Steve]

QUOTE (Candy Apple @ Jul 8 2004, 02:19 PM)

Waterbaby and others have repeated many times that "the library can be built elsewhere"-------but they never say WHERE!!!  Is anyone donating land?

I am more opposed to the proposed construction of a City Gym than I am to a library. On the topic of the City Gym I once suggested to Eric King that if the City moves forward with the library, they should place the library on the site of the proposed City Gym and save the taxpayers the cost of building this memorial to Steve Miklos ..

Although just a thought .. I doubt that the proposed library will fit on the site of the proposed City Gym. These buildings probably don't have the same foot print!

[waterbaby149]

Betty, Linda, Rhonda, and all the rest of you library people:

I have a question for you and I am sure if the truth be known would interest the people of folsom

how many grants and/or bonds has the library commission i.e. city of folsom applied for in the building of the library??

And if they were applied for, what were they called, what was the result??

And if not applied for - why not???

Was or has any governmental assistance been applied for in the seeking of funds to build the library (u know that 9.9 million dollar Taj Mall)

Has or was and I believe it is called LSI or LSA grants been sought???

And if so what is the result and if not, why not???

It is my understanding that the Sacramento County Library has at least 3 of those grants applied for at the present and is seeking a response.


Your answer please

[camay2327]

I think that when the city council, vice one member, decided all of a sudden to not build at the old fire station and to build in the city park, they did not put in for the grants. They were going to but think they decided not to after the change.

[waterbaby149]

So Camay - u and I get to pay for the library due to the cc failure to act in our best interests???!!!

I agree this is like hitting your head against .....